Spouses of Sexual Addicts. Community Group
Last night, I stayed up late..thinking about all this. When I finally went to bed around 2:30, my H was still awake.
He said he couldn’t stop thinking about the session and how poorly things went when we got home.
He knew something was wrong, and that I needed to talk about it..that is hopeful, BUT he was also feeling sorry for himself about my rejecting him for sx, and feeling justified in his disappointment.
Well, at that point, the dam was ready to break.
I told him what I had been feeling. How the porn, at first, just made me feel ugly, fat, not good enough, and that was "insulting"
.Then realizing I was lied to, over and over, That made me feel "injured and angry:", That when I asked him for the polygraph, and he refused over and over, I felt "alone", deceived, confused".. BUT, when I really allowed myself to SEE these images of the teens.. to really SEE them, I saw MYSELF, my inner child..
I saw victims; I saw my daughter; I saw INNOCENCE being destroyed by evil, selfish perpetrators. And I told him, that is how I feel about him.. He is now in the category of my brother, and other men that used and abused me for their sexual pleasure.
He was remorseful. He was mad at the therapist for allowing the session to go so deeply into what "turns us on", and I wasn't able to share..
He cried, and did what he does..trying to "fix" things, HIS way. I told him I may have to find a place for myself and my children, because he will not leave or have the separation I wanted.
I tried to talk about my feelings now. I told him that, when I talk about the teen porn, he shuts down,..so, surprisingly, he did not shut down last night.
We talked about the teen porn.
He told me, " I NEVER" saw them as underaged''. I'm NOT that kind of person...They say they are over 18, so that is the way I viewed them.. on the younger spectrum of the porn, but not underaged.." Then I asked, then WHY did you google search.. "little girl P..sy Videos?
He said it was just another "way" to get there-he thought he would find variety. B.L..Sh..t
I saw what he "found".and had viewed for weeks while I "spied" (and forgive me for posting such VULGAR, graphic wording here):
. teeniesland..myyoungest..tivyeve,youngleaf..teenburg, littletighties; amateur teen sx,hidden cameras..
. HARD core images of girls(and boys) that LOOK to be between 10 and 17
The US statute is very clear, that it doesn’t matter what the actual age of the person is..If they are portrayed as being "Youngest" , it can be considered CP.
Maybe I'm wrong here..My mind is so traumatized by this; I need a professional to tell me what was happening to his brain when he viewed such things. Did the porn addiction skew his thinking? Or did he ALWAYS have a compulsion for young girls? (first wife was 13, at most, when they had sx,he was 18) . He is in his 50 s, There is nothing normal about this. He said he could "understand" my anger and suspicion if he "did" something to my daughter, but he didn’t. "
So, what I did , when he continued to DEFEND himself, I went( no..stormed)
out of the BR and came back with 2 things; a picture of my 15 year old daughter; and images I had printed from the webwatcher site, just 50 or so of the thousands of thousands of images he looked at, of young girls.
I said" Here, this is a picture of >>>(daughter ) , a fifteen year old girl" , then I shoved the porn images into his face and said "
" how old does SHE look, or HER, or HER!!!? "
I broke down..I was so angry.. and went to the living room.
He did not react to the pix at all..he was silent for awhile then came to talk to me. He now feared I would leave him, or worse, that I may Report him to the police. He begged me not to leave. Begged me not to do something "stupid" like go to the police, and said perhaps he would take the lie detector. You know what is even more sad and “telling” ?
When we finally went to bed, at 4:30 am, I asked him to give me the printouts I had thrown at him....and he had hidden them under the bed! Like, I would let him keep them?
He just called now, and asked the CSAT therapist to see us sooner. We will go tomorrow night .
I told him, not to ask for sx , while we have still not dealt with this.. He said," I thought we could try and have some kind of "normal" life while we are working towards this recovery."
He doesn’t get it at all.
Well, I feel relieved!!
This sharing here is therapeutic. I will stand my ground, and not feel guilty.
I feel more able to ACCEPT that we may have to split up, and I can heal myself (as some of the ladies said in comments :)
I feel that I don’t have to accept what the therapist says as law..and I will care for myself and my children. That is what God wants from me..That’s what I want for myself.
He said he couldn’t stop thinking about the session and how poorly things went when we got home.
He knew something was wrong, and that I needed to talk about it..that is hopeful, BUT he was also feeling sorry for himself about my rejecting him for sx, and feeling justified in his disappointment.
Well, at that point, the dam was ready to break.
I told him what I had been feeling. How the porn, at first, just made me feel ugly, fat, not good enough, and that was "insulting"
.Then realizing I was lied to, over and over, That made me feel "injured and angry:", That when I asked him for the polygraph, and he refused over and over, I felt "alone", deceived, confused".. BUT, when I really allowed myself to SEE these images of the teens.. to really SEE them, I saw MYSELF, my inner child..
I saw victims; I saw my daughter; I saw INNOCENCE being destroyed by evil, selfish perpetrators. And I told him, that is how I feel about him.. He is now in the category of my brother, and other men that used and abused me for their sexual pleasure.
He was remorseful. He was mad at the therapist for allowing the session to go so deeply into what "turns us on", and I wasn't able to share..
He cried, and did what he does..trying to "fix" things, HIS way. I told him I may have to find a place for myself and my children, because he will not leave or have the separation I wanted.
I tried to talk about my feelings now. I told him that, when I talk about the teen porn, he shuts down,..so, surprisingly, he did not shut down last night.
We talked about the teen porn.
He told me, " I NEVER" saw them as underaged''. I'm NOT that kind of person...They say they are over 18, so that is the way I viewed them.. on the younger spectrum of the porn, but not underaged.." Then I asked, then WHY did you google search.. "little girl P..sy Videos?
He said it was just another "way" to get there-he thought he would find variety. B.L..Sh..t
I saw what he "found".and had viewed for weeks while I "spied" (and forgive me for posting such VULGAR, graphic wording here):
. teeniesland..myyoungest..tivyeve,youngleaf..teenburg, littletighties; amateur teen sx,hidden cameras..
. HARD core images of girls(and boys) that LOOK to be between 10 and 17
The US statute is very clear, that it doesn’t matter what the actual age of the person is..If they are portrayed as being "Youngest" , it can be considered CP.
Maybe I'm wrong here..My mind is so traumatized by this; I need a professional to tell me what was happening to his brain when he viewed such things. Did the porn addiction skew his thinking? Or did he ALWAYS have a compulsion for young girls? (first wife was 13, at most, when they had sx,he was 18) . He is in his 50 s, There is nothing normal about this. He said he could "understand" my anger and suspicion if he "did" something to my daughter, but he didn’t. "
So, what I did , when he continued to DEFEND himself, I went( no..stormed)
out of the BR and came back with 2 things; a picture of my 15 year old daughter; and images I had printed from the webwatcher site, just 50 or so of the thousands of thousands of images he looked at, of young girls.
I said" Here, this is a picture of >>>(daughter ) , a fifteen year old girl" , then I shoved the porn images into his face and said "
" how old does SHE look, or HER, or HER!!!? "
I broke down..I was so angry.. and went to the living room.
He did not react to the pix at all..he was silent for awhile then came to talk to me. He now feared I would leave him, or worse, that I may Report him to the police. He begged me not to leave. Begged me not to do something "stupid" like go to the police, and said perhaps he would take the lie detector. You know what is even more sad and “telling” ?
When we finally went to bed, at 4:30 am, I asked him to give me the printouts I had thrown at him....and he had hidden them under the bed! Like, I would let him keep them?
He just called now, and asked the CSAT therapist to see us sooner. We will go tomorrow night .
I told him, not to ask for sx , while we have still not dealt with this.. He said," I thought we could try and have some kind of "normal" life while we are working towards this recovery."
He doesn’t get it at all.
Well, I feel relieved!!
This sharing here is therapeutic. I will stand my ground, and not feel guilty.
I feel more able to ACCEPT that we may have to split up, and I can heal myself (as some of the ladies said in comments :)
I feel that I don’t have to accept what the therapist says as law..and I will care for myself and my children. That is what God wants from me..That’s what I want for myself.
It doesn't sound like your H has any sobriety at all. What you are truly feeling at the core of your inner child is helplessness over what you cannot control.
Accepting that you are helpless is the hardest thing we have to do beyond trying to cope with the trauma.
As for the therapist, don't be afraid to set boundaries with this person. What needs to be address immediately is how he will treat your husband for his addiction,not how to spice up your sx life.
If the therapist is unwilling to move in that direction (because recovery is more important than your marriage right now), then keep searching for another therapist. A bad therapist can do more harm than good.
Hugs!!!!
I think you are spot on about your husband and where he is, and I'm sorry. But you are strong and you can and will heal, I can tell that you have the strength and determination, intelligence and drive to do it. This is an awful thing, but I know you'll make it. DO stand your ground, with both your husband and the therapist. DO NOT feel guilty. You may have to split up and you CAN heal yourself. Good luck to you. I'm sending you so many virtual hugs.
PS: I don't know if this will help at all, and if it doesn't I apologize. But one thing that has helped me through this is that I realized how often I have been casually manipulated by my husband. I'm done with being manipulated by him. Just remembering all the things he's done so far have made me more able (even when I pity him, which is sometimes) to refuse to give in to his manipulation. It's not as though it's helping him, anyway, and he's already done enough of it to me to last forever. Just reminding myself of that has sometimes saved me as I got through the separation and now divorce.
Yes,...take care of yourself and your children!!!! That is the only right thing to do. And, I have to agree heartily...I do not believe...not for one millisecond... that God wants us to endure things from ones who do hurtful, lustful things....not pure...by any standards at all. Nor, would he want us to be in danger, nor our children. In fact, the Bible says that if you inform a person about their error, and they continue, there is no peace...then shake the dust off your feet. And, I believe that He would want us to protect ourselves and our children from such things.
He gives us the senses to know right and wrong, danger and safety, love from lust, wholesome from perversion. The reaction we have at first sight...is very clear...isn't it? I didn't have to ask what that was...or what it meant. I knew both of those things. That is "one" of the many reasons I refused to tolerate my Hs porn....ANY porn. It is nothing but lust...and leads toward more lust...dissatisfaction with healthy sexual expression...infidelity...and more an more perverse things. And that's just the action itself...not to mention the attitudes that support those behaviors. And, that isn't even taking into consideration the lying, deception and selfish disregard for others.
And, I don't involve "myself" with that. kind of living. I've seen it...and I find it nauseating. And I know "exactly" what it means. No one ever had to "tell" me that. So, I "do" take care of myself...of my beliefs...of my morals...of my right to live a wholesome life...my body...my emotional well-being...and my happiness. And, most definitely the interests of my daughter. I will allow that anyone else can do anything they like...as long as "they" are willing to pay the costs and reap their own sowing. The law allows the same. It does not "prevent" anyone from breaking the law, it just provides the penalty for doing so. And, anyone can break the law, who is willing to pay the penalty.
I'm not interested those unwholesome and perverse things...and I'm not willing to tolerate it in my life. And, I would certainly "not" put my daughter in any compromising situation for anyone at all. I broke all contact with a nephew who attempted to slyly fondle her. And, I let him know that it is "sick" and he needs major help. I also reported his behavior. That is the end of my contact with him. He never went for help. And he lied like a dog. I know exactly what that means...so..I prefer he stay away from my life. He's an accident looking for a place to happen...and I'm going to make sure...it isn't here!
I will give this therapist one chance to "redeem" himself, but,if he cant ,or doesnt want to see that our continued sx life is NOT the priority right now, then I will go elsewhere, and my H can decide for himself.
Reading SheenRe's response and her experinec with the porn reminded me that last night the therapist actually suggested that we WATCH the porn together, because it is something that brings my H pleasure!!!
{In his defense, he was trying to get my H and me to talk about what WE want(sexually) , as opposed to my H doing the controlling and ALL the thinking in the bedroom.}
Thats a rather inexperienced,minimalistic solution to such a deep,and damaging addiction...
I told him I felt viewing porn led to less intimacy..then, I "felt" like the therapist was viewing me as a prude, so I added that I liked other "exciting" things...now THAT was skewed thinking on MY part!
The things I will do to please a man(in this case MEN) to be accepted !
I dont mean to sound overdramatic about the entire session ,but, I felt violated not only by my H, but also by the therapist.
.I know that is imagined, because neither had that intension, but, never the less, thats how it felt.
Any GOOD therapist should have seen that was possible. I told him the prior week about my past ,so, its not like he didnt know this could have triggered me.
Thank you all for your support and helpful advice...I dont know how this will turn out, but, I am seeing things more clearly today, and for that, I am so grateful!
It helps when you know there are people who " have your back" , because they do care, AND know how this all feels.
hugs & happiness....
We can see you getting stronger every day. Wonderful!
You shared, "the therapist actually suggested that we WATCH the porn together, because it is something that brings my H pleasure!!!" Ah! Uh-oh! And that is the goal of the therapy...to supply your H with "his" pleasure? End of problem? Does seem like a very short route to therapy success? Wow...now that's affective. Or, perhaps he was opening the door of conversation to see how "you" feel about porn? Hmmmm.......Dunno. But, if a therapist said that to me, I'm sure he'd shortly find out what I feel, and why I feel that way.
Well, at least you know the therapist's opinion on porn now. And, it would seem that he doesn't believe porn is a problem in marriage. The statement he made makes that clear. It's good to know what his personal opinion is. You'll know better how to communicate with him. There are as many personal views as there are therapists? So, that particular therapist has his particular view. My Hs therapist had a very different view . In fact, he told my H that "anything" that creates hurt and disconnection between married partners is wrong...period....porn,...or anything else. So, if your H is pleasured by watching other people perform sexual acts...then you should join him no matter how you feel about it? Hmmmm.
As far as the porn thing..even just "regular" porn....that is something personal that you will need to think out. I had to ask myself some questions about what that stuff means to me. Or what it means at all. I think each person has to come to absolute knowledge of their own beliefs, morals, values, thoughts and feelings about that. Once you have, once you know what is best for you in regard to that...it doesn't matter a whit what anyone else thinks. It is your feelings, your mind, and your body...and no one else can make the decisions about any of those things but you.
The issue about what porn is....what it's purpose is...what it means...what feelings it invokes... was the one of main issues in my problems with my H. I've heard that it is healthy. I've heard from some that it is. Maybe for some it is? They would know if it is...and why it is good...for them. Though I've never read, or heard, anyone explain or support their statements. About "why" it is good. What purpose it serves an individual, or a couple. I would love to hear that and discuss it with them. I think I'd have a lot of questions and would like to hear the answers from one who is an avid supporter...particularly if that person was a psych.
But, I fail to see it in what way. That is what created the problems between my H and I. That is what "began" the problems with my Xh too...but it didn't stop there. So, "I" had some serious thinking to do about the placement of porn in my life. I certainly didn't want it there..and my opinion or feelings didn't seem to matter. So, I had to really question myself about what it means to me...and what the statements of others mean to me. And, whether or not I was missing something. Or, if they were?
So, what do you feel like porn means? That's what matters.