Absolutely, and it had caused many disagreements over the years.

My h has certainly had his fair share of not joining in, or shutting down in social settings. Most SA's have low self esteem, and suffer shame and guilt from them not being able to stop acting out. (I say most because i suppose narcisists don't have low self esteem, as they aren't doing anything wrong, so therefore no guilt)
My h always felt like everyone could tell he was a bad person or not worthy because of his lack of control. Or felt they were judging him. Again guilt and shame is manifested in this kind of thinking.

Another thing that is common amongst SA's, and also my h, is that they suffer intimacy issues. They struggle to be intimate, or get at an emotionally intimate level. They just find it hard to let anyone else in, as they might find out the truth about them. Porn is not intimate, neither are brothels, or massages, so it feeds into their thinking, and continues to enable them to close themselves off from others.

So its one thing to hit rock bottom, and work at recovery and over coming your urges and not act out again, but its also very important to ........
work on and overcome the self esteem issues,
work on releasing the shame and guilt,
work on being able to be intimate, socially and emotionally again

For us personally this has been hard work.
I understand your angst, many times we would visit, even family, and he would sit in the other room and watch the football instead of joining in on casual chatting, annoying me no-end!!

Yes this behaviour is linked to his PA, i believe

Thanks Trina. This has really upset me, especially because this isn't the first time he has done something like this. He even did it with his own family at Christmas time. He has no social skills and I am a very social person. I also knew deep down I would have had a better time with my family had he not been there, as then I don't feel like I have to engage him in conversation. I am mad about this and mad that he disrespected my family. What also saddens me is that the BF sees nothing wrong with his behavior...

This addiction is just too much for me to fight.. I give everyone on here who has stuck by their men all the credit I can muster because I don't feel I can go on with a man that has the emntal maturity of a two year old.

Alot of it for me is that he isn't in recovery. While he tells me he hasn't looked at P in a year, there is ALOT more to this addiction than just "viewing P'.... he doesn't get it and I don't think he ever will and I am tired of trying to be his teavher and change a man who doesn't wanna change and sees no reason to.

If you've ever listened to Dr. Laura, her response to your plight would be to simply stop inviting him places. =)

In all seriousness, though, its can really only be 1 of 3 things: either he is completely oblivious to his behavior, orbhe lacks any form of self-esteem OR he is simply rude. If he is completely oblivious (in that he really is unaware of attempts at small talk), then its going to take practice and a non-emotional, unrelated person to mention it to him (somehow we women come across as nagging....ridiculous!). If its self esteem he's going to need counseling. If its rudeness, well, follow Dr. Laura's advice.

Hope it works out. Question, though: have you brought this up to him? And are you timid around him?

YES, yes, yes, this sounds like my husband. And, to tell the truth, I'm not sure which came first: the porn, or the social anxiety. And, actually, he is not sure either. When we first met, we were kids around the age of 13 and his initial use of porn began a year or so after that age. But, anyway, I do remember him NOT being so anxious. And, yet, at the same time, I have always thought him to be somewhat more anxious than the average person. So, was the PA a way to fight his anxiety, or a cause, or both?

CaliMommy, I have brought this up when it first happened at a friends house about a year ago, and he apologized and said he just doesn't feel comfortable around people he doesn't know. He did it again with my family,but this past weekend, he was just down right rude and inconsiderate and my parents were shocked. I even called my mom to apologize for his behavior. Have I talked to him about this latest incident? NO.. I am still too angry to talk to him about it. But he is totally oblvious to it. He has no clue that anything is wrong. My aunt went to give him a hug goodbye and he said no thanks... she said what I can't give you a hug and he put his hands up as if to stop her and he said "No, I think I'll pass"!!! I couldn't believe he did that!!!

My X was like this too. People would think he was very strange and cold.
I think there is a possibility that once he got so far into his addiction that his ability to know what people could see of him was altered. In other words, he was afraid to get anywhere close to people because he was not sure how well he was hiding himself. The tactics he used with me, which led to my doubting myself and my perceptions, or just giving up the fight - would not work in a social setting.

I really think their grasp of reality is so altered that they don't know how to act anymore in a normal setting, or how they appear. Also, I'm not sure he could keep focused on anything without slipping into a fantasy.

Wow, so much here for me to reply to..my H was the same way around me and my kids, and both our extended families..and I could never figure it out...until I discovered his SA....and since mine won't talk I do ot truly know the reasons but I have some guesses...

At first my H was very social with me and my kids and my family...it was all an act...the seduciton of an SA on a new sexual conquest....his SA was there when we met and I do think that he used the P very minimally at first but it was always there and as the newness of our sexual relationship wore off...his ability to put up the act of mr nice guy wore off too...and gardually he turned into his true self....It was slow at first, but as he became more and more antisocial I took that advice above and went places without him....this made my kids and I happy as he just brought us down when he came along...but it also allowed him more free time to spiral downward into his addiction...which in turn made him crankier and crankier...

This I think is one of the true reasons at least for my H's antisocial behavior...he was an addict who could not pursue his addiciton when he was with us...so whether he did it on purpose to drive us away and give him more time or just that he was incapable of hiding his dissatisfaction with our relationship as a result of the P use and he no longer had to pretend to be nice or exert effort since he was no longer interested in me..I do not know...he is a narcissist and very selfcentered and never does anything for anyone unless there is something in it for him...once he had conquered me sexually there was nothing in it for him, no reason to be nice, oh except just civil enough to keep me around to take care of him like his mom...

I have come to realize that his behavior towards his family and mine are related to his issues with his Mom, and his jealousy towards his siblings....he also as a narcissist needs to be the center of attention which he is not at family functions...and that makes him unhappy.....

I am sure there is alos much truth to the fact that the less he said the less he might give away about his secret life...so not wanting to get caught, he got more and more quiet as the years went on and his SA progressed....I have no idea if it has anything to do with guilt shame or remorse as personally my H has never seemed guilty, shameful or remorseful about any of his behaviors...defends them to the limit and chooses not to admit his problem or get help.....so like you, this is difficult and too much for me to deal with, so I have detached....I no longer debate with him on the right and wrong of his actions...they are all ok with him...so conversely I don't worry about other people knowing or seeing his behavior...afterall he thinks it is ok, so I let him act how he wants and I do not cover for him.


Oh and I would advise against apologizing for his behavior to anyone..it is his behavior and his reponsibility and the sooner he learns to face the music himself the better...you apologizing for him is like covering for him and he will continue to let you cover him as long as you will do it. i was the one who always made all the effort, evenwith HIS family and it only served as a cover to the world for his behavior...they all thought he was fine as I had brought him back into his family, whom he did not associate with until I came along.....now of course some refuse to believe his true nature and think I am the crazy one! That is all the thanks I got for trying to get him to interactwith them in a friendly normal manner. Amazing how good they are at hiding that even when the truth is out people still cannot believe it....truly it is not only us spouses that live in denial but most of the other people around the SA too. which makes it seem very unfair to me that everyone thinks I am the only one who was in denial or codependent....his family and friends have known him his whole life and they did not now, yet I was supposed to be allknowing and allseeing....

ok gotta go...hope you take care of yourself! Have a good day

ps I also came to find that when I spoke to hs Mom about his crankiness, her response was to "let dave be mean dave"..so that tol dme a lot about how he became a narcissist...dear mommy let him do whatever he wanted as a kid and never punished him until he got into real trouble and then she laid it on thick...without any explanation or care...

and while he convinced the therapist he has no scial skills and has trouble with intimacy...he certainly had no trouble with them when he courted me...or at least a pretext of them....and i have seen him act all charming with others as well...only people he either has to, like his boss, or people he wants somehting from....

drptrials, so much of what you say resonates with me!
My X was very good at trapping me, and gave up the pretense once I was a sure thing. Once I heard him on the phone with a colleague, and he was so kind, so considerate! I actually felt like crying, because at that moment I recognized just how far we had gone down the path of him treating me like a doormat, like an irritant, and also treating our child that way.
I asked him about it and he said, "it's work. I have to be that way. I'm so glad when I don't have to make that effort." In other words, it was all fake. And a relief to give up the pretense.
For anyone who is not yet committed, or at least does not have children yet, keep this in mind. Most people can only keep up the pretense for a certain time. Take your time to see who the partner really is. Don't mistake his urgency for passion or love. It might be just getting the high-effort phase over with before that initial energy runs out.

Yes...so painful to be treated unkindly rudely disrespectfully by someone you love...what is Oprah says...love is not supposed to hurt...but it hurts even mre when you come to see the evidence that they treat others better...for me seeing my H's emails flattering and being all sweet and nice and calling them pretty and all that when he had never ever made a flattering comment on my body or appearance ever....wow, like twisting the knife.....

which makes my irreverent sense of humor kick in...sorry if I offend anyone here as this may not be the place..but any of you ladies who have not seen Chicago should rent it...my favorite is the Cell block Tango where al the ladies on death row for killing their H's and BFs do a numder....it is the best....especially the one that catches her BF cheating and she says they argued and he ran into her knife...he ran into her knife 10 times! lol! sorry ladies, but I know from Sanon groups the thought has crossed most of our minds at one time or another! doesn't make us bad...make su shuman...it is afterall what the legal defense of a crime of passion was created for.....and that was used by a man who caught his wife cheating first! it hurts men as much as it does women....so don't let them tell you are just a weak emtional jealous insecure woman with self esteem....the ones with no selfesteem are the ones they like to use for their sexual pleasure....and it is becasue we have self esteem that we are enraged at being cheated on....cheated out of what was promised to be ours..our H/BF's undivided attention....

ok, gotta go...Goodluck Ladies! We are not alone...this is becoming epidemic and we are only the first generations to really suffer the effects of our men growing up with porn..thanx Hugh Hefner...Cosmo says the latest trend among young men is that they ALL prefer to masturbate to porn than have sex?! Can you imagine? What is wrong them that they cannot see how ridiculous that is? To live in a fantasy world instead of enjoying real women....ok got on a rant ...sorry....Be strong!

I do believe most of you laides hit the nail right on the head. It's all an ACT... I am beginning to see that my BF has no real cares in the world (I just wrote about it in a new thread)...

I have come to realzie that he won't change and I need to begin to detach. When he asked me the other night to help him write an email to his child, it triggered for me that he can't even take 10 minutes out of his day to really do some deep seraching and write his child an email. A child that he has minimal contact with, a child he says he wants a real relationship with yet he can't take anytime to write to her. I refused to help him... But it also made me realize that he just doesn't care about anything.. That pretty much sealed it for me. If he can't care about his own flesh and blood, something he created but he expects me to believe he cares about me? He admitted that he doesn't care about himself..

Just a huge eye opener for me. He wanted to go shopping on Sunday but I just couldn't stomach being out in public with him so I told him I just wanted to stay home.. So he didn't go out either.

I do agree that I shouldn't be apologizing on his behalf, but I felt so bad for my Mom, she didn't deserve it. I still haven't even mentioned it to him... Why should I? He doesn't see it and I am tired of pointing it out. I think like some of the SA's out there his mother toggeled him as he is the baby. She gave him a place to stay when he stopped drinking and didn't push him to get a job, or find a place to live. He has gotten used to being taken care of.

Now that I realize that he won't change, is incapable of change, and sees no reason to change, I need to begin to detach..