As you probably know from many of my previous posts I dislike this reading a lot. I wont repeat myself again by explaining why but if anyone wants to discuss I am happy to explain my point of view.

'Until I could accept my alcoholism, I could not stay sober'.

That was definitely the start of my journey.

Until I could accept my alcoholism........ definitely true.

Rest of the reading questionable IMO.

Yes Nicky we all have are opinions but it seem the majority agree with the whole statement.

Hope all is well.

gjm - if nothing happens in god's world by mistake there can be no such thing as self will. How can people who believe in a program that clearly distinguishes between self will and god's will agree with this statement?

Maybe someone could clarify for me?

Everything works itself out, one way or another, my will or not.

I don't think everything does work out by itself and that's why I struggle with this reading -for different reasons to Nicky, being that I don't believe in heaven or different lives etc, so I find the suffering in the world so hard to stomach and to say that "Nothing, absolutely nothing happens in God's world by mistake." is in my view untterly contemtuous of those who suffer from the minute they are born until the minute they die, at no fault of their own.

I'm 11 years sober in AA and I own it my life. I have defintely had many spiritual awakenings through that period and I have also had periods of utterly nothing in terms of spirituality, And I must say that this philosopy of "Nothing, absolutely nothing happens in God's world by mistake." is a real stumbling block for me. I guess I get around that by living the "take what you like and leave the rest" philosophy, but I do think that this type of thinking is what breeds comments like "Religion is the opium of the masses", because it provides meaning in suffering in ways which are palatable to a lot of people, and I respect them for that. But it doesn't work for me.

It does open up for a lot of philosophical discussion. I was trying to come up with my clarification of what I said but don't have the brain power this morning!! :-)

Thanks for your post Wendy. I have a lot of the same thoughts as you. Sometimes I think I am the only one that see things differently.Good to know that someone else thinks about these things too.

What's there not to accept. When something happens, its done, that's it. The only reason we suffer is because of our resistance to what's happened. The problem is that when something has happened and we are stuck in resistance to it, we don't think there is a way out and often feel trapped. As soon as the right understanding comes along and we realize we can let go of the resistance to what has happened, we feel peace again.

We have to accept that things are as they are - that does not mean that we have to accept that they are exactly as they are meant to be.

I am not too keen on that acceptance quote - it doesn't read true to me, it smacks of fatalism. It's only one person's opinion and not a part of the programme, it is in a personal story.

I prefer the Serenity prayer - God grant me the serenity to ACCEPT the things I cannot change, courage to CHANGE the things I can - and the WISDOM to know the difference..

>>> gjm - if nothing happens in god's world by mistake there can be no such thing as self will. How can people who believe in a program that clearly distinguishes between self will and god's will agree with this statement?
Maybe someone could clarify for me? <<<

According to the Kabbalah. Every time we follow the dictates of Egoism, we are not engaged in self-will at all - we are just following our predetermined destiny. The only time we are breaking free of predetermination (a.k.a. Karma) is when we act against Egoism. Namely, when we;

Give in
Give up
Give to (others)

If you think this is a far-fetched idea, just look at what we are doing in steps 10 - 12.

OneInTwenty, that's an amazing philosophy and ones I've never heard of before, in any context.

This is a great reading but for one line,
"Nothing, absolutely nothing happens in God's world by mistake."
Omit that part and you'll love it too.