If you go back to the Group Home page, there is a post at the top for the PCL-R (the Psychopathy Checklist). That is one tool used to diagnose a psychopath. It is probably unlikely that your psychologist could diagnose her as a psychopath unless you have a lot of inside info about her life. It is very rare for females to be psychopaths, but they do exist. Psychopathy is sort of a subcategory of Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD). But for the purposes of this group, we consider them one in the same. There's no need to split hairs on APD, psychopaths, and sociopaths in my opinion.

The two full fledge psychopaths I've dealt with were very textbook cases, very easy to diagnose. There was no grey area. The first one was a registered sex offender, a convicted felon, a career criminal, con artist, couldn't hold a job, lived parasitically off of his dad, multiple divorces and short term relationships, anger issues, violent, in and out of jail/prison, sued multiple times, stalked me for many years after I only dated him for a few months, and ultimately died of probably a drug overdose. He had been convicted of a variation of crimes from insurance fraud, sex offenses against a minor, arson, criminal damaging, stalking, etc.

The second one I dealt with was also a convicted felon, on probation for about 6 crimes of prescription fraud, forgery, deception to obtain drugs (or something like that), he lost his nursing license because he was stealing prescription pads, forging doctor's names, and using them to get OTC pain pills which he was abusing. Before that he had been fired from every hospital in the area and couldn't hold a job for long before being fired again. He conned women using aliases and false identities, often pretending to be a medical doctor and/or highly successful investor/stock broker/millionaire. He dressed to the nines, to pull this off. He would get cash advance loans to give the illusion that he was loaded, and carry around hundreds of dollars in cash. He'd never pay the loans back, get sued, never show for court, and they'd attempt to garnish his wages but he didn't have a job long enough for anyone to catch up to him. He had been sued over a dozen times in recent years. Never paid his bills, house went into foreclosure. He had a wall full of fake letters from the president and fraudulent war medals (including purple heart) as he pretended to be a war veteran (a federal crime). He was the master at creating fraudulent identities. He had conned a woman into marrying him by pretending to be a wealthy doctor and conned a realtor by pretending to be in the process of purchasing a million dollar house with this woman before she was able to figure it all out. He was working at a local college as the head of the nursing dept although he didn't possess any of the certifications required to do this job as they had all been revoked when he was convicted of his felonies. But he conned this college into thinking otherwise. Legally, that meant that any students under him would have their credits voided because he was not legally able to teach. He was on probation and in a court mandated rehab program. He also spoke with a thick fake (but very believable) British accent. He compartmentalized everyone in his life so that nobody knew the real him. Everyone had a different version of the story and he managed to keep them all straight. Even a woman who had been married to him for 12 years had no idea the true extent of his behavior.

These are textbook examples of sociopaths.

Basically, it takes a lot of looking into their background to be able to find out if they are a psychopath or not. You have to see how their behavior has been over a long period of time (psychopathy must start before the age of 15).

If they managed to be in a long term relationship/marriage, they can sometimes stay out of trouble during that time. But then as soon as they lose that anchor, they spiral out of control. That's been the case in the ones I've seen.

If you are just looking at current dysfunctional behavior, they could fall into a huge range of personality disorders as there is a huge overlap in PD behavior from one PD to another, even from one cluster to another. They are very hard to distinguish without having a LOT of data to go on.

Feel free to describe the behavior of the female in question if you'd like people to weigh in on it.

Thank you....I did the checklist and because some of the info I don't have I gave her the benefit of the doubt and just gave her a zero for then questions I don't know the answer to, and with that she got a score of 26.

Thank you for allowing me to describe her and if you could weigh in on it I would be grateful.

• She is beautiful, charismatic, congenial, intelligent , and owns her reputation
• She has a trophy husband.
• She showers people with gifts, and her flowery personality...full of praises, and uses very flowery and over the top dramatic language.
• She works fast and systematically, one step at a time.
• It seemed like she loved our family and just had to have it.
• She very quickly opens up with one and tells them very personal things about herself.
• She had told me she became very sick from taking anti depressants over the stated dosage because she couldn’t deal with her mother in law.
• She told me she has a serious heart condition that she could abruptly die from and then just burst out laughing.
• She is extremely invasive and tries to get one to open up with their inner lives.
• She tries to get one paranoid and to believe others are thinking negative things about them.
• She has constant drama in her life and can't maintain friendships.
• She looks strangely at people’s faces. Sometimes stares as if in awe and says nothing. I'm not the only one who has said this about her.
• She thinks nothing of stealing your husband.
• She maintains an affair whilst being married.
• When I cut my very brief relationship with her she acted like it was the end of the world and she would never be able to trust anyone again and that that was my fault, and because I cut my tie with her she will never try to make a new friend again.
• She is extremely manipulative, and calculating.
• She lacks guilt or remorse, and projects blame onto anything other than herself.
• She is depressed and most probably on medication.
• She believes everyone is against her, yet appears to have a lot of friends.
• She lacks empathy, and could care less about anyone.
• She seems to be somewhat fearless as she had no problem coming into my home daily sleeping with my husband and cooking for him while I was away, even though my maid was there and she would park her car outside for all to see (she's married and we are in an Islamic country which adds to the weight of what Im saying)
• I believe she is most likely promiscuous.
• She lies.
• In the affair with my husband it went from showering with attention and love to constant criticism and lying with no ability to change.
• Once the luring stage of the affair passed, her mood or personality could change in a heartbeat with no warning , just out of nowhere.
• There were several instances when she told me what I've done wrong to/with my husband and she would relish in the fact that she and him are an item and that she knows how to treat him.
• She destroyed valuable property of mine in a jealous rage. My husband said the rage came out of nowhere, and he could not control her as he said when he tried she would scream and just go ballistic.
• She tried to attack me one evening in front of my little girl when I ran into her and asked her to stop giving my children gifts. She screamed profanities at me and came chasing me and tried to get me out of the car. I was able to escape her but she followed me to my home. But when she got there, chickened out and drove off.
• Upon my husband trying to let her know it's over she refuses to release him and threatens him.
• I seriously believe she has altered my husbands mind, that he can no longer think clearly and he is incapable of breaking it off with her, and I'm just not sure exactly why.

Sorry for the long read but I wanted to give as much information to describe her as possible. Thanks.

A lot of what you described sounds more like borderline PD. And I'll include the DSM criteria for BPD at the bottom so you can read about it. These are the bullets that to me, sound like BPD, some of them are also characteristics of APD, but some of them are not:

• She showers people with gifts, and her flowery personality...full of praises, and uses very flowery and over the top dramatic language.
• She very quickly opens up with one and tells them very personal things about herself.
• She is extremely invasive and tries to get one to open up with their inner lives.
• She has constant drama in her life and can't maintain friendships.
• When I cut my very brief relationship with her she acted like it was the end of the world and she would never be able to trust anyone again and that that was my fault, and because I cut my tie with her she will never try to make a new friend again.
• She is depressed and most probably on medication.
• I believe she is most likely promiscuous.
• She lies.
• In the affair with my husband it went from showering with attention and love to constant criticism and lying with no ability to change.
• Once the luring stage of the affair passed, her mood or personality could change in a heartbeat with no warning , just out of nowhere.
• She destroyed valuable property of mine in a jealous rage. My husband said the rage came out of nowhere, and he could not control her as he said when he tried she would scream and just go ballistic.
• She tried to attack me one evening in front of my little girl when I ran into her and asked her to stop giving my children gifts. She screamed profanities at me and came chasing me and tried to get me out of the car. I was able to escape her but she followed me to my home. But when she got there, chickened out and drove off.
• Upon my husband trying to let her know it's over she refuses to release him and threatens him.


Some of that stuff, like the anger/rage, could also be a symptom of APD, but the stuff like opening up right away and expecting the same of others is really a BPD trait, not APD. And depression is not really seen in psychopaths because they have really shallow emotions. The abandonment issues are BPD. Lying is seen in both disorders. Both disorders are manipulative. I guess a big difference between the two is that APDs are generally more stoic. They have very shallow emotions and don't show much emotion except anger usually. BPDs are very emotional. They are all over the place. Extreme emotions. Extremely happy, extremely depressed, extremely angry, etc. They're never in between. BPDs have a strong sense of guilt and shame (whether they show it or not is another story). They believe they are bad or evil. Psychopaths (APD) don't really give a crap. But it's very hard to tell if someone feels bad or not. Because sometimes people feel bad but don't let on that they feel bad. Some people don't feel bad, like psychopaths, but pretend they feel bad and apologize because they know it's the "normal" thing to do. Psychopaths do the devalue and discard, which BPDs can also do but normally their fear of abandonment keeps them hanging on (which it sounds like is what's going on here). BPD is far more common in women than in men and APD is 3x more common in men than women. So it's hard to say, but either way, she's definitely got a PD, a cluster B PD. Which is not good.

Does her husband know about her affair? I think your husband probably falls for this girl's guilt trip and that's what lures him back into it. Have you tried counseling? He needs to set very firm boundaries, whatever PD she has. No contact is the best way to deal with either of these disorders because as long as they have an in, they will keep sucking you back for more.

Here is the DSM description of BPD:

Borderline Personality Disorder

Diagnostic Criteria
A pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects,
and marked impulsivity, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment. (Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.)

A pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation.

Identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self.

Impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating). (Note: Do not include suicidal or self-mutilating behavior covered in Criterion 5.)

Recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior.

Affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days).

Chronic feelings of emptiness.

Inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights).

Transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms.


Diagnostic Features
The essential feature of borderline personality disorder is a pervasive pattern of instability of interpersonal relationships, self-image, and affects, and marked impulsivity that begins by early adulthood and is present in a variety of contexts.

Individuals with borderline personality disorder make frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment (Criterion 1). The perception of impending separation or rejection, or the loss of external structure, can lead to profound changes in self-image, affect, cognition, and behavior. These individuals are very sensitive to environmental circumstances. They experience intense abandonment fears and inappropriate anger even when faced with a realistic time-limited separation or when there are unavoidable changes in plans (e.g., sudden despair in reaction to a clinician's announcing the end of the hour; panic or fury when someone important to them is just a few minutes late or must cancel an appointment). They may believe that this ”abandonment” implies they are ”bad.” These abandonment fears are related to an intolerance of being alone and a need to have other people with them. Their frantic efforts to avoid abandonment may include impulsive actions such as self-mutilating or suicidal behaviors, which are described separately in Criterion 5.
Individuals with borderline personality disorder have a pattern of unstable and intense relationships (Criterion 2). They may idealize potential caregivers or lovers at the first or second meeting, demand to spend a lot of time together,and share the most intimate details early in a relationship. However, they may switch quickly from idealizing other people to devaluing them, feeling that the other person does not care enough, does not give enough, or is not ”there” enough. These individuals can empathize with and nurture other people, but only with the expectation that the other person will “be there” in return to meet their own needs on demand. These individuals are prone to sudden and dramatic shifts in their view of others, who may alternatively be seen as beneficent supports or as cruelly punitive. Such shifts often reect disillusionment with a caregiver whose nurturing qualities had been idealized or whose rejection or abandonment is expected.

There may be an identity disturbance characterized by markedly and persistently unstable self-image or sense of self (Criterion 3). There are sudden and dramatic shifts in self-image, characterized by shifting goals, values, and vocational aspirations. There may be sudden changes in opinions and plans about career, sexual identity, values, and types of friends. These individuals may suddenly change from the role of a needy supplicant for help to that of a righteous avenger of past mistreatment. Although they usually have a self-image that is based on being bad or evil, individuals with this disorder may at times have feelings that they do not exist at all. Such experiences usually occur in situations in which the individual feels a lack of a meaningful relationship, nurturing, and support. These individuals may show worse performance in unstructured work or school situations.

Individuals with borderline personality disorder display impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (Criterion 4). They may gamble, spend money irresponsibly, binge eat, abuse substances, engage in unsafe sex, or drive recklessly. Individuals with this disorder display recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior (Criterion 5). Completed suicide occurs in 8%-10% of such individuals, and self-mutilative acts (e.g., cutting or burning) and suicide threats and attempts are very common. Recurrent suicidality is often the reason that these individuals present for help. These self-destructive acts are usually precipitated by threats of separation or rejection or by expectations that the individual assumes increased responsibility. Self-mutilation may occur during dissociative experiences and often brings relief by reafrming the ability to feel or by expiating the individual’s sense of being evil.

Individuals with borderline personality disorder may display affective instability that is due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days) (Criterion 6). The basic dysphoric mood of those with borderline personality disorder is often disrupted by periods of anger, panic, or despair and is rarely relieved by periods of well-being or satisfaction. These episodes may reect the individual’s extreme reactivity to interpersonal stresses. Individuals with borderline personality disorder may be troubled by chronic feelings of emptiness (Criterion 7). Easily bored, they may constantly seek something to do. Individuals with this disorder frequently express inappropriate, intense anger or have difficulty controlling their anger (Criterion 8). They may display extreme sarcasm, enduring bitterness, or verbal outbursts. The anger is often elicited when a caregiver or lover is seen as neglectful, withholding, uncaring, or abandoning. Such expressions of anger are often followed by shame and guilt and contribute to the feeling they have of being evil. During periods of extreme stress, transient paranoid ideation or dissociative symptoms (e-g., depersonalization) may occur (Criterion 9), but these are generally of insufficient severity or duration to warrant an additional diagnosis. These episodes occur most frequently in response to a real or imagined abandonment. Symptoms tend to be transient, lasting minutes or hours. The real or perceived return of the caregiver’s nurturance may result in a remission of symptoms.

Associated Features Supporting Diagnosis
Individuals with borderline personality disorder may have a pattern of undermining themselves at the moment a goal is about to be realized (e g. dropping out of school just before graduation; regressing severely after a discussion of how well therapy is going; destroying a good relationship just when it is clear that the relationship could last). Some individuals develop psychotic-like symptoms (e.g., hallucinations, body-image distortions, ideas of reference, hypnagogic phenomena) during times of stress. Individuals with this disorder may feel more secure with transitional objects (i.e., a pet or inanimate possession) than in interpersonal relationships. Premature death from suicide may occur in individuals with this disorder, especially in those with co occurring depressive disorders or substance use disorders. Physical handicaps may result from self-inicted abuse behaviors of failed suicide attempts. Recurrent job losses, interrupted education, and separation or divorce are common. Physical and sexual abuse, neglect, hostile conflict, and early parental loss are more common in the childhood histories of those with borderline personality disorder. Common co-occurring disorders include depressive and bipolar disorders, substance use disorders, eating disorders (notably bulimia nervosa), posttraumatic stress disorder, and attention-deficit / hyperactivity disorder. Borderline personality disorder also frequently co-occurs with the other personality disorders.

Thank you very much for that extensive information.

If her husband does know about the affair he for some reason turning a blind eye. This is a mystery to me. I do know that they have a lot more space in their marriage than my husband and I did, so she can get away with lying to her husband more and she has a lot more alabis of where she could be. The sick thing is my husband invited her and her husband along with my husband on a trip in October and they stayed in his villa. So right in front of her husband were they conducting their affair. I'm not saying they shared intimacy during that trip but the emotional affair was going on right in front of her husband. She has been married to her husband for about 12 years. I'm sure he must have seen something in her by now. She had told me she nearly divorced her husband before over mother in law issues. I don't know if her husband doesn't want to bother with her because she's such a pain in the ass, or he is having affairs of his own. My husband pretends he doesn't know what their deal is. When I asked my husband flat out does her husband have his head buried in the sand or is she just a great actress, he replied probably a bit of both.

As far as my husband is concerned, he began trying to come back to me about 6 weeks ago, which regressed a week ago abruptly after our first couples therapy together. He dropped me like a hot potato. As soon after we left the counseling center I mentioned to him what he said in the session regarding his fears as to why he isn't able to leave her, he had said he doesn't want her to think he lied to her or used her. I told him that proves he cares for her after he had told me so many times that he no longer cares for her or cares what she thinks. He said it's not like that. He always is able to tell me what it's not but never able to tell me what it is. So I asked him is it because he doesn't want to be seen as the bad guy, and he said yes. He has issues with saying no, being rejected and feeling like he lets people down. (never mind he does it to me). After we left in separate cars he called me after a few minutes obviously she had been buzzing him off the hook the whole time we were in therapy, and he returned her call where she was hysterical and accusing him of being with me. She had driven by his mother's house (where he is living now) and by my house and saw neither of our cars home and assumed we were together. She demanded to meet him. He said he refused but assured her he wasn't with me. After hanging up he sent me a text asking me not to call him , only to text him. Later in the evening I called him and he told me he didn't want to talk and that he had all the information he needed on how to deal with everything and that he needed peace and quiet for a few days. I'm afraid I gave him everything other than peace and quiet. So it's been a week now and he has basically dropped me like a hot potato. We are supposed to have therapy tomorrow. I'm pretty sure he won't be showing up. I asked him if he were and he said he would think about it and let me know. He hasn't

Wow, this is horrible. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. Your husband's behavior is extremely disrespectful to you. Nevermind her behavior. Don't use her as an excuse for his behavior. His behavior is outrageous. He should have cut ties with her completely. There is nothing than can come of their relationship, unless she plans on leaving her husband for yours, so there's no reason for him to maintain contact with her. For him to avoid you is ridiculous. I can understand needing space to think but he should not be maintaining contact with her and trying to appease her. This whole situation is a disaster. You deserve way more respect than this. He should be begging you to go to therapy and fix this. He should be doing everything possible to fix his mistake.

I agree with you. And that's what is leading me to believe that his problems are way more than I could have known. Today we have couples therapy. I'm sure he won't show up, so I'm hoping the therapist will give me some insight as to what his problem is. He seems completely incapable of running his life and telling anyone including me what he really wants. And it seems that he himself doesn't even know what he wants. He is miserable, nothing makes him happy and seems to have no meaning in his life. I blame myself for being so blind for so long. But the marriage appeared good to me so why would I go and look for red flags?