>>> so how many of you who don't believe meeting makers make it: Got where you are without any meetings? "

I personally had a spiritual awakening after giving up on AA, religion, medicine, psychology and even God.
It was when I surrendered the idea that I could somehow achieve, manage or earn sobriety that sobriety found me.

It was not until after I had this "awakening" that I realized that it matched exactly what I had read in a book that I had failed to take seriously:

"We will see that our new attitude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality - safe and protected. "

It just comes?

I am with Gally and a lot of people on other A.A. boards that find it unecessary to try and figure out why others do what they do, and focus on what works for them.

It is so easy to make statements like they just did not want it, did not do this, did not do that. How much wasted time watching others and making these judgement calls. Wondering how many that feel they have the answer are first timers that never relapsed?

How many found the syeps , even the book because they first went to a meeting? Remember it's an honest program.

Okay you found them, not sure what that means?

I have found a great deal of what i needed through 12 step programs, but as I have mentioned I do not prescribe to anything that leaves man in contempt prior to investigation. In fact A.A. refuses to even look at any other way, science, progress, new findings or experiences. That bothers me as I never thought of the program that way, but as a tool to grow and give purpose to my life outside of A.A.

Keep coming back, it works if you work it!â

This is what is chanted at the end of every meeting, but what if you have âworked itâ and you still keep going back and getting drunk or loaded?

Now, most people in the program will say things like, âWell, you must not have really done the steps right,â or âYou didnât go to enough meetings,â or âYou didnât pray to your Higher Power,â or âYou know you did something wrong or else you would still be sober!â

Since what you are told from your very first 12-step meeting is, âYour only options are to get sober using our Program, or itâs jails, institutions or death,â you tend to stop thinking for yourself, (since it was your âbest thinking that got you hereâ), stop questioning, and just follow what otherâs tell you to do.



In the AA book, Dr. Bob and the Good Oldtimers , the author comments on the contradicting stories regarding the writing of the Big Book and notes: âThere is a discrepancy here, as there is regarding very many things that happened in these early years. âIt was like we were all witnesses to an accident,' said one member. âIt was the same accident, but we all saw it from different angles.'â (p. 152).




To AA believers, AA doctrine must be correct, as it is written. No one may speak of the incoherence of AA doctrine, and group interaction is designed to prevent or contain skepticism. âYour best thinking got you here.â âThereâs no one too dumb to get this program, but many are too intelligent.â âExpect a miracle.â

AA has a well-known reputation as âslogan therapy,â but all cults use repeated phrases as an indoctrination technique. Like all cults, each and every slogan or motto of AA is an inversion of the truth or a platitude to cover an atrocity. The meeting structure itself forbids two-way communications, allowing for one to âshareâ whatever, with only marginal or no commentary from the group. Approval and disapproval are communicated slyly with acerbic comments from groupers, or nonverbal gestures and cues.

Black and White or you are not a alcoholic, or are questioned, quizzed, shamed, patronized, and sometimes outright insulted in the name of tough love. How grandiose of us. I guess when God was sought some of us were struck God.

Its great certain suggestions, cleaning house, helping others, finding something to believe in has made our lives better, but that obvioulsy is not enough and we utter these things with a arrogance and pronouncing ourselves good sober people. If this was all there was to my being in the program, I am so happy it never got this way for me. I just do not get it. Nor do I want to.





The good news is that many more treatment programs are starting to provide more evidence-based options beyond just the traditional 12-step approach, and this list is growing everyday.

It is finally time to stop living in the dark ages of recovery, educate people about all of their choices and alternatives that are out there and maybe start making a dent in the alcohol and drug use problem that millions are facing each day instead of continuing to perpetuate it.

If you are one of those people who still believe that the 12-steps are the âonly wayâ to recover, I implore you to have an open mind.

In fact, Bill W., one of the co-founders of AA said, "It would be a product of false pride to claim that A.A. is a cure-all, even for alcoholism." Bill W. repeatedly said that "our hats are off to you if you can find a better way" and "If [those seeking a different cure] can do better by other means, we are glad."



it is becoming clearer to me that substance abuse is not a âone size fits allâ problem, and therefore, there can not be a âone-size-fits-allâ solution.

Meetings are a place to vent and a safe place for newcomers. The steps are suggested, and are not law, nor mean they work for everyone. I love the program. But dang it, where is everyone coming from with this its AA or no way?

Share what works, and if it works for someone it is fantastic. But stop throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I am leaving for awhile. I love the program may be back. Need to go to my meetings and hopefully not see or hear these things as this is becoming to real for me.

Love you all..and i mean that. But these debates are not healthy for me, or those I feel reading that need help over which I am powerless here.

Be Well Tink

"AA works best for most" I'm pretty sure that includes meetings.

Its part of the deal. Pretty arrogant statement. I don't care if was Bill Wilson that said it.

From what I've seen the ones that don't make it never wanted it in the first place. As has been said, many come in looking for what's wrong then leave when they find it. Just an observation.

>>> many come in looking for what's wrong then leave when they find it."

LOL! So true - many come in expecting "whats wrong" to be the other guy.

A favorite quote of mine - ( from CHris Raimer, of A.A and C.A ) is- "Meeting makers DONT make it, meeting makers go slowly insane, and then shoot themselves."

Yes good old Chris. Had him in are area a few years back and had lunch with him and asked if he ever did a 6 or 7 the subject changed real fast..

>>> A favorite quote of mine - ( from CHris Raimer, of A.A and C.A ) is- "Meeting makers DONT make it, meeting makers go slowly insane, and then shoot themselves."

Bob Darrel (Las Vegas) says more or less the same thing but not quite as blunt.

You know what I was taught ifrom the program of AA is very simply that it is my experience that I should be sharing.

In my experience when I first came to meetings I was told to keep coming to meetings and don't drink. I did that for 8 years and then found I was agian tired restless and irritable, even suicidale. I didn't drink but I sure didn't have quality sobriety.

I was fortunate enough to break my foot and spend 9 months at home during which time I was introduced to some people from all over the world who practice the teachings in their life as described in the Big Book of AA. I worked the steps and indeed had a spiritual awakening. My quality of life today is completely different from what it was before I worked the steps.

Are meetings a good tool? Sure they are, but for me they certainly were not the answer. However that being said, there are alot of AA meetings that I have attended that Are more About Anything meetings as people talk about whatever such as how their day went or how mad they are at their spouse or, or, or. My point is that how in the world are any of these things going to help me to stay sober another day? The key for me is to find meetings that truely do live by the teachings from the Big Book.

My solution to life used to be Alcohol. Today my Solution for life has been replaced by the Solution that was shown to me in the Big Book from AA. A simple program that indeed has saved my life and can save anyones life that wants it and is willing.

God Bless, Mike Still Truckinsober

How many make it without meetings?

I'm fairly certain that if AA as it is known right know folded up and fell of the face of the earth, I would be OK.

I have a spiritual practice and I know where to find some alcoholics to work with.

Alcoholics Anonymous didn't get me sober and Alcoholics Anonymous doesn't keep me sober. God got me sober and God keeps me sober. Sometimes I get reminded of that in AA meetings.

A certain Jewish carpenter is reputed to have said that "I point my finger at God and you worship my finger."

Meetings aren't the solution, the Big Book and the steps aren't the solution, sponsors and sponsoring isn't the solution, and service isn't the solution. They point us towards the solution. We worship all the fingers that point at God, but not God.