Oh dear... so many people thought it was them I was speaking about... it was none of my listed friends... and really the ladies I'm speaking of... their frustrations about their kids... about tough love and cutting apron strings and forbidding them to even visit... and I truly do understand their frustration... but I guess because I don't have a daughter on earth to rail against I hate it... I doubt they mean it or that they would if they knew how hard it is to wake up every day knowing your child's earthly presence is gone... I feel like I should apologize for whining... but I'm not going to... It hurts and that's about the only way I can say it...  As all too often I'm having bad days... and I needed something to rail against... Its not like I can do anything about what really hurts so bad...  As I was reminded recently... its about money... do we make more money with short term detox...  revolving doors that we shove through again and again as long as our child is alive trying to save them... or... is there more money in long term...  well... that's a question that even a math dummie like myself can figure out...  There's a lot of "specialized" costs in short term...  Thank you Kaydeedid... I do so love your name... who did it... kaydeedid....  what a blessing... someone to blame... *Smile*   No it wasn't your journal... I'm sorry for your problems with your brothers...  I wish I had some advice... unfortunately I have sibling problems also that I have no idea how to deal with...  One good thing about siblings... we grew up fighting... its a natural part of our relationship...  so I can at least mentally bash em a good un...  That's not really going to help with your brother... sounds like he's in serious trouble... I would say one thing... I'm not saying take any guff... I'm not... but always tell him... I long so much for you to find the want to... to get your life straightened out... no matter what I will always love you...  if he'll leave the door open that much for you...  Like I've mentioned I think mush is good for us.... and too much is better than not enough... I guess there might be some folks... I'm not one of them... who wish they'd said I Love You less often... Me... I only wish I'd said it more...  Katmac... Thanks for caring...  I wish I'd known you too... I wish I'd asked more people for help... I didn't even go to my priest... I was too ashamed... I wish I'd brought my problems here before Cara died instead of after... I didn't even think of it... I wish I'd got Cara to talk to people here...  I had not chatted online in years... and frankly Cara's life was so messed up I was afraid to get her started talking to people online... There is a lot of crappola in online chat... Why I thought I had to protect Cara from it... I don't know... where she was... where she'd been... it couldn't have been any more dangerous probably...  who knows... there's a lot of very sick people in this world...    Ah well... I'm digging around and found some interesting thoughts and poems I wanted to share... I'm updating to ok... as an indicator of my willingness to work on feeling better... Doubt if I'll make it all the way to green smiley by tomorrow... but this does help me...This first bit comes from a letter a friend wrote on lovingarms... I'm concerned that she doesn't write here anymore... I don't know exactly why... I hope she's not been hurt by something someone said... or didn't say...  "in what I have done... and what I have failed to do... "  Yep Sandy I definitely know what you mean... and as sad as I am that you hurt so much...  Thank You for understanding... Sybil... my buddy from the pit... We know that place too well...  Thank You for always reaching out... Friend's letter... I know not everyone wants to hear scripture... at this time or perhaps never... for me I find solace...   I reprinted this for all the parents who have lost a child or another beloved family member to suicide... or as in many of our cases... to alcohol/substance abuse... which in my opinion might reasonably be considered a form of suicide...  I know of no way to objectively measure pain... Frankly I have no desire to do so... I don't think loss of a child to suicide or alcohol/substance abuse makes a difference...   hurt is hurt... I don't think I hurt any more or less than anyone... if my words or words I copy and share from others helps... that's what I write it for...  "Hear my cry, O God; listen to my prayer.  From the end of the earth I call  to you, when my heart is faint. Lead me to the rock that is higher than I;  for you are my refuge, a strong tower against the enemy.  Let me abide in  your tent forever, find refuge under the shelter of your wings."  ~Psalm 61:  1 – 4.    Have you ever felt this lost in your life? Have you ever had the feeling  there was nowhere to go and no one to help you with your torment? Only God  can help us when we feel like this. This is what happens when you commit  suicide you want to go to a place where you can find refuge.    When a person commits suicide, I don’t think they have any choice in the  matter. They don’t choose to die. I am sure all our kids who completed  suicide didn’t want to die, they just wanted to be out of the pain they were  in. They were so sick of the inner turmoil and suffering and didn’t think  about what they were doing. They didn’t kill themselves, suicide killed them  as surely as if someone else put the rope around their necks or pushed the  gun against their heads. They were not in their right mind at the time. No  person who is in their right mind will do something so violent to  themselves. Suicide can also be compared to a terminal illness like cancer.  It takes your life. Can you imagine a person who has a terminal illness  wanting to die? I know a lot of your kids had an illness and died from that,  the same with suicide, it is also an illness.    I have read so much about suicide and most experts say that the act of  suicide is not a conscious choice. Suicides want peace from their suffering,  a cure to their pain, not death. So please don’t say our children chose to  die. They loved life as much as any other child, they also wanted to have a  great future, they also wanted to be happy and have a wonderful life. They  were suffering so much they just wanted to “find refuge under the shelter of  God’s wings”. They didn’t choose to die, they chose shelter from the pain.     My answer...  I will never say nor believe your child or anyone's child chose to die... and I totally agree that what they were seeking was refuge from the pain...  I speak not from experience of having lost a child to suicide although I think what Cara and many of our "lost" children were doing was a slow form of suicide... Cara definitely knew that what she was doing would in all likelihood end in her death... she said to me more times than I care to recall that she was trying every way she could to "get out".  I begged her for her life... I begged God for her life...   Well she's "out" and I'm fighting once again thoughts of how much I want the pain to end.  I'm not complaining.  Somedays the fight is harder than others.  I have no reason to get up in the morning except that I don't want to hurt those who I still have here on earth... I don't want to be a negative influence on them...  and finally I really do want to keep Cara's memory alive as long as I can...  Those are significant reasons to keep fighting... and today is blessed with your scripture and thoughts.    This  was written as from a loving pet... I rewrote it because  I also thought it fit  loss of  a human loved one...  so its changed a bit... I take liberties...  anyway... I just wanted to let you know about its original form... I wanted if it would help you for you to insert any loved one pet or human... heck we all know our pets can be more humane than  the best intentioned human...  isn't it wonderful the way our pets immerse themselves in our moods... thinking of you  Janine....  I STOOD BY YOUR BED  I stood by your bed last night, I saw you crying in your sleep.  I wanted to tell you how much I love you, and beg you not to weep.  I whispered to you softly and brushed away a tear,  "It's me, I haven't left you, I'm well, I'm fine, I'm here."  I was close to you at breakfast, I watched you pour the tea,  and I remembered many times your love reached out to me.  I was with you at the shops today, your arms were getting sore.  I longed to  take your parcels, I wished that I could help you more.  I was with you at my grave today, you tend it with such care.  I want to  reassure you, that I'm not lying there.  I walked with you towards the house, as you fumbled for your key.  I gently put my arms around you, I smiled and said again "it's me."  You looked so very tired, and sank into a chair.  I tried so hard to let you know, that I was standing there.  I want to let you know I'm near you every day.  To say to you with certainty, "I never went away."  You sat there very quietly, then smiled, I think you knew ...  in the stillness of that evening, I was very close to you.  The day is over... I smile and watch you yawning  and say "goodnight, God bless, I'll see you in the morning."  And when the time is right for you to cross the brief divide,  I'll rush across to greet you and we'll stand, side by side.  I have so many things to show you, there is so much for you to see.  Be  patient, live your journey out ... then come home to be with me.  ~~Author Unknown~~                                      God's Garden    God looked around his garden and he found an empty place,    He then looked down upon this earth and saw your tired face.    He put his arms around you and lifted you to rest.    God's Garden must be beautiful, He always takes the best.    He knew that you were suffering, He knew that you were in pain.    He knew that you would never get well on earth again.    He saw that the road was getting rough and the hills were hard to climb,    So he closed your weary eyelids and whispered    "PEACE BE THINE".    It broke our hearts to lose you, but you didn't go alone,    For parts of us went with you the day God called you home   Part of me has a hard time with this last poem... Indeed he does take the best... why?  Since it seemed to be that Cara wasn't going to get the help she needed here on earth... I'm trying to be happy for her... she does not hurt anymore... We all know how hard it is to rejoice... when our hearts are so full of pain... but I truly am a bit peaceful for a moment... Cara has found refuge from the pain...