aa Spoken Here Community Group

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Gr8ful 05/26/2009

When I sit in meetings or read something that I disagree with it is normally because it is not my truth or my experience. I would find that when others spoke about their experience if it was different from mine I would try to look for ways of proving them wrong, I would use throw away comments like, they are not doing the steps, that is just the drunk in them talking, my ego wanted me to prove they were wrong so I could be self rightous.

As I felt the spirituality rise in me because that is my truth, I felt it as tangible as I feel happiness, sadness, pain, joy the same way I feel anything that is part of me. But as I felt my spirituality rise and in working with my sponsor I came to realise that by trying to disprove anothers truth I was not seeing the message they were giveing. I was blocking myself from my HP and others.

I used to think I had a good understanding. When I set aside the words they used and tried to see what the message was they were giving I soon realised I know only a little. God will constantly disclose more to me if I am open to hear the message not how it is presented.

One of my biggest lessons was to learn that my truth may not be your truth but that does not make yours or my truth wrong it just makes it different.

G8

deleted_user 05/26/2009

Thank You!

deleted_user 05/26/2009

Great message here, Gr8ful. This makes me think of my discussion here about my ex sponsor vs. me. That's pretty much the way I was coming across I do believe, because I wanted to be right about the Whole mess, and that was keeping me down.

Now that I can see more clearly, I see it was my ego in the way indeed! I was right in the way I was feeling at first, but others were right in the way I needed to get off my high horse and get over it. That it just doesn't matter as much as I was trying to make it.

This might not be Exactly what you are saying here, but I get what you're saying, and it's good to be reminded of this Ego of mine that I wasn't seeing.

Thanks for sharing this truth. (o;

deleted_user 05/26/2009

We once had a guy in this neck of the woods we called Cancer Chuck. He always wore a bandanna on his head because, he said, he was constantly in and out of chemotherapy. He walked like he was on eggshells, his voice was weak & thin, and there was always a reverent hush in the rooms when he shared. People all over the area quoted the wit & wisdom of Cancer Chuck.

Well, we picked up the newspapers one morning about a dozen years ago and there he was, right on page 1. Our beloved Chuck was a complete fraud. He hadn't conned anyone in AA out of anything, but he had faked everything else, including alcoholism and cancer, to run a sympathy scam and bilk his church and his employer, a car dealer, out of a total of two million dollars. His wife finally figured out what he was doing and called the cops. Slam-dunk case and he got 15-20 years. And even though he's been a guest of the State and out of circulation ever since, I still hear people quoting him and telling how inspired they were by that honest and wonderful guy with cancer. What was his name? Is he still alive? Oh, you know the one...

CoogeeMum 05/26/2009

Thanks G8. Reminds me of Nod's 'the greater truth' thread on the main board yeah. But dare I mention it here lol. Nemo, I'm trying to unravel your story in relation to this thread, but can't relate it, can you help this simple mind and break it down a bit. It's late in Aussie. CM xxx

ScarletAngel 05/26/2009

Great topic. Thanks for the reminder.

deleted_user 05/26/2009

This is bang on. I have come to believe that you can have two opposing opinions that are both honest and valuable....and do not invalidate each other. Any opinion can make sense if you open your mind to both it and the life experience of the person giving it...even if you don't agree with what is being shared. Opinions are just opinions, after all. They are not truths.

I also have come to believe that if another person's opinion is driving you batty, then that is about you and your life experience...not them and their opinion. There is a saying that used to drive me crazy in early sobriety, but that I have come to rely on: 'If you can spot it, you got it.' In other words, if someone else's intolerance is upsetting you, then you probably have your own issue around intolerance to look at.

m8bear 05/26/2009

Yes, I would agree. I know my sponsor tells me something similar...I am reminded that 'just because It is not my experience does not mean it is not true'.

Tolerance is something I work on daily.

deleted_user 05/26/2009

I am fairly new to AA and have found that speaker meetings teach compassion simply by virtue of the fact that we egomaniacs are forced to sit and really LISTEN to someone else's experience for an entire hour. Since we don't have a chance to respond, our brain is intent on taking in the speaker's story without having to fight a train of thought that is formulating a response as the person is speaking. After a few meetings, I wondered in how many conversations with friends, co-workers, family members was I really an active listener rather than a passive talker; and moreover, how much of what a person is saying do I actually allow into my mind unfiltered and unfettered by my own desire to comment on the subject at hand?

leejosepho 05/26/2009

Remembering the fact that "two opposing opinions ... do not invalidate each other" is invaluable in settings such as ours. And of course, neither do contrasting experiences cause automatic invalidations. Yet with the good of all in mind, we cannot ultimately escape or altogether avoid the challenge of helping and allowing truth to get past the darkness of any mere opinion, perception or seeming experience. (12&12, Step Four, paraphrased)

deleted_user 05/26/2009

Nemo...I know what you are talking about. When I was working at the club, it was sometimes difficult to go to meetings there simply because I got to hear them talk and then watch them walk...it can really blow up a persons listening capabilities. I don't work there anymore...but I just remember that I'm there for the message and not to judge. OK, I will admit it....it really messes with me when I know the truth.

deleted_user 05/26/2009

My truth......Your truth... And then there is THE TRUTH....unfortunately as humans we may be incapable of finding it because we are all limited by our experiences, expectations, perceptions, etc., hence we throw out our ideas and then debate, discuss, argue and fight over them.
When we realize that we have a fairly large brain compared to all the other animals we must remember that we use only a fraction of it and for most of us that is a blessing in disguise.
If you understand what I'm trying to get at then you are smarter than me and most certainly sicker than I think we are.

deleted_user 05/26/2009

Yeah, it's a WE Program until we start stating our experience thoughts and ideas in a WE and YOU fashion...that's usually what raises a red flag for me.

deleted_user 05/26/2009

I'm a great believer in paradox and that equal and opposite truths can both be right at the same time.

donttread 05/26/2009

Nemo "cancer Chuck" is a perfect example of why "no one person can become greater than the fellowship"
In my home group a few years back we had a " golden slipper" type who talked program better than Bill and Bob probably did. He just didn't live it.
He was a binger and he plan drunks for weeks never tipping off we his friends and sometimes newcomers would seemingly slip in the wake of his drunks.
It rattled us all and it hurt.
Eventually he put a few years together though.

leejosepho 05/26/2009

For example, Huw, the law of gravity versus ...?

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