Our Messy Progress
Progress is sometimes painfully slow.
I often relate emotional needs to "thirst". It's easier for my husband to understand "thirsty" than it is "lonely". It isn't a perfect metaphor. After all, if one is thirsty, one can just go get one's own water. If one is lonely, the remedy comes from interaction from another person. Still, it helps us with certain "hard" conversations.
Things used to sort of go like this: I'd be dying of thirst. My throat would ache and I couldn't talk and I'd see that my husband has the water, I desperately need. I would just sit around waiting for him to offer it to me because if he loved me he would SEE I was thirsty and he would just give it to me. He wouldn't notice, so I go thirsty.
(As a note of interest, I'm told that he WOULD notice, but his "dude" thinking would be, "So get a drink of water?" He is not a nurturing type. If I'm sitting there crying with tears pouring down my face and snot running out of my nose, it doesn't even OCCUR to him to get me a tissue. This baffles me more than I can say.)
After counseling, I was able to say, "Honey, I'm very, VERY thirsty." However, it wasn't enough because he'd look at me in confusion and frustration. Sometimes he'd bring me a piece of bread. Metaphorically, I mean. Even though I felt I was conveying a need to him by expressing my feelings, he didn't always comprehend what I needed from him. And truthfully, just expressing feelings doesn't always convey what the true need is, right?
I have a hard time identifying and expressing my needs. I am still working on asking for what I need. "I'm thirsty. Could you please give me some of your water?" seems easy enough, but I struggle so hard with this. Plus, sometimes I just know I'm thirsty and I don't know if I want/need water or juice or milk or if I think I'm thirsty but really, at the root of it, I'm just overly tired and need to go to bed. God, I hate being so complex sometimes.
I caught myself in this cycle the other day. What I really wanted to discuss with him was NYE plans (or lack thereof) and plans (or lack thereof) for our anniversary. The problem is, the discussion took an ugly turn to finances, which were stressing me out (as usual?) which lead to an all out fight.
The big issues that arose are that I couldn't immediately and concisely identify my needs and what actions I wanted him to take. It's just not that simple to me, I needed to "talk it out" and he was getting super impatient with that.
Also, I can't just take his ideas and table them for discussion. I have to comment (or more to the point... criticize) immediately and he won't list off multiple ideas, he just comes up with one and decides, "OK there. I gave you an idea if it's not good enough, it's your fault." Also... he doesn't give me verbal cues that he's looking for a discussion or opinion.
For example: He will say, "I am going to the store in 15 minutes."
Then he'll get angry because I don't respond with yes or no. Yes or no WHAT? That's not a question. That's a statement. He's announcing intention, he's not asking for my feelings/thoughts on it.
After a really rough argument we both learned some things. I learned to say, "That's a cool idea, but let's come up with some more and compare them," instead of immediately coming up with "negatives" for why an idea may not work. It's better for me to keep it positive and instead of saying, "That's too expensive," having a second (or third or fourth) where I can say, "This one is more affordable." I guess, instead of having pros/cons, I just need to make lists of pros? We'll see how it works. My brain doesn't work that way, but if it helps him to work with me then I'm willing to try it. It definitely seems like it'll keep me more positive, which I need to do.
He learned to say, "How would you feel/what would you think about _____?" when he's soliciting my opinion. So... "I'm thinking of going to the store. What are your thoughts on that?" This way, I don't feel like he's unilaterally deciding things without my input when we're trying to work through a decision, and he is making it clear when he's asking for my input when he's talking about a decision he's processing.
I'm not sure how that'll work, but I'm satisfied with that wording formula for now. It's much better than him getting angry because I don't give feedback or me getting angry because I feel left out of the decision process.
Dammit. This is all hard. I wish we'd learned these skills much earlier in our marriage so we could actually be somewhat good at them by now.
I often relate emotional needs to "thirst". It's easier for my husband to understand "thirsty" than it is "lonely". It isn't a perfect metaphor. After all, if one is thirsty, one can just go get one's own water. If one is lonely, the remedy comes from interaction from another person. Still, it helps us with certain "hard" conversations.
Things used to sort of go like this: I'd be dying of thirst. My throat would ache and I couldn't talk and I'd see that my husband has the water, I desperately need. I would just sit around waiting for him to offer it to me because if he loved me he would SEE I was thirsty and he would just give it to me. He wouldn't notice, so I go thirsty.
(As a note of interest, I'm told that he WOULD notice, but his "dude" thinking would be, "So get a drink of water?" He is not a nurturing type. If I'm sitting there crying with tears pouring down my face and snot running out of my nose, it doesn't even OCCUR to him to get me a tissue. This baffles me more than I can say.)
After counseling, I was able to say, "Honey, I'm very, VERY thirsty." However, it wasn't enough because he'd look at me in confusion and frustration. Sometimes he'd bring me a piece of bread. Metaphorically, I mean. Even though I felt I was conveying a need to him by expressing my feelings, he didn't always comprehend what I needed from him. And truthfully, just expressing feelings doesn't always convey what the true need is, right?
I have a hard time identifying and expressing my needs. I am still working on asking for what I need. "I'm thirsty. Could you please give me some of your water?" seems easy enough, but I struggle so hard with this. Plus, sometimes I just know I'm thirsty and I don't know if I want/need water or juice or milk or if I think I'm thirsty but really, at the root of it, I'm just overly tired and need to go to bed. God, I hate being so complex sometimes.
I caught myself in this cycle the other day. What I really wanted to discuss with him was NYE plans (or lack thereof) and plans (or lack thereof) for our anniversary. The problem is, the discussion took an ugly turn to finances, which were stressing me out (as usual?) which lead to an all out fight.
The big issues that arose are that I couldn't immediately and concisely identify my needs and what actions I wanted him to take. It's just not that simple to me, I needed to "talk it out" and he was getting super impatient with that.
Also, I can't just take his ideas and table them for discussion. I have to comment (or more to the point... criticize) immediately and he won't list off multiple ideas, he just comes up with one and decides, "OK there. I gave you an idea if it's not good enough, it's your fault." Also... he doesn't give me verbal cues that he's looking for a discussion or opinion.
For example: He will say, "I am going to the store in 15 minutes."
Then he'll get angry because I don't respond with yes or no. Yes or no WHAT? That's not a question. That's a statement. He's announcing intention, he's not asking for my feelings/thoughts on it.
After a really rough argument we both learned some things. I learned to say, "That's a cool idea, but let's come up with some more and compare them," instead of immediately coming up with "negatives" for why an idea may not work. It's better for me to keep it positive and instead of saying, "That's too expensive," having a second (or third or fourth) where I can say, "This one is more affordable." I guess, instead of having pros/cons, I just need to make lists of pros? We'll see how it works. My brain doesn't work that way, but if it helps him to work with me then I'm willing to try it. It definitely seems like it'll keep me more positive, which I need to do.
He learned to say, "How would you feel/what would you think about _____?" when he's soliciting my opinion. So... "I'm thinking of going to the store. What are your thoughts on that?" This way, I don't feel like he's unilaterally deciding things without my input when we're trying to work through a decision, and he is making it clear when he's asking for my input when he's talking about a decision he's processing.
I'm not sure how that'll work, but I'm satisfied with that wording formula for now. It's much better than him getting angry because I don't give feedback or me getting angry because I feel left out of the decision process.
Dammit. This is all hard. I wish we'd learned these skills much earlier in our marriage so we could actually be somewhat good at them by now.
Replies
This made me laugh..perhaps not an appropriate response to what might be a trying time for you...so, sorry if I sound a wee bit insensitive. It does sound complicated and confusing too (as learning new things do.)
It may be my cynical side and/or a touch of sisterly protectiveness, but I have to say that you seem to be trying really hard to work on all this... I hope hubby is as dedicated. Communication is key but not the strong suit of males as we all know from our personal experiences and from all that has been revealed about the differences in how men and women use their brains.
All this communication stuff is important..no doubt, but what I can\'t figure out is... how do the men in our lives get into developing this stuff with equal dedication when they are literally, not wired to do so...???( she says scratching head).
If it weren\'t so hair-pullingly frustrating, I\'d laugh, too.
To be fair to my husband, he has worked really hard on the things I\'ve asked of him. I, too, worry because it often feels as if I\'m taking the initiative on everything and he\'s just \"along for the ride\". That said - at least he\'s along for the ride. Even before the A he would have just said, \"Nah. You go. I\'m good here.\"
That\'s great that he is along for the ride and that you see a difference from his attitude before. We (humans but especially women), are so good and finding the positive in a difficult situation. No matter who is leading the way, as long as the focus is on the same thing.. I say.
Mine is very much just following along too. He really wants \"us\" but just hates all the communication stuff because it doesn\'t come naturally to him (having come from a home of non positive communicators). It all seems confusing to him and way too much \"work\". He gets that \"work\' is what is required to achieve a better \"us\" but as far a communication goes, he thinks it is easier to do as he as always done. He acts like a kid being asked to do his homework when I ask more of him than this. He is so used to getting his own way and at my end, my dad (no surprise) was the same so I feel like this is the pattern of my life. Both have always managed to charm, demand or manipulate to get their way. As kids, we learn what works with the family and stick to it. My bf knows he is self centered but it still works for him so the motivation to change wains.