Song: Since he caused the mistrust to begin with, why not ask him what he's going to do to convince you that HE can be honest. You can't trust a person who isn't trustworthy can you? You didn't cause yourself to mistrust him, he did. So, maybe he needs to be coming up with answers?

Sheenre: I agree, but as I realized over the last 2 months how he's lied to me over the years and deceived me. That's why he knows I can't believe anything he says anymore. He says he's trying, yet I needed him to try way before this when he knew I wasn't already happy...there was no communication between us and it ate away at me over the years.

he knows we're in a bad place right now. he knows I'm thinking of separating. My main issue is how long until he relapses again, and what if I had started to trust him. He knows without a doubt if I catch anything suspicious...whether it was tv, phone internet, computer internet...without him telling me about it first, then he's being served with divorce papers. But, I cut him off from those regular means. I now find myself wondering how else how he get his "fix" when the urge hits and he gives in....

He never truly stopped. I made him talk to me about it last time. How many times a month he'd look, how many times of those he'd "take care of business" while I was at work. He said it wasn't constant and he'd stop for awhile, but he never told me he had fallen in this trap so deep, for so long.

He knew in the beginning of our relationship that the 2 things I hate the most are liars and porn.

He knows I am torn and he is not safe for a long time. I explained it to him that I am in pergatory, torn between the two sides...do I stay or leave? Trust....a simple word, yet so powerful

so, I told him last night that now probably for the rest of our duration together he won't have any cash on him, only his credit card, and if he does pay for something with cash, I want the receipts. He nodded in agreement, so that was the first step. I told him also how I was going to discontinue premium channels, but it wasn't fair for the kids as there's lots of favorite movies on there. I'm still contemplating as I know there's sex scenes in so many movies. I hate this

I'm so sorry. I know just how you feel. But, you have to do what is best for yourself. If doing those things brings you some measure of relief at this time, then it does. Maybe you won't always feel that it's necessary. You don't feel safe with him...he created that feeling. I think that he does get that at this point.

When someone lies consistently about something, particularly something so hurtful, there are repercussions. He is experiencing the mistrust and disconnection that brings. He must accept the affects his behavior brings.

I'm sorry that you have to feel that way, but we do have to learn to protect ourselves somehow. I kind of think of it like getting hit by a rock brealing through the same window repetitively, after a while, you board up the window? Or stay away from it? Or, at the least watch for the rock? What ever it takes to avoid the rock?

It is good that he doesn't protest about boundaries you put in place to protect your feelings. Some would never tolerate it. I think that just maybe your H realizes that he really put a fly in the ointment now. And that he has created some real serious problems. That is good. He should realize that. That seems like coming out of the denial that doing these things does have an affect on the other parts of my life? He isn't an island?

I felt that way too, and rarely, but occasionally still do. My H puts up his own boundaries these days, to protect me and himself? He was complaining to my brother recently that he can't even rent a movie without some nude scene or something in it, that has nothing to do with the plot of the movie at all. And that is distressing to him. He doesn't like it. So, we frequently watch National Geographic, or Federal Parks, or something like that. I noticed he leaned that way these days, for a long time. Then Saturday I heard why. that felt pretty good. Far from the initial war over two years ago. Then, he was busy defending his "male" right to his "more visual" response to women disrobed...or whatever. So progress? Yes...that is possible.

This is so hard on you as it is on all of us and for that I am sorry and my heart goes out to you. I do however have 1 question:
Why do you feel that it is your job to do these things? Ex: disconnect the cable, no cash ect. shouldn't he be doing these things for himself and telling you? Do you think that would help you build a bit of trust?
Ok, sorry that was more than one question.
I did all the same stuff at the start of all this and found myself very unhappy, wore out and still having to deal with setting my own boundiers. I was not only making sure that I didn't cross the boundiers for me but making sure he didn't cross his; which made it hard for me to stay on track with my own.
For me if I don't let him prove to me he is working his program how can he ever regain my trust. If I set his boundiers he simply because the child and me the parent and we all know what happens when the parents are away, the kids will play. I think it is great that you are trying to help him with his recovery but for me the help was letting him find his own way and being up to the fact that he is trying along with talking about everything under the sun. I had to learn who my husband was.

help4us: well, I did learn to trust him again, and didn't snoop, let us keep the "luxuries" that we are used to. But, as I put everything together, I realized I should've never trusted him again because he never truly stopped. he always hid it, lied about it, took advantage of my trusting nature. That's why I feel like in order for me to stay, I have to set up these strict boundaries, to limit his freedom so to speak. I'm afraid if I give him one inch of leash, he will go right back and fall short. This time it is different as he's seeing a good sex therapist, working on workbooks, and reading. He's understanding more now. I just feel like it's too late. As for him restricting his access to the means, he never restricted it before so I knew he wouldn't do it now. That's why I'm taking the initiative to prevent it. He thinks him laying low, trying to please me will build up the trust.

Sheenre:that's awesome about your H. I do remember you writing that in an earlier post, which I forgot to comment on. So, I haven't read up on your story much, but it's been two years since the "war"? One war, or mini ones like I've been having leading up to the "big one"?

I don't want to offend you, but I feel like this needs to be pointed out: It seems like what you're doing here with trying to prevent him from relapsing isn't really what healthy boundaries are about. Granted I understand EXACTLY where you are coming from, but the only boundaries that anyone can really set are things that pertain to their own behavior-like if you find out he's been lying to you, then you make the move to separate. By trying to keep him from having access to pornographic material, you are trying to control HIS behavior and only he can do that. These guys can and will find new and sneakier ways of getting their "fixes" until they are truly ready to stop, and all that we accomplish by trying to control their circumstances/keep them from temptation is exhausting ourselves. I know how scary the thought of him relapsing is. But you'll be OK! He only has as much power to hurt you as you give him. I know I'm probably only repeating what other people have said here, but this problem is HIS, not yours. It has nothing to do with you, and you are in no way at fault or not good enough, etc etc. Even if he does relapse, you will be fine.

unhappily: H was fine with me putting filters on the internet. He was actually happy that there would be something there to assist with his self control. As for these strict boundaries, they were NEVER in place before. After the 1st and 2nd time of me accidently stumbling upon his internet activites, I didn't do anything to prevent it from happening again. He knew where I kept the dvds that I had gotten us to use on special occasions. I told him last night how I started to trust him again, after the 2nd time and I quit hiding the dvds. he knew where they were. I knew if they were moved. And, they were moved eventually and he never came to me to tell me he had relapsed even further. That was in a way a test, and he failed. He used to have internet on his phone, as we both had a plan. When I cancelled it, and I told him, after awhile he started to continue to look at porn on his phone for a couple of months. I asked him about the $100 charges, and what he was doing. He just said he was looking for new ringtones. Now, that privelege is taken away. Same goes for the tv on demand. I"ve known about these little things throughout the years, but always gave him the benefit of the doubt, hoping he'd come to me and admit it, to definitely not lie about it when confronted.

You see, I gave him freedom. I didn't try to prevent him from doing this. I sat in idle until I would find the hard undenyable proof on the computer. Even then he would lie. So, he's had many of an opportunity to build up my trust.

If/when he relapses again and doesn't tell me about it before I find it, it is over. He knows it. Until then, do I let up the guards and let him test the waters so to speak? This is the only way he's going to learn. I just thought if I could help keep these things away, then his chance of a relapse would be small. But, then my mind started to wander...what about if he stopped at the adult bookstore....how would I know? He could even just put the spare change from in the car to use there if desperately enough. If he started to do something like this, didn't tell me, then what?

so, I guess right now is that do I continue to let all of these means available to him, wait for a trigger, and have me snoop? I hate snooping. It wastes so much time and energy. I just thought if I set up boundaries, then that would erase the need to snoop.

Unhappy,
Nicely put:)
It took me almost a year to figure what you just said out and I am sure that someone on here told me this very stuff. I can't believe that all this SA made me completely brain dead and I never heard or got it when they were yelling at me.
But when we get it girls we get and it is such a since of freedom and control of oneself and after all we all know that we can't control others no matter what we do.
My hubby goes into sugar shock when I don't play into his game he gets the double whammy! Sex-addiction and the Co-addict behavior, I feel for him and hate that he has to walk most of his recovery alone. for me I can love someone and not trust them but I also can love someone and know that they aren't good for me and leave. At 48 I will give him the chance to see if he can work it out but I have to tell you that if I was 35 it would be elvis has left the building. At no age will I ever stay in a marriage for anything other than: love, trust and happiness.

so, then what do I do? I put filters on the computer...I put parental controls on the tv, but H can still watch TV14 and R rated movies. Is that all I should do? Is it too much, too little?

this is my 3rd time around of hard evidence on the computer after him swearing to me it would never happen again. Now, and only after this time did he start therapy. He said it's for me, he's doing it for me, and he's going to fight for me.

help4us: you did say something that was an eye opener...can love someone and not trust them (yes, that's where I am now), but I can also love someone and know that they aren't good for me and leave.....how do you know you reach that point of no return? I did it before in leaving an ex (lived together), but this time, I truly love my H or at least at one point it was true. We have 3 little kids, I have to work as we work opposite shifts to save on daycare, and we are financially tied.

You also said that at 48 you will give him the chance, but at 35 no way. I feel the opposite. I'm 31 and already have a hectic schedule. When I'm 46 my oldest will be leaving the nest. It's then after the kids are older that I would leave in a heartbeat if I dealt with my current war when I'm 46.

as for healthy behaviors, that's something I thought I saw in one of patrick carnes books. Will have to read up on that as Im unsure

Song: Well, really two wars. One nearly twenty years ago. I found porn, filed for divorce, then changed my mind because of several factors...one of which was stupidity....the other major one..my daughter. Then, life went fairly well. I used to tell him often that I had the perfect H. Brag on him...support him...bolster his ego....be his wife...the one who loved him. And treat him with respect and support. There were a few problems, but not with porn, and not enough to really jar me awake.

In retrospect, I should have kicked his arrogant butt a long time ago. He took my control of myself, and religious belief of "doing unto others" as a weakness he could exploit. So, he did. The nicer I was the more of a dick he was. My mistake. I DID do that wrong. It won't happen again. He really changed up his world. And I've changed up mine too. I've learned a lot of things, a lot I'd rather not have, but I did...and it sticks.

Our adult daughter, around 22, found porn on our computer at home a little over two years ago. She confronted him. He lied. And asked her not to speak of it to me at that time, due to other serious stressors in my life. My mother was near dying, in and out of the hospital while I took care of her. Meanwhile, he was whacking away to porn...NICE! He begged and she agreed to put it off, hoped his lies were true, and hoped that he would talk to me himself. He didn't for over three months.

She asked me one day if I still felt that the truth is always best, even if it is a bad truth. I told her, yes I do...so what's happened. She told me. She went searching our computer that same hour and we caught him...she and I....sending a friend request to a German Pornstar gone politician on MySpace....from his work computer. NICE! I thanked God for letting me catch him firsthand. Both for myself and my daughter. End of believeable lies. I DO prefer the truth, no matter how bad, or how hurtful. Truth offers choices. Lies...insanity and derision.

When confronted by us both, he of course tried to lie, was standing lying to our daughter like sleazy little dog. And she struggling with loving her dad...and watching a lowdown liar. I asked her to please go home, I would handle it. I told him, ok, I know the truth now, no lie will ever fly at this point, so you got two choices. You can tell me the truth, and our daughter the truth, and I will give you a chance to work on this at least for a while. You can free our daughter of the struggle with your lies, or I'm done with you right now...over...you can leave...I don't want to ever see your face again.

You're a pervert, a liar, a deceiver, you don't care how I feel, or your daughter feels, or if it ruins our lives, you care about nothing and no one but you, and you're a hide-in-the-dark sniveling little coward to boot. Your daughter has more huevos than you ever had. You should be ashamed to call yourself a man...and certainly not a father. Hurting me...ok...I'm a tough mama...but my kid...I'll make you wish you never lived at all!

I wasn't kind, and I wasn't considerate. I addressed the thing for exactly and precisely what it was. That was the most sane thing I've said since. I meant it...and I mean it. I won't live with that kind of person. It was either get straight, right now, or get out. We have talked much....I wouldn't allow any more silence, nor lies, nor hiding, nor excuses, none...not SA...not mommy nor daddy...nada! Get up off your sniveling little ass right now...or go play elsewhere. You got the wrong woman for this. You just gave me my religious right to a divorce...and short of God's intervention...you certainly will have it. If you've never prayed, and I suspect you haven't...you better give it a go if you want to be around here, because HE is the only one who can help you now.

It didn't end there....the WAR was on. Talks of the nonsense justifications and bull lines began. I wouldn't back up, no matter how it hurt, I kept banging that rock...and I won't, I'll keep right on demanding from now on. Want to stay here? Better keep it straight...because one sway, and I'm done with you. You can go and be the gutter-snipe you act like...and I for one...will be ever so happpy to set you on that road.

I understand where you are and have the same fears. We put parental controls on the internet at home but when he bought a new phone somehow he just ended up with the internet on his phone even though he says he doesn't pay for it, and has his avenue. It seems like they will always find a way and as much as we want to trust them we feel like it is our job to keep them from doing it so we don't end up hurt. I hate that feeling more than anything. I gave birth to one child but so many days I feel like I have two.

I found this very interesting and helpful...hope you do.



Dr. Robert Huzienga says

to transform your life and your relationships. Yes, you can do it. Yes, you will do it. You want to awaken a new you!

One of you sent me this short article which paints a picture of who you and all of us can become. Read it. Print it out. Carry it with you. Reflect. Have this be your guiding light, your vision for you in 2010. As you do, you will find that you will become exceedingly attractive. Cool!

The Awakening

A time comes in your life when you finally get it... When in the midst of all your fears and insanity you stop dead in your tracks and somewhere the voice inside your head cries out - ENOUGH!! Enough fighting and crying or struggling to hold on. And, like a child quieting down after a blind tantrum, your sobs begin to subside, you shudder once or twice, you blink back your tears and through a mantle of wet lashes you begin to look at the world through new eyes.

This is your awakening.

You realize that it's time to stop hoping and waiting for something to change or for happiness, safety and security to come galloping over the next horizon. You come to terms with the fact that he is not Prince Charming and you are not Cinderella and that in the real world there aren't always fairy tale endings (or beginnings for that matter) and that any guarantee of "happily ever after" must begin with you and in the process a sense of serenity is born of acceptance.

You awaken to the fact that you are not perfect and that not everyone will always love, appreciate, or approve of who or what you are...and that's OK. (They are entitled to their own views and opinions). And you learn the importance of loving and championing yourself and in the process a sense of new found confidence is born of self-approval.

You stop bitching and blaming other people for the things they did to you (or didn't do for you) and you learn that the only thing you can really count on is the unexpected. You learn that people don't always say what they mean or mean what they say and that not everyone will always be there for you and that it's not always about you. So you learn to stand on your own and to take care of yourself and in the process a sense of safety & security is born of self-reliance.

You stop judging and pointing fingers and you begin to accept people as they are and to overlook their shortcomings and human frailties and in the process a sense of peace & contentment is born of forgiveness.

You realize that much of the way you view yourself, and the world around you, is as a result of all the messages and opinions that have been ingrained into your psyche. And you begin to sift through all the crap you've been fed about how you should behave, how you should look and how much you should weigh, what you should wear and where you should shop and what you should drive, how and where you should live and what you should do for a living, who you should marry and what you should expect of a marriage, the importance of having and raising children of what you owe your parents. You learn to open up to new worlds and different points of view. And you begin reassessing and redefining who you are and what you really stand for. You learn the difference between wanting and needing and you begin to discard the doctrines and values you've outgrown, or should never have bought into to begin with and in the process you learn to go with your instincts.

You learn that it is truly in giving that we receive. And that there is power and glory in creating and contributing and you stop maneuvering through life merely as a "consumer" looking for your next fix.

You learn that principles such as honesty and integrity are not the outdated ideals of a by gone era but the mortar that holds together the foundation upon which you must build a life. You learn that you don't know everything: it's not your job to save the world and that you can't teach a pig to sing. You learn to distinguish between guilt and responsibility and the importance of setting boundaries and learning to say NO. You learn that the only cross to bear is the one you choose to carry and that martyrs get burned at the stake.

Then you learn about love. Romantic love and familial love. How to love, how much to give in love, when to stop giving and when to walk away. You learn not to project your needs or your feelings onto a relationship. You learn that you will not be more beautiful, more intelligent, more lovable or important because of the man on your arm or the child that bears your name. You learn to look at relationships as they really are and not as you would have them be. You stop trying to control people, situations and outcomes.

You learn that just as people grow and change so it is with love... and you learn that you don't have the right to demand love on your terms...just to make you happy.

And, you learn that alone does not mean lonely...And you look in the mirror and come to terms with the fact that you will never be a size 5 or a perfect 10 and you stop trying to compete with the image inside your head and agonizing over how you "stack up". You also stop working so hard at putting your feelings aside, smoothing things over and ignoring your needs. You learn that feelings of entitlement are perfectly OK...and that it is your right to want things and to ask for the things that you want... and that sometimes it is necessary to make demands.

You come to the realization that you deserve to be treated with love, kindness, sensitivity and respect and you won't settle for less. And, you allow only the hands of a lover who cherishes you to glorify you with his touch...and in the process you internalize the meaning of self-respect. And you learn that your body really is your temple. And you begin to care for it and treat it with respect. You begin eating a balanced diet, drinking more water and taking more time to exercise. You learn that fatigue diminishes the spirit and can create doubt and fear. So you take more time to rest.

And, just as food fuels the body, laughter fuels our soul. So you take more time to laugh and to play.

You learn, that for the most part, in life you get what you believe you deserve...and that much of life truly is a self-fulfilling prophecy. You learn that anything worth achieving is worth working for and that wishing for something to happen is different from working toward making it happen.

More importantly, you learn that in order to achieve success you need direction, discipline and perseverance. You also learn that no one can do it all alone and that it's OK to risk asking for help. You learn that the only thing you must truly fear is the great robber baron of all time. FEAR itself. You learn to step right into and through your fears because you know that whatever happens you can handle it and to give in to fear is to give away the right to live life on your terms.

And you learn to fight for your life and not to squander it living under a cloud of impending doom. You learn that life isn't always fair, you don't always get what you think you deserve and that sometimes bad things happen to unsuspecting, good people. On these occasions you learn not to personalize things. You learn that God isn't punishing you or failing to answer your prayers. It's just life happening. And you learn to deal with evil in its most primal state - the ego. You learn that negative feelings such as anger, envy and resentment must be understood and redirected or they will suffocate the life out of you and poison the universe that surrounds you.

You learn to admit when you are wrong and to build bridges instead of walls. You learn to be thankful and to take comfort in many of the simple things we take for granted, things that millions of people upon the earth can only dream about; a full refrigerator, clean running water, a soft warm bed, a long hot shower. Slowly, you begin to take responsibility for yourself by yourself and you make yourself a promise to never betray yourself and to never ever settle for less than your heart's desire. And you hang a wind chime outside your window so you can listen to the wind. And you make it a point to keep smiling, to keep trusting and to stay open to every wonderful possibility.

Finally, with courage in your heart and with God by your side you take a stand, you take a deep breath and you begin to design the life you want to live as best as you can.
by: Virginia Swift.

sheenre: wow, for both posts. Thank you for sharing your "war" background. It actually resembled our situation a bit...I always bragged about him, what a great guy, sensitive, we never fought, treated me good, etc. We do have our lil problems as you said, but I picked my battles. Until recently when it got to the point where I felt alone in this relationship with all of the household responsibility left upon my shoulders for too long. I had no one to talk to, meaning him. He just didn't listen until I texted him in the winter "I am just not happy". with this discovery, and my eye opener after I thought about "us" and put all the pieces together, realizing he never stopped, he never thought he had a problem so therefore never took the initiative to prevent anything, my feeling alone and being made to feel like he ever thought of me...after all of this, I took a good look at our lives together. His therapy has helped and he said last night after his weekly session how the therapist put into "male" words my feelings and what's been bothering me. H really started to understand. I have to count this as the beginning of our new/next chapter. I told him I'm NOT going to put H on a leash. I will however keep the internet filters on as he liked that idea too. If he ever tried to give into the urges, the net nanny would pop up and bring him back to his senses. He knows to now come to me to tell me if he feels like he's going to slip, or if he has. He knows that periodically for the rest of our lives I will be snooping to see if he's hiding anything. He knows if he doesn't tell me or admit something to me, no matter how little he may think it is, I will file for divorce. No questions. So, after all maybe this isn't so bad

and, thank you for that article. A real eye opener and encouragement. I did tell H a month ago that I am starting to put myself first, starting to care about me and my needs for once. No longer put him in front of me. He just looked at me with such bewilderment. It's true. I started back to the gym, going out with friends, leaving him behind. I've been here cooped up in this home and all the aspects it takes to run one for way too long. He had his "fun time". Now, it's time for him to know what it's like to be in my shoes in some ways.

Amanda: I think it was on here yesterday, after posting about what am I supposed to do then, that I spent almost my entire day off reading the books. I came then to realize that no matter what, I can't keep him from acting out. I won't waste my time and my self in doing so. It is up to him if he wants to stay with me, in this relationship, in this family. i will do though what it takes to help keep the urges/triggers at bay....internet filters and parental controls, which he is more than ok with. As for the phone, well, since I do the finances I would know if he uses the internet as it's a pay per use. He also knows that he can't call up the cable company and ask for the parental code to be changed as the accounts in my name and I instructed them that only I can make changes to the account.

i will periodically snoop...I will periodically ask him if he's having any urges and if he acted on them. that is as far as I will go. As for snooping I mean once he's on the computer again (he's too afraid, not ready to go on here by himself) I will use the programs to check in on his activity.

the question is not then what ...it is now what? the checking is a compulsion to keep yourself safe by making sure things don't happen...they have already happened....you are making your self crazy and it sounds like your life is unmanagebale...and will continue to be until you really accept he is an SA...you either accept he is and stay and stop making yourself crazy...focus on you and your recovery...or you leave or he does....

you cannot control his behavior nor should you...you are only responsible for your behavior...right now you are making yourself crazy...not him...yes i know it is because of what he does...becasue he is an addict....there is nothing you can do to change it or control it...only he can...there is noway to keep any man from finding something to lust for wherever he is whenever he wants.....that is not to say there are not things that can be removed or avoided but only you and he can decide what you are willing to give up to do that...

i find that even tho i am not with my h i am giving up a lot that bothers me...not becasue it bothers me but becasue it is inaapropriate and i don't need it...and i am better off without it...we don't need all the things we think we need to be happy....the queston is how far will you go...will you both do whatever it takes to get recovery...both of you..each for yourselves....doesn't matter whether the marriage survives or not...you both need it...or you will still be unhappy....i know bieng without my h i still need to work on recovery for me....i wish you luck...reflections of hope is a good read for helping with the snooping and controlling....and the 12 step support groups and their literature is helpful as well...none of us can live with SA without the proper support and information to keep us healthy and able to enjoy life even in the midst of this.....and if we are not enjoying life, why be here.....if you cannot find joy with SA maybe the answer is to leave....i think you need to stop worrying about what he is doing or not doing and start worryign about what you are doing or not doing for you/.....give yourself a break for a bit...read, reflect, get therapy, so you can get some clarity and make the best decision for you...no matter what he decides...God bless