Joel, for me being spiritual bankrupt was about the results of lack of connection to a higher power. Spiritual awakening was about getting that connection. When I took steps 2 and 3 I was being asked to believe or be willing to believe in a power that could solve my problem and in persuing a course of action which would connect me to that power. It didnt mean I had to be connected there and then, just willing to do what it took to get connected, ie remove the blockages and place myself on a spiritual foooting through steps 4 - 9. I started to have a spiritual awakening when I "took" step 3 but I did not feel or have a true connection or awakening until after I had done step 9.

Regarding the slogans. When explained and understood properly they all have meaning to me and can be useful (apart from think, think, think - i dont get that one at all!). However I have often seen them twisted and used as a cop out either in terms of taking action oneself or in helping others.

Joel, in direct answer to your question in #15, from fully conceding Step 1, I knew that by my own thinking, coping strategies and will I was not able to fix anything and that I was doomed to drink again. I acknowledged that somehow my mind was delusional with regard to alcohol. So it absolutely had to be a higher power of some kind (just not myself!) that could help me. I was willing to believe. That was Step 2. In Step 3 I made a decision to turn my life and my will over to God to see if He was willing to help me. I had nowhere else to go. Nothing had worked. It was a leap of faith. By Step 5 I knew He was there with me, guiding me and all I had to do was ask.

I like the slogans Joel. I couldn't focus on much in early sobriety, but there were moments, I just looked at a couple of the slogans and focused on them. Now I use a few of my own. CM xxx

"We needed to ask ourselves but one short question. 'Do I now believe, or am I even willing to believe there is a Power greater than myself?' As soon as a man can say he does believe, or is willing to believe, we emphatically assure him [he has completed Step Two and] is on his way." (page 47)

And notice: That only says "(willing to) believe there is", not actually "believe in"!

To get started, we only need to believe He exists, and our book is full of evidence of that:

"When many hundreds of people are able to say that the consciousness of the Presence of God is today the most important fact of their lives, they present a powerful reason why one should have faith [in the simple idea that He exists]."

I know of people who have (after some preparation) taken all steps over a weekend. There is no reason why not, so long as the preparation is put in.

If we accept that no human power could relieve our alcoholism why the hell would be be prevaricating about getting through the other steps?? Telling newcomers it's not a race etc etc seem not to have grasped that this is indeed a matter of life and death. People that have fully accepted Step 1 will have your arm off to get the steps done so that they can get to God/Hp as soon as possible - this finally releases them from the tyranny of alcohol and has them ready to go work with others!

BTW I don't like the slogans either!!

>> If you're spiritually bankrupt how to you take steps two and three without a spiritual awakening??

Hopefully that has been made clear by now ...

On a simple willingness *to* believe at all, we take the rest of the Steps and the awakening happens as the result of doing that:

"12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these [twelve] steps ..." (page 60)

Step two doesn't say "became willing" It says "Came to believe" So which is correct the book or the actual step?

As for "taking all the steps in a weekend " Come on ? These are life changing events and choices. How could that have any meaning??

Even though I ocassionally question things I'm still a "real alcoholic" Or am I?? Perhaps I spent years suffering not because I suffer a loss of control over alcohol, but simply to be eligible for my true compulsion: An over powering desire to hang out in church basements? LOL

>> Step two doesn't say "became willing" It says "Came to believe" So which is correct the book or the actual step?

I used to wonder the same thing until someone explained the Steps should be taken from the book and not off the wall ... and here is why that is so:

I believe it is in the Foreword to the 12&12 where we can find a report that the "program of action" (Second Edition, page 292, I believe) was codified into the Twelve Steps when the Big Book was written. So then, "Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity" must be decoded, and that can happen largely by reading Chapter Four.

Oops. Try 292 in the Third Edition for an earlier version of our Steps:

1) Complete deflation
2) Dependence and guidance from a Higher Power
3) Moral Inventory
4) Confession
5) Restitution
6) Continued work with other alcoholics

And on that same page, the author of that story says he and Dr. Bob "spent three or four hours formally going through the Six-Step program as it was at that time."

"I don't want to argue but how can you possibly EFFECTIVELY take 7 or 8 steps in a week? What's this drive through spirituality? On demand spiritual awakenings. Insight and working through denial take time!"

Thats a subject that calls for a new thread of it's own. Not that I think the steps should be done in week under ordinary circumstances but Dr. Bob and Clarence Snyder used to do it in as little as a weekend for those traveling from far away to get sponsored. They had some pretty good results with it . Both claimed to have sponsored over 5,000 with over 50 % staying sober.

IMO the steps should be done about 1 a week except 9 which can take a life-time.

My point is 1 in 20 that we don't have to travel around the country to get sober anymore. So we don't have to track meet through the steps. I don't feel you can put a "1 a week " tag on it either. It will vary and may take months or even years for some

>> My point is 1 in 20 that we don't have to travel around the country to get sober anymore.

Are you sure? If so, why all the online activity? From my seat here in a town full of BSAA, I see people, including myself, "traveling" great distances both to help and to be helped.

>> So we don't have to track meet through the steps.

That is either a misunderstanding or misrepresentation of the actual experience being discussed. The idea there was simply to get the basic principles conveyed, and to then continue helping each other grow.

>> I don't feel you can put a "1 a week " tag on it either. It will vary and may take months or even years for some.

The Steps are simply taken one right after another at whatever pace is necessary and tolerable.

I love the slogans....once I understood the concept and they were properly explained to me. At first I didn't understand at all. It appears as though it's another geographical difference...I find that so interesting.

I don't see "easy does it" as meaning "do nothing" at all. I think we tend to want what someone who has 10 years in recovery has from the get go. The minute we "get it" (meaning-understanding the problem & the solution) we want it now! now! now! But you can't obtain what is learned & experienced in 10 years of recovery in one weekend of sobriety. I'm not sure how you could do a "searching and fearless" moral inventory in a matter of minutes or even hours.

The definition of searching is to go or look through (a place, area, etc.) carefully in order to find something missing or lost: or to explore or examine in order to discover.

How can you look "carefully" look at something or "explore" & retain anything in such a short period of time? My mind is not that sharp....it takes me a bit to figure things out.

Well said Holycrap. When i first came in to the program was my attention span was like "My name is Joel and look a shiny object"!
We're taliking about people in withdrawal, post acute withdrawal and general turmoil. The slogans helped me focus a little and still do.