Can't get a grip
i've been struggling with my relationship with my sister for a very long time. We used to go out for sister nights every friday, but about a year ago, that stopped and she didn't really tell me why. Now we barely speak, but she'll still call me if she needs something. She's 16 years younger and has world and political views that don't match mine, so it's been rough for a while. When we used to go to dinner, I had to walk on eggshells for fear of being told off. It happened 80% of the time, I would say something and she would go off on me, and berate me and explain how wrong I am for using this word or phrase, etc. Most nights I'd get home and cry. My friends said to let her go, stop talking to her, that it was a very abusive relationship, but she's my only sister. I'm crushed, honestly that after all that, she's the one who stopped talking to me. My therapist said it's because she has low self esteem, and she always sought my approval, that she took it in the other direction. Putting me in my place is how she copes. Also, she was part of the era where everyone gets a participation trophy so no one felt left behind, but that comes with a whole host of issues, sometimes including becoming narcissistic, because they were taught they could do no wrong. It's very complex, but the bottom line is I'm heartbroken.
Replies
I'm sorry your in that situation. Thing about family is they stay your family so just walking away is usually a bad way to deal with things in my opinion.
There has been family i walk away from but they tend to be aunts, uncles, and cousins.
Siblings however, are always going to be there.
For me it is between my kids and me. i'm divorced and my son lives with me while my daughter lives with their mom.
My son is a little on a different political spectrum and is being sucked in by empty promises and my ex wife is trying to get my daughter to be in her spectrum and just confuse the girl. It is a hard time for me because as we got older my ex and i have gone different ways on the political and religious spectrum.
What i do and the best way to approach it with my kids is to setup an open debate with them and allow everyone to present arguments and rebuttals. I know it sounds weird but it teaches my kids several things:
1) listen to someone elses opinions and analyze it from all angles
2) Be respectful about others opinions as long as they are not hurting themselves or others.
3) Knowledge exchange may actually teach you something.
4) Political debate even in family is actually a good thing.
5) Allow someone else presenting their case to fully present their case before providing a rebuttal. This shows respect for the other individuals ideas and allows you to open a door so they may listen to you as well. (doesn't always work)
Through this i have also been able to change my kids minds on several things because if i listen to them they tend to listen back because if they don't they will get shut down and they want to present their side they will allow someone else to present theirs.
May not work for you though. every family is different.
For me it has allowed to open my children's minds to me becoming Christian and about subjects close to me such as abortion, 2A rights, and other political subjects.
My son is hard to figure out as he has aspergers and possible paranoia (common in his moms family). He is far from stupid (high IQ which runs in both sides).
My daughter is starting to see my side and adapting it to herself in some ways.
My ex wife is the narcissistic one. She won't listen to anyone so in that i'm not sure what to suggest. Shock collar with button maybe...lol
It does hurt and i'm sorry you are heartbroken. Like you said she is 16 years younger than you and it may just take time for her to grow up and find that life doesn't work how many political parties want you to think. There is no utopia on the horizon and no real participation trophies anywhere in life. Just a bunch of times you get knocked on your but and you have to have the strength to get back up.
Hugs Stormcloud and i hope you feel better :)
Thank you! That's a whole heap of excellent advice. I do welcome an open debate, I just think she's too insecure to participate in a 2-way dialogue. She interrupts a lot, tells me all her points of view, with big collegiate words, and gets frustrated when I say anything back. Usually, if I hold my ground she ends up in tears and then I feel like a shit lord for trouncing my little sister.
It sounds like me and you are on the same side of things, and the younger generation isn't. I suppose that's always the way between generations.
I use an app called Telegram to keep in touch with friends and family and she had a fit saying it was a racist app and something about the thin blue line agenda. I'm like, wait, it's a techno-nerd app, with good security. AND our dad is retired from the sheriffs department. So, what is her deal??? SHEESH.
She's in the woke crowd, supports BLM, thinks cultural appropriation is a crime, and guns kill people. All that. So no, we don't agree on a lot. I think tho, like you said with active listening, even if you fully disagree, you can be respectful to others. It feels like either that generation or that particular crowd has zero tolerance for any opinion other than their own. I'm 53, she's 37. But i know many in her age group that don't agree or behave like that so it can't just be her age. She works in a college a lot, so that could be some of the influence.
:::buying shock collar now::: (kidding)
I hope she does grow out of it at some point. Time will tell. Thank you for your kind words and understanding. It really does help.
Hugs back, thank you. :)
Sometimes we simply must not talk about issues, political, religious, etc. with other people. Some people are simply not tolerant of other ideas or opinions. They call others intolerant but they are really rigid in their thinking, not nice, and intolerant of others. People are wrong if you don't 100% agree. And yes, this is likely low self esteem but it can also be narcissistic or abusive.
Sometimes we "walk on eggshells" with someone who is so difficult or bullying. We may have to make agreement noises and not try to have a discussion. Sometimes we must not share our own thoughts. This is in order to be in some kind of one sided relationship with this person. If we do this by choice, it is one thing. If we do it to appease and allow the abuse, this is not always a good thing. But sometimes we do chose to walk on the eggshells and minimize ourselves simply to see our relative sometimes. But we have to accept that they are not able to have the relationship of tolerance and acceptance and to be loving and kind to us. We accept it is not a good relationship but perhaps we want to see them once a month or something. We give up on pretending we can be best friends or "close".
She may be your only sister but acceptance of who she is and how she is, is the key to living with this. Or you may decide you simply have to put her in a box and limit engagement. Stay nice, don't give advice or say your opinions and try to enjoy her on her level. Not easy, not pleasant, but a choice.
If she is open to listening, you can listen first, ask her about her ideas don't negate her ideas, etc. Ask her about her, let her talk about herself. Forget about her being interested in your life or listening to your ideas. But if she is one of the intolerant people that are so common these days, she is likely not going to be willing to dialog with you. You are either what she expects you to be or you are out.
So I don't know if your sister has totally cut you off in what is called estrangement or if she is just difficult. The things you describe for her saying and doing sound like she is very difficult and bullying. She doesn't get to tell you that the app is terrible and you are terrible for using it. That is very rude and bullying behavior. Perhaps everyone, your parents, have allowed her to run the show and say whatever mean comes to her mind or perhaps she has a personality disorder or mental health disorder.
I have some books you might find helpful: Life Code by Phil McGraw, PhD will help you see if her behaviors fit into the really negative, bullying, abusive types of people and how to protect. yourself. If she has estranged from you and you want to understand her generation, Rules of Estrangement by Joshua Coleman, PhD (but be careful of the amends letter stuff, it doesn't fit when the estranged person is abusive and bullying and nefarious). Coleman is good about explaining the younger generation's thought process.
She may never grow out of this behavior and that is why we have to accept these people for who they are and how they are.
I am sorry, I have relatives and loved ones like this. I have a daughter like this that must be awful to her MIL and FIL. I've heard her disparage her husband's sister to the mother and I cringe. For me, I limit contact and stay away from every talking about myself or giving my opinion. It is walking on eggshells. She has a mental health issue but I also think this beloved daughter of mine has some inherited narcissistic traits that make her totally unwilling or unaware that other people have feelings that matter, too.
Wow 37. The way you wrote it i thought she was in her 20's or something. She should have grown up already.
I'm 42 and i have known this stuff since the late part of my 20's.
You may actually need the shock collar...lol
Colleges are bad for generating these type of people. They have a lot of the type of people that want a "utopia" and spread that on and try to convince kids that is the only way to go.
I am a late bloomer and graduated college in '19 and it drove me crazy hearing this stuff in the classes. I ended up leaving in seat and going all online to get away from the kids in the classes.
Colleges only let the students think one way anymore and alternate views are not allowed. I saw recently where a college used their version of restraining orders so a student would be prevented from taking an alternate view than the college in debates in classes. She had not harmed the other students but since she disagreed with them she was labeled a criminal. She is now suing the college.
We need to return colleges to a place of learning and sharing of ideas not one way or the highway type schools like they are now.
Even the elementary schools are getting like this.
It is crazy. Free speech is gone.
It could be about low self esteem. Being exposed to individuals who teach you to hate yourself and where you come from can have very bad effects on someone's mental state.
I hope things improve Storm.
@urbangardner
I agree, we can't freely discuss politics anymore (could people ever?). It's only been the past 5 years where i've paid attention to the news, (both sides of the aisle), deciding who was full of shit and who wasn't as much. It's clear all the media outlets are about clicks, but some are so patently dishonest it's hard to believe they're allowed to be on the air. Over covid, it became more clear which side each of us was on, my sister and I. Now, i'm very aware that some people, no matter how much they tout anti-facism and pro tolerance are simply intolerant of alternate ideas, and shut you down and kick you to the curb for having them. The whole thing makes me sad. It seems like most of us just want to feel safe in our lives, supported with our choices, and free to live in the manner we choose, as long as it hurts no one. I'm nearly back to the point of not watching the news.
Now mostly the news is about inflation and food shortages, which is horribly depressing to everyone, by any standard.
My doc wants me on anti-depressants and I asked him, if life all around us is depressing, isn't it natural to be depressed? A pill isn't going to make my sister be reasonable, or lower gas prices. Besides, I hate the side effects of everything I've tried.
I've got the Dr Phil book in my cart, and I'm looking at others. A better understanding of her, me and how to cope will be very helpful. I can't continue crying myself to sleep and waking up trembling.
Thank you for your reply. I've read it over several times, and it's very helpful. :)
@rianbooyer. Right?? She is a bit behind the curve with the maturity. At least as far as social/political stuff goes. I wish I could wave a wand and make it all better for both of us. But, I can't break my back changing or walking on eggshells for her, nor expect her to change her stances on stuff. It's been a few months since we've hung out, and oddly, she asked me out last night, but I couldn't because I'm handling sick pets right now, and I'm too tired to leave the house. That was probably for the best, since I'm angry and tired, so maybe less diplomatic or cordial at the moment.
I agree with you about free speech. It's a shame. Seeing how it goes on the news and censorship on twitter is disheartening.
Sometimes she makes me feel like I'm crazy. Like anyone who thinks the way i do is nuts. She actually said "you and your tin hat theories" once, because I questioned something she felt certain of. We should question the motives of certain government entities and big pharma, I think. We should at least ASK about efficacy and long term studies, and side-effects, and I make no apologies for that.
Thank you for your input here, It's nice to feel heard and validated.
Always and i do mean always ask questions no matter what is going on.
On the anti depressants i know some people really need them but drugs like that crippled me for a large number of years.
I take two right now.
Trazodone mainly for sleep and amytriptaline which actually is a treatment for my migrains.
If you are down it may be worthwhile to try to fight through it before jumping on the drugs.
I have seen people get anti depressants for slight depression and the drug unballance them enough for them to attempt suicide.
They should be used as a last resort not a cure all.
Talking to people has always helped me.
The biggest thing to help me was going back to work and finding God again.
I am a thousand times stronger than i was before i found my job. 100x stronger than i was last year.
One thing i was holding on to was not forgiving those who wronged me in the past. Letting that go has been a huge boon to my mental health.
We are here for you StormCloud.