I just had a thought- I can't really trust much of what he told me about her. They do this- project the women as crazy. But there is still plenty of stuff in that list that are either facts or I experienced firsthand.

Some bits I forgot-

SHe is financially irresponsible. has all the latest tech but can't pay the utilities. He claims she is financially controlling/abusive again "he says" but she does have all that tech. But then they end up selling their playstation at the pawn shop. Hppened quite a few times. Things like that. Information through my children - found out when suggesting they take a game or something to their dads- "they don't have the playstation/wii/ ipad mini anymore)

They change pets like they change their underwear. She gets a ferret gives a ferret away- then a rabbbit- and a cat and gives those away and repeats this weird cycle. This is not some kind of breeding or fostering that I am misinterpreting. I honestly think we would be looking at 15-20 different pets in a 5 year period. Normal people just don't do that especially with kids around getting atttached to these pets!! That's on HER my ex didn't do this. (OK normal people might do that with fish but not with rabbits, ferrets, different types of cats, puppies, parrot, mice guinea pigs and the list goes on)

She was also driving without a license!!! and no insurance. She had NEVER held a license and was driving my kids around. She just never bothered to get it. She was 25 when this came out too.

Coralie x

Well, Coralie. Why are you interacting so much with this pair? You haven't mentioned how the kids are taking it! I have a problem with my ex and our daughter. Both personality disordered! I do think they encourage each other. Don't forget, it will be the first time that anyone has understood them.
If I were you I wouldn't email if it's not about the kids. Don't enter into any slanging match. Don't let the kids take expensive stuff.
It's difficult with kids but I would definitely be trying to subtlety cutting down their visits. Call the law about her driving licence, not leaving your name at all.
I would not be like this with normal people but these people don't play the game and you will get nowhere behaving as if they ARE

Hi- Thanks for the response. This was more for interests sake.
I have been as close to no-contact as possible for an entire year. The story is in this post http://www.dailystrength.org/groups/victims-of-psychopaths-sociopaths/discussions/messages/18027857

The reason I posted this is that the WIFE seems to be the one who has insisted on keeping communication going after I have practised this form of no- contact for the year.. It is only now that I realised that most of this communication has been from HER. they refuse to actually put a first name to their emails so I am left guessing which one of them is harassing me this time.

Interesting that you said don't let the kid's take expensive stuff. I don't let them take their phones/ipads.My concernwith that is that if something breaks there i just KNOW they will not replace/repair the item. What was your reasoning for saying that??

All of that info was gained in say 6 years of them together with only this last year no contact. as well as information gained casually through my kids.

Coralie X

It would be illegal for me to subtely cut child visits.

Hi Coralie,
I know people just like them and it's a total disaster.
Be clear about this right now...do not let your ex wezzle his way back into your life because he is broke. "Karma is a bitch" Red flag right there.
Cut down on the visits from your children exactly as Jojon10 explained.( they have school or sports etc)
Change your email address I don't know how old your children are perhaps they are old enough to call you from there own mobile in case of an emergency.
Call the Police about her driving without a licence that alone is reason to keep your kids with you and let your solicitor know about that asap.
The animal abuse is typical of a P or in this case P's it's sickening.
A normal person can not learn this behaviour it was there already, she is the capital P.
The fact your ex is abusing her son I'm thinking you should call DOCS I know they are not terrific but at least it has been reported but be absolutley sure that is what's happening you need proof.
Stay away from them never let them wear you down do not compromise on anything.
Keep posting, I'm thinking of you
take care
xo

Stargone,

I have reported everything. The driving without a license. The child strangling. etc etc etc. I never get to know the DOCS outcome because this does not happen to one of my children (they "just" witness it- which I know can be just as damaging but seems CPS has not caught up with that yet) I have the issue that they manage to get around most beaurocratic stuff so easily. I guess another facet of P's.

I was certainly not as knowledgeable when this first started about their personality disorders and my children had their own lawyer. We had family studies which I expected to expose everything and it just didn't!! I don't trust the legal system AT ALL to protect my children. I do my best with what I have. The oldest child 15- has seen right through him and refuses to see him. The other two are currently in his care for a week for school holidays. The "adults" are doing ridiculous things like sending messages "from the children" that are obviously not from them. I think all of their current behaviour is designed to force a confrontation and I am not "biting" so they are trying more and more ridiculous things to try and make me snap. But guess what.. after ALL these years I know ALL of their tricks and I will not be snapping- ever.

Coralie X

coralie, did you know its illegal to send a child in a car with anyone including there other parent if they dont have a license and in most states proof of insurance? right there is your reason for not letting them go. this was how i kept my ex soc from taking my daughter for overnight visitation when she was a baby, he never bothered again to really try and get her, yes i got very lucky it worked !!! i agree change your email address there is no reason for them to be sending you these kind of emails it just keeps you involved in the game they like to play.

Peeps. That situation with the car was rectified a couple of years ago. She has her license now. I am in Australia and proof of insurance is not required.

If I change my email address, how do I get messages to do with the children? I chose email because of the easily kept written record. They are always changing dates and drop off times and i need to know that stuff. he is blocked from my phone for texts and calling.

I have been doing modified no contact for a year. Only contact is by email. They end up writing whatever they want but I make sure my emails state relevant facts only. That there is nothing of "me" in their whatsoever. No opinions no emotions. No references to the past and I ignore all of the abusive behaviour in their emails. Best I can do-


Thanks for the help but I am really doing OK with all of this. I am protecting my children as best as I can within the law. I do think they are going to take me to court to get custody of one of my children. (The boy who is witnessing the dv) I have counselling records I can subpoena detailing the abuse. I have a 14 year old who has realised who her father is and will have no issue testifying. This time I have a number of "references" stating that I am NOT crazy and a good parent from psychologists. I will NOT be blindsided again. Initially I had faith that the children's lawyer would uncover the truth but the P did a lovely smear campaign painting me as crazy. NEVER AGAIN. I also have a year of civil contact between us while they are still calling names etc and behaving pathetically. I will also have added to the orders that communication MUST be between the children's mother and father ONLY- effectively cutting the female P out of the situation. And have us BOTH do an "undertaking" which is a promise to the court that you will behave in an appropriate manner. It is the step before a restraining order and people who do not comply with them can easily end up with a restraining order slapped on them.

I was posting out of interests sake wanting opinions on whether other people have seen relationships like this- Will there be a nuclear explosion when they finally split :P ???

How do you think it would work day to day?
Its beyond me how they could get along.
It really just interested me because my gut feeling is that two P,S or N shouldnt be in a relationship. I am in school doing Psych so this stuff fascinates me :)
Anyone got an analysis for me?

Coralie X

I have seen relationships like this and it is a disaster. For them and for the kids involved. The two I know have a relationship riddled with violence, blaming, jealousy, etc. Neither can keep a job, he is an alcoholic. She actually told him to quit his job because he would get so angry at his female boss (another issues of his) that he would come home and "take it out on her and the kids." Yet she stays. She is just as violent as he is. He got into a fight with another man and ended up severing the guys arm, throwing the arm into the dumpster and then calling 911 saying his car was stolen. They have convinced the children that his only wrong doing was calling 911 and making a false complaint. No empathy for a man who was military police that now has no arm and is permanently disabled. They were trying to adopt two children whose mother was of friend of hers and died. Fortunately after a few calls to cps and giving details about the home situation along with past violence and neglect of her oldest child, they took the two foster kids out of the home.


Fortunately in your case the children have a parent who can teach them empathy and to live without hatred, jealousy and violence.

I strongly urge you though to focus on the kids and not worry about the ex and his explosive relationship. Nothing you can do would make a difference and why get involved in their sickness anyway. Be thankful to be only on the outside of that powderkeg. Do damage control in regards to the emotional health of the kids, continue to keep records and stay calm without resorting to their level. Continue to allow the children to receive help from a therapist because witnessing violence is very damaging to a child. Not only does all this you are doing help in case of more upcoming legal issues, it also models to the children a better way to handle things. The farther away from people like this, the better.

At this point, just count down the days until you no longer have to be in contact with them because of the kids and not worry about what is going on their relationship. If he is unable to follow through with the court orders it may be sooner rather than later.

I wish you luck.

i read that sociopaths actually end up with people a lot who are borderline etc., it said how volatile the relationships are. i agree dont spend your energy wondering whats going on with them even just curiosity is taking up precious time from you working on you.im sure that what goes on behind closed doors is nothing but a mind f*** on both there parts and a disaster waiting to happen.

I'm sorry I don't have more time to respond but it's a work day...

And I understand where you're coming from sparkly, but there's no predicting what they'll do. I've seen these relationships blow up in 2 years time and I've seen others go on for a decade. I see new cases every single day. They vary.

The bottom line is they're both likely obsessed with you but for different reasons. Drama is their link to you... drama keeps them both tied to you. Remember: brief and factual communications only.

If she writes for him something long and accusatory, you respond with something like this:
"We will see you Thursday at 5 p.m. for the exchange."

Nothing more.
Keep trekkin' on. It gets easier and more clear over time as long as you remain low/no contact.

I haven't spent a lot of time and energy thinking about her psych symptoms before, a seed was planted in my brain when I was told that my ex has not emailed me for quite some time. Of course I knew she is a bad influence and not a nice person but actually thinking about it and especially when I wrote on here cemented the idea in my head that she is a P or something similar and quite possibly worse than him. I had previously chalked her behavior up to jealousy.

I haven't spent a whole lot of time thinking about it to be honest. I was just looking to see if anyone had any similar stories.

Having two P's in their house doesn't really affect my plans with my children. They still have counselling etc. I am lucky he lives far enough away that he cannot just stop by . he also can't be assed phoning his own children during the week to keep in touch . bonus for me and the kids.

It was late 2012 when I realized he was never going to change and what I had to do was focus on helping my children cope and change the way we communicate - low contact. Aagard family that is the type of thing I write back. If I get a two page email I skim it for relevant questions/ information and respond only with fact no opinions. As if I were writing to a stranger.

I however am an analyzer. Its so damn hard to analyze a P. Though it is so much easier when you k ow a lot about it. The emails actually tell me a completely different story now when I "decode" them. Makes me feel a bit better and warns me of what they are doing behind my back.

In addition I have now had threats that he is going to get custody of our youngest child. 14 months ago I would've been in a panic. This time I told him to serve papers if he was going to do that 2 weeks gone by and no papers.

I'm not sure if I said but five years ago in court I got railroaded. My ex completely fooled them. I know his tactics now and will not allow this to happen. If we end up in court I am going for everything I want including an " undertaking" where he promises not to send abusive emails etc and if you violate that you get a restraining order.

My mind just wants some stories of what to expect when there are two of these crazies out to get you. I do have the feeling that SHE would stop at nothing g to destroy me :(

Coraliex

Again, since N/S/P's pretty much all use the same play book, this is my take:

He's letting her write you for him because :
#1...he knows it upsets you,
#2...he knows it excites her,
#3...he's playing the victim, which is what ALL N/S/P's do, and he's playing you two against each other,
#4...he can't be held accountable if anything pops up in an email that could land him in trouble because all he has to say is "Oh, I didn't know she wrote that" or "that wasn't me".

I'm in the exact same boat. Out of the hundreds of crazy letters/emails I've received from my alleged "ex-husband" (I was able to use an IP address tracker and prove it was his girlfriend behind the pen-name), I can tell when my ex writes me versus when she writes me. It's obvious my ex is still a compulsive liar because in most of the letters I get, the person who is writing them has no clue as to what's going on. They will be completely wrong about subject matter or what the ex and I talked about in person.

I do understand the frustration. It's hard to prove his character or show his anger issues when he hides behind another person but that's what these cowards do.
And I, too, have no doubt that my ex's new wife would do anything to destroy me. I treat her the same way that I treat my ex: I don't engage.

Your ex's wife could actually be a benefit to you in court. Whereas N/S/P's are good at fooling others, people who live with them aren't and end up looking crazy. Use that to you advantage. If they take you to court, immediately depose her. Prove that it's not a good environment to raise a child.

I just found out a month ago that my ex P was with my girlfriend. This was happening right from underneath my nose and of course they both denied it. He is a psychopath and she is a narc. I found out after a year that everything I suspected was true. I have two daughters 22 and 24. The youngest one judges me for being upset a year later about it. I am upset as I just found out and my pain is very raw. I asked my daughter how she was doing with her break up of a few months ago despite the fact that she judges me. She said she didn't want to talk about it and wanted to leave my apt. As she was putting on her shoes she called me a whore bitch (farthest thing from it) out of the blue. I told her to leave she wouldn't leave so I shoved her out. She called up her sister and lied and manipulated her sister into thinking I physically abused her when I didn't. My oldest now will not let me see my grandson only in public places as I have an anger problem she said. This is not true!! The situation was manipulated. My grandson loves me with pure love and I him. He is my reason for living. I am devastated and they are the only family I have here. I am suicidal and this is pain beyond anything I can handle. As far as the ex and her? I do believe that that relationshit will be full of lies manipulation mistrust etc. As far as my girls and my grandson? My heart is ripped open real bad.