Mary, I am so, so sorry. That sounds AWFUL. I don't even know how to express how awful. I do hope you have a therapist of your own, because it really would help. You need a therapist you can talk to about this.

thank you Maydeline..It does help knowing someone cares, and listens..
I actually had to discontinue my therapist last week, so "we" could see this man together.(insurance only covers one)
.I may have to rethink that now.. I do need to talk about this in an environment where I feel safe.

Dear Mary, I remember feeling as if I had been dropped into the center of an insane asylum in the weeks after I learned of my H's SA. This CSAT seemed to be so good when you first saw them but this visit sounds ... well, nonsensical!

My H and I really struggled to find a therapist who really understood the breadth of his problems. His first psych put him on notice that if he talked about doing things to either animals or underage girls, he'd be forced to report him. I know that there is a legal issue but honestly, how was my H going to get better if he had to be careful about what he confided? H pushed the issue a little and talked him about teenage girls in the mid age range and the psych responded by saying that it was normal, even fine for middle aged men to fantasize over them. Even H knew that his problems went deeper than that and quickly found a new therapist. One who gets it.

Oh yes, the first guy told H that absolute honesty wasn't necessary. It seems, not with him and not with me either. In those days, H and I were still considering making a go of the marriage. Sometimes I wonder where these guys are coming from.

If you sometimes get the filling that the earth is a dinner plate and some malevolent giant has just tipped it sideways. You're right! But it's not you. It's almost impossible to walk through the SA landscape with sane eyes! Not much makes sense :)

Hi Mary I too had a crazy experience with a CSAT. I went to her to try to sort out where I was going to fit in all this madness. Instead she asked me inappropriate details of my H's acting outand then proceeded to tellme in some countries certain things are considered the "norm". Needless to say I left feeling worse than when I went in. I have found a new therapist who deals with Trauma. I have my second session today. I also did couples for over a year with my H but realized I need help healing and not with him present. He goes alone and I am going alone. Eventually we will go back to couples but for now the "we" thing is on hold.

I think that you can only deal with one thing at a time. Your H's porn preference is stirring up some old wounds that you need to deal with alone. At this stage "spicing up your sex life" is not a priority, usually feeling safe is.

Don't give up on finding the help YOU deserve. Hugs.

Mary I am so sorry that you felt unheard, invisible, diminished and dismissed during your session.

Please bring compassion and empathy to yourself over your helplessness over this situation. You cannot be judged because you are unable to have sx with your husband under such difficult circumstances. I can completely understand this.

I also feel that as promising as this therapist seemed intially, he completely went off track. Neither you or your H are in any position to have intimacy at this point in recovery.

In reading "Do I have to give up me to be Loved by God" By Margaret Paul, she says that sx needs to be an act of sharing love without getting something in return. It cannot be based on caretaking and/or taking. The divine love of God must come through us to share with others especially in such intimate moments and as spouses we are not in a position to do this with our H especially early on in recovery.

Spouses can feel the difference between sharing love with your Hs as opposed to having to do our wifely duties so our Hs can be satisfied, or getting sx from our Hs because we feel we need a connection and not getting that connection.

SAs must have sobriety in their recovery and some experts advise 3-6 months in recovery in order to return balance brain chemistry. Otherwise, the SA is having sx because they feel lust,not love. Lust is what drives the SAs and in having sx with their spouses they are essentially objectifying their wives instead of sharing love with them.

My hope is that you find your voice and stand up for your inner child who needs you to not abandon her. It takes a long time to do this. I am still working on this myself without my own child/adult stepping in for me and acting out of fear. Hugs!!!

Ok...I am not as calm as the other responses....it infuriates me that you had this awful and inappropriate encounter on the SECOND meeting. Sex is the LAST thing to be addressed and as wach said most therapists and csat's mostly advise a break in sexual relations to deal with your trauma and have the brain of the SA "calm down" which obviously your h's needs to. Wow, I think I am so angry because I feel I and we were also mismanaged and wasted time and my emotional energy when I had none.

We also stopped couples counseling because it was fruitless until my trauma was dealt with and I have spent thousands trying to get there. The most effective investment for me to deal with my trauma has been EMDR treatments and innerbonding. www.innerbonding.com I would still be talking in circles without these two treatments.

Mary, I would get your voice here even if in writing and tell that person how inappropriate it was to even consider your sexual relationship until the other had been addressed. Not get into it with your h at all but get your voice heard by that idiot professional and I use that term loosely. I normally never tell people what to do like this but this just really pisses me off.

Please Please you are as important as your h in dealing with all of this and deserve the same opportunities with a good therapist.

Mary: I am SO sorry! Here's what I feel about your situation and your feelings. Luv ya Sweetie! I'll start with a big HUG! You need one! And you deserve one! Wish I could do it for real!

Here's the voice of my experience. It is SO good that you know you're not ready. And also that "you" know what the reall issues are and are not diverted from them. I'm glad you know that! And, I found it often took me a while to sort out my feelings before speaking them. Sometimes minutes, hours, sometimes days, sometimes months. Nothing wrong with that. I believe that the therapist is way off point! And, at some point, could use a good...hello...what are you thinking and where do you think you're going? I can't even imagine the logic of that session. And, your husband's commentary and behavior was absolutely insensitive and careless. It is SO good that you refused to particpate in things with him that are not beneficial to you. That "IS' very healthy! And good that you were able to express at least that much of your feelings in such a considerate way!. Also, very healthy!

You aren't small! You are very large! You are very kind! You are very considerate and yet aware! And you are also very right! You said, "he gets distant, angry, shamed, and very turned off." Good! What is shame but an indicator of internal wrong? Let him feel what he feels...let him experience the results of his behavior. Let him figure out what "reality" is. That is what he really needs to do. It would be in his best interest that "he" find why "he" feels shame. If he does feel shame, then why he does is an indicator to internal wrongdoings. Maybe ask him that question. You say you feel shame...why? What is it that you're ashamed of? Why is he angry? What does he have to be angry about? Who is he angry with? It would be wise for him to find out why. Turned off? One could only hope so! I think that I felt my H needed to be "turned off" to all the wrong things...and learning about the right ones! You are right on target! Let him figure his own emotional truth. That is his job to do. His therapist should be working with him to that end. You are in touch with yours. That's very good!

Thing is...that "you" know what disturbs you. And, both your H and the psych should be aware of what that is. And, you can choose to share that when "you" feel it's the right time to do that. Just because you were silent in the moment, doesn't mean you will be silent when you've thought about your feelings. You shared "for fear of getting my H angry again, or having the therapist think I was being selfish." Here's what I found about that...for me. That's one of the first things I had to address. As long as I allowed myself to fear my Hs anger, or the therapists opinion, I couldn't address "my" problems.

This is why I have shared on many occasions this fact...that I found true for me. Until "I" became willing to lose the relationship, I could not be fully honest and share my true feelings. I had at sometime conditioned myself to tend the marriage, or others feelings....before tending my own. The marriage had become more important to me...than me. Until I came to the realization that my true feelings were "more" important than the marriage, or anyone else's opinions, I was silent too. But, when I turned my full attention to my own needs, my feelings, my emotions, my life....my Hs anger, distance, silence, or whatever he chose to do...and any therapists opinions...meant precisely nothing. I allowed that he, or they, could feel anything they chose to about my feelings and needs. And, whatever anyone chose to do, was ok with me. And, whatever they did was their indivual choice. I made the choice to be honest whatever the costs.

I intended for "my" life to become content...and...if that meant that the marriage must end...then the marriage must end. When I truly embraced that truth, I explored my feelings, and when I knew what they were, I shared that. And, if that didn't sit well with others...then so be it. That's why I share here that "truth" is the most benefical thing I learned. Because my silence was not truthful. The truth...was how I feel. And, the truth, is what I had to share to honor myself...and to give the relationship any chance at all. Just like any "good" psych would tell an SA...truth...is the only resource of benefit...they would also let the SO know the same. And, if the relationship can't bear the truth...then the relationship is not real nor beneficial to either party.

Thank you all for responding. As I said before, this forum is a lifeline for this trauma. I have received more insight and advice here than anywhere else.
First I'll respond to the comments, then I'll update on what happened last night after I posted.
Conniption: “If you sometimes get the feeling that the earth is a dinner plate and some malevolent giant has just tipped it sideways. You're right! But it's not you. It's almost impossible to walk through the SA landscape with sane eyes! Not much makes sense :)" Thank you. I needed to laugh. That image got me!! I can see that, not all therapists know the best for their patients, and in fact, many are off completely. I can’t let his credentials make me feel that, my feelings are not valid.. your post helped me see that some therapists are misguided..asking us to USE something that’s been damaged/broken, before fixing it..I also feel fortunate that we share this insane experience with the underage, and you can show me what you & your H have done to face and deal with that unacceptable behavior. Thank you again..
leenyc68
That is exactly it! The csat , as he told us, has 2 ways of looking at these issues: addiction on the one side, and fixing the sex life on the other.. He jumped into that way way too early-I think he was confused and unfocused about our history..but, at the second visit, that’s NOT a good sign..he may be too distracted, but there I go, making excuses for the CSAT!! No more;. I’m getting better—I don’t HAVE to accept things that are contrary to my good. My former therapist does deal with trauma, but,I didn’t feel we were getting to the trauma..Maybe I wasn’t ready to be completely honest..I’ll have to think more on that.thank you
Hugs!
Wachit: I feel like the best therapy I’m getting is here: I think I will look into the innerbonding.
I love what you wrote about love and God—That really touched me.. "Do I have to give up me to be Loved by God" By Margaret Paul, she says that sx needs to be an act of sharing love without getting something in return. It cannot be based on caretaking and/or taking. The divine love of God must come through us to share with others especially in such intimate moments and as spouses we are not in a position to do this with our H especially early on in recovery.

Spouses can feel the difference between sharing love with your Hs as opposed to having to do our wifely duties so our Hs can be satisfied, or getting sx from our Hs because we feel we need a connection and not getting that connection.
That is perfect..
I suppose I have suppressed my inner child; I was “aware” of her, but, very rarely do I let her “feel” that deeply” anymore. I have had glimpses of that pain in the past several years, almost always involving sex. I have to learn more, and embrace her, AND feel that it’s ok to protect her. It’s a difficult concept , but it is so very necessary right now, if I ever want to feel “whole”and have a healthy relationship with a man…. And ..It’s ok for that child to cry sometimes, even though it hurts so much, that’s the only way she has a chance to be heard, right?
Thank you so much...
Hugs!
Cynclaire: Thanks for your fired up response. I needed that too ..like I have someone in my “corner” of a boxing match.
and your comment: “Sex is the LAST thing to be addresses!” YES. That’s what I thought too
I will look into the ENDR and innerbonding. I can see it has helped many of you ladies here..
Yes, the couples counseling doesn’t feel right, and ,perhaps this needed to happen the way it did ..
, in order for me to truly FEEL, this trauma so profoundly. I would have to give that to God, protecting me always.
”

Sheenre:
Thanks for the Hugs!! I needed that..You made me feel good that I am getting in touch with this trauma and that my reaction was not only valid, but good! Thank for helping me feel “large” l
Redirecting his “reaction” back on himself about my “rejection” what very insightful.. he SHOUL be asking himself why? Why the shame? He truly does not feel the shame because he thinks its “wrong”..I know that now.. He feels shame because he hurt me, and he has to face that, and because he has “another”a addiction to face.. He does NOT see the underage porn at ALL, and in fact keeps denying that is what it was.
More on that later………… I’ll post separately about what happened last night
God bless you all, my guardian angels ..
Mary