Cerebral micro-bleeds

dero 01/14/2013
\"That doesn\'t mean the data can\'t be extrapolated or shifted to other related health issues\". (Quoted by you)

IF you are a professional and know what you are talking about you could if it applies. What is your medical background, not saying that mine is any better, but if a study is sited for \" patients treated with anticoagulation following cardioembolic stroke due to atrial fibrillation.\" it does not relate to neither DVT and/or PE patients or outpatients. You do play a dangerous game and borderline illegal.

cave76 01/14/2013
The Cromis-2 study asks this question:

The clinical question :
What is the best anticoagulation treatment?

A page on the web-site for patients explains in more detail:
What is the Cromis-2 study trying to find out.
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/cromis-2/patientinfo.php

This excerpt is from that link:
\" What is the CROMIS-2 study trying to find out?
The research question is: \"Do small areas of bleeding in the brain (microbleeds) in patients with stroke due to an irregular heartbeat predict the risk of bleeding on a common blood-thinning medicine (anticoagulants)?\"

Another excerpt, same page:
\"Recent research suggests that having microbleeds increases the risk of suffering a bleed into the brain after treatment with anticoagulants\"

The findings may help anyone who uses warfarin not just AF patients who have had a stroke due to their AF, which is the main goal of that study. Its good that you pointed out that primary goal. Thank you.

An unintended sequelae (but a very important one) will be the answer(s) to the question posted above.

Because the brain doesnt differentiate between warfarin (or the new anti-coags, if they are to be used which Im not sure about) used for AF or for PEs the answer(s) found could be used in other studies/articles. The Cromis-2 study and its findings will almost certainly be cited in other, later studies and articles--- i.e. extrapolated. (Unless its aborted for some reason, which does happen sometimes, for various reasons.)

I also discovered that two of my links didnt work and Ill replace them with working tinyurls. Curious as to how you read the information in the links, but perhaps you have resources beyond mine.

dero 01/15/2013
After reading about the case study called CROMIS-2 found at http://www.ucl.ac.uk/cromis-2/patientinfo.php#how
and SPECIALLY reading the purpose of this Study, it has NOTHING to do with what you have perceived as \"What is the best anticoagulation treatment? Be it Warfarin or any of the new anticoagulants.

The research question is:
\"Do small areas of bleeding in the brain (microbleeds) in patients with stroke due to an irregular heartbeat, predict the risk of bleeding on a common blood-thinning medicine (anticoagulants)?\"

Here is explaining what it is...


Anticoagulants, blood thinning medication, are often used after a stroke due to blood vessel blockage to prevent further strokes. It is very effective, but has a rare side-effect of bleeding into the brain: though this side-effect is uncommon, it may be very serious and could counteract any treatment benefit. Unfortunately at the moment it is hard to predict who will suffer a brain haemorrhage on anticoagulants. A special brain scan, called gradient-echo magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), shows tiny areas of previous bleeding (called \"microbleeds\") around leaky, fragile blood vessels.

Recent research suggests that having microbleeds increases the risk of suffering a bleed into the brain after treatment with anticoagulants. Some people with stroke could therefore be receiving a risky treatment unnecessarily, but we do not know this for sure. To find out if this theory is correct, a large number of stroke survivors started on anticoagulants need to be studied using gradient-echo MRI scans before treatment, and then followed up. This needs collaboration between a number of different hospitals throughout the UK to definitively answer this important question.

We will invite participants to have blood taken for genetic studies to see if any genetic variations make people more susceptible to microbleeds or brain haemorrhage after taking anticoagulants.

That is how, I read the case literature for Study Cromis-2.

dero 01/15/2013
So to extrapolated or shifted the data from this study (Cromis-2) to other related health issues would be a major mistake. I can only surmise that you are referring to either DVT or PE (as other related health issues).

cave76 01/15/2013
\"I can only surmise that you are referring to either DVT or PE (as other related health issues).\"

Yes, that\'s correct, if I\'m understanding your statement.

dero 01/15/2013
Anybody that fully understand the difference between Thromboembolism and a stroke due to an irregular heartbeat would NOT make that mistake.
The damage is not the same, you will NEVER find the same damage suffered in a patient that has had a stroke, in a patient that suffers from thromboembolism. Therefore no chances of cerebral microbleeds if you take anticoags for DVT or PE.

What I\'m getting to is, don\'t start talking about stuff that you, yourself don\'t understand, remember, there are some newbies that are venturing in here, reading your literature and start to worry about stuff that does not even affect them.

OH NO, cave said that I could have microbleeds because I\'m taking anticoagulants, it says so in her journal.

Remember when you first were diagnosed, everything could go wrong, everything you read was what was going to happen to you just because it mentioned \"anticoagulant\".

My suggestion to you is that you make your collection/research site PRIVATE,
so we don\'t have to correct your thought process, for others to read.
Most of us are here to share knowledge, TRUE knowledge and experience about PE and DVT with folks afflicted with these conditions,
not to make matter worst.

cave76 01/15/2013
Thank you for your suggestion Dero, but I\'ll keep it public.