Gosh I wish I had some advice to offer. I'm still working through my own feelings, confusion, pain and don't feel I'm anywhere near giving any solid advice. The thing that struck me though when reading your post was how people in your life are telling you that you should leave or that they would have left him by now. I have found those types of comments, from well meaning people, to be very destructive to my relationship with them. And I find myself getting aggravated, angry, annoyed with them. Don't get me wrong, I would be saying the same thing if I weren't living this life, this life affected by this addiction. Now these comments didn't always annoy me. I used to find an unhealthy empowerment from them. Usually because I felt some sort of vindication because they "were taking my side". But recently I have discovered that these comments really don't help me. They only fuel my anger and confusion. They make me feel stupid for staying. They make me feel like something is wrong with me for staying. They make me wonder what people think about me for staying. They make me feel bad about myself for staying. I have started to pull away from some of these friends because of this.

On the flip side, I just met a dear friend for coffee the other day who told me she really admired my staying and fighting for my marriage. That although she believed that I was well within my rights to leave, even from a biblical standpoint, that even though my H has broken the covenant of our marriage, she gave me credit for fighting for my marriage. I so appreciated her comments, support & encouragement.

This is not to say that I believe I should just keep taking this stuff from my H. At some point something is going to have to change or I will leave. But I believe when the time is right for me to leave, God will have done a work in me that I will have the courage, strength & willingness to do so.

All that to say, it's easy for someone to have an opinion about what another person should do when it doesn't effect them. What is hard is to sit, listen much, talk little, and just offer a word of encouragement.

Hugs!

Hi Mary,

Good to hear from you. Being stuck at times, does seem to be part of this journey! It's going to take time for you to sort out how you feel and what you want to do. As long as you stay focused on looking after yourself and your daughter, you will work out what you need to do and the "right" paths will open up for you. You will work out what to do and you will do it. Bless you.

I'm sorry you feel like you are stuck, but it sounds like you have been actually doing a lot of work and have a awareness about yourself. What you need to keep doing is focus on yourself. Since you admit that you have your own issues with addiction/co-dependency have you considered 12 steps for yourself? If it is possible for you to do this, this will help you stay focused on you. When we change, the addicts change, when we shift, the addict shifts. It doesn't necessarily mean that things will get better in the marriage, but focusing on yourself will help you process through the trauma and get to the place where you can safely make a decision regarding your marriage.
Also, it feels like you are obsessing over the screen shots. This is pulling on your energy which you need for recovery.
You may also be projecting where he is concerned. It sounds like he may be going through withdrawal, but if he isn't completely sober yet, then this stage will take time. Time is all we have so use it to your advantage and take one moment at a time.
Journaling really helps a lot too!

Thank you all so much! Weary: I do get what you mean about people making judgements,without really knowing the whole picture, and yes, it DOES make me more angry. I did not really know about sex addiciton until it effected my own marriage and it is an eye opener ,too say the least. I do have to consider the source when people tell me to just get out of the marriage. I have been divorced twice, and it is certainly not something I want, so thank you for the input.!
Conniption: Thanks for the pep talk!! I needed that :)
Wachit: Thanks for the encouragment-I do have a 12 step program.. 10 1/2 years in AA,very active, and I have been going to SANON, although meeting are quite a drive from here. You are right that I have to focus on myself. I guess I realized that as I was writing the topic.. I just need to get back on track myslef, and not worry so much about what he is doing,thinking etc. I guess I probably am doing the projecting...looking at him aagin, becuase, to be honest, ready the "Dont call it Love ,book was emotional, as a survier of abuse--looking at my own childhood and sexual history..I am seeing soo many things I did not see before.. my M.O> has always been to escape (alcoholism 25+ years). This is quite a lot to process, and I have to stop rushing it all.
I do like the idea of journaling..I will try and start that tonight.
thanks again!!

Mary: I like to answer questions with questions...for "you" to think about. Because what "you" think is all that really matters. I know that when I confronted these issues, I had to contact my"real" and personal feelings, and ask myself a lot of questions...for which the answers "really" resided inside me. At first, I didn't know what the questions were...much less my answers for them. And finding the questions...provided the answers in time.

I think you're doing just fine. Don't fault yourself. No one cruises these kinds of issues unless they're in some sort of denial. I think it takes years to come to grips with all the repercussions for an SO after finding these issues in a marriage. And, I'm not so sure that things going back to the way they were is ever possible. I find that "not" likely at all. In fact, I'd say it's impossible. You said, "We arent communicating. Its going back to the way it was before this all came out." But "you" aren't content with what is right now..what appears to be the same....and that's where the "not" likely comes into play in my mind. In that way, your concern, things are not as they once were.

You've identified part of why...."aren't communicating." So, what kind of communication is missing? You said, "He wont talk about his childrhood, or abuse issues, even though i have shared much of my child abuse hx with him." So, you've become vulnerable by sharing, and he hasn't. He doesn't share what it going on with him, and you feel a need to know what's happening. And you also said, "I did not get the polygraph yet." Those both are communication issues. He isn't sharing his thoughts about how he got to where he is today...which leaves you with no information about what his issues really are. And, you may not be sharing that you still feel the need for a polygraph, nor your misgivings about the marriage. So, what can "you" do about the communication?

And, I think it's far harder to come to grips with it when still with our mate. The issues regarding mistrust takes energy away from dealing with the emotional damage already in pIay for us. I know it has taken me several years. And I wouldn't say that I'm "recovered." I'm not so sure what that word really implies. If that means I feel as I once did...then I'm not...and don't "really" expect to ever be. Nor have I seen anyone who is...by the way I'd define that word. I'm not so sure I've ever read what that means exactly. However, I do know that I don't feel traumatized any more. The questions I had for my mate, have been answered. The questions I had internally, have been answered. My days are spent without "much" concern on the issues.

You said, "So I find myself telling him what I have learned and I come off like the codependent whack job that I am.. :)" So, sharing what you've learned, what you feel, what you think, is being a "codependent whack job?" Sounds more to "me" like you are offering an invitation to "relationship" and honesty. I don't think that's either codependent, nor whacky.

So...what are your questions?

Oh...and Wach said, "Also, it feels like you are obsessing over the screen shots. This is pulling on your energy which you need for recovery." That is true too. I believe when I did that...and I did that for a long time...when I pulled those images up in my mind, or on the screen, I did it to keep me from falling into denial, and letting sleeping dogs lay...and forced acceptance of reality. The images represented reality to me at that time as nothing else quite seemed to do. I felt like those images woke me to reallity in my situation...and I didn't want to fall asleep intodenial again. And, I too think it was to distance myself from connections with him. When I looked at them...the distance was automatic and keen. I don't feel the need to do that any longer...not for a long time. I have no doubt that I will never fall into denial again.

wow SheenRe--really good stuff!!! You hit the nail on the head-communication. What I thought was going back to the way things were" was just a lack of communication in the present. I cant ever go back to the way things were as you said.
the lack of communication,his shutting down, or "acting in" is what feels the "same". That is it. I am learning and growing, and making myself vulnerable, and it appears (from where i'm sitting )that he is shutting down..but he may not be at all..
He may just be processing at his own pace. So..communication it is! Of course, he asked about when we will be having sex this week..i will "counter" with, " when will we sit down and talk this week.?".
I need that "intimacy" to whatever capacity we are both able, before becoming sexual.. and the images.. yes, I keep looking at them for the "answer"-as if they will tell me WHO he is. That "hebophile" question. But only he(or a therapist and or polygraph tech) can tell me who he really is. and only after HE KNOWS, and figures out who he really is. I have to practice patience. I do know a few things about "recovery", In AA recovery is coming back from a "hopeless state of mind an body", coming to know a serenity and peace of mind like never before" But recovery from Sex addiction/ Sanon "recovery" well, I'm still processing that concept myself. But i suppose "hopeless state of mind " does describe much of what I've been feeling the last 6 weeks! :) thanks so much.

Mary: You provided the "stuff", I only commented on what "you" have already identified. See, you "are" dong well!!!! I so have to say though that I "don't" feel like you are in a "hopeless state of mind" either. I think you are doing everything you 'can" do to hold onto hope for the marriage. I did too. We all do. If we didn't have hope...we would have already threw in the towel and been moving toward a different life! So, I do think that you're feeling challenged by his lack of communication...uncomfortable...so "do" what "you" can do...and be open and honest yourself. Whatever he chooses to do...is his decision. I can never find fault with being honest and open with your communications about what you think or feel.

My H could well revert back to his old behaviors...any day. That would in no way change the dynamics of what "I" have done...which was to be honest about what I feel...good and bad. So, that when I look back on either success, or failure, I will "know" that "I" did the right thing. And "that" is "really" all that matters to me. I do "hope" he doesn't do that. But, if he does, what he did before had nothing to do with me...and now...it would have even less to do with me. So, I win, my self-respect, and self-esteem, even if I lose the marriage?

Mary: Thank you for sharing this: " "recovery", In AA recovery is coming back from a "hopeless state of mind an body", coming to know a serenity and peace of mind like never before."

If that is what "recovery" means...then I'm not recovered...and doubt I ever will be by that definition. Maybe if I was an addict that would be true. I could see where it might be true in that case. But, since I'm not an addict, I can't quite see how it applies to me. Maybe I fail to see something? An addict has to "quit" doing something destructive. Actually, a whole plethora of damaging behaviors. I wasn't doing anything destructive to quit. So, I was already pretty darn serene and peaceful before this occured. I certainly wasn't unhappy with me..or the way I'd lived my life. Nor am I now.

The situation I found myself in destroyed my peace and serenity because it changed my perception of the marriage and the life I had believed in. Not what I had "done" by "why" I had lived that way...and what I believed about some things in life. So, I did my best to change the situation into the best it might be...and hope that I can arrive at some semblance of the peace I once enjoyed before I knew about it.

I'm ok...not anxiety ridden. I sleep well again. I take care of myself. I don't obsess about the necessary decisions any more. I don't feel there is anything that "I" need to do...or even can do. I have restored interest in the other facets of my life...and let the marriage be whatever it "can" be in the aftermath. I suspect that is mostly up to him. I don't feel traumatized any more. I don't mourn any more. In my case, I have to honestly say that I don't quite know how I could ever feel as serene as I once did. Sounds nice...but can't quite see how that will ever be possible. I can't think of a thing I could do to make it possible. I think that I feel pretty good that I survived it without a stress breakdown...and I've restored my life to some semblance of what it once was. And, I suspect...that will have to do. I don't expect much more at all.

Mary: I can relate to much of what you have said. My h is a double addict too and after the intervention both addictions stopped. I am totally focused on the sex addiction. That one is the biggest threat to me, most of my pain. My h is totally focused on the alcohol. The alcohol was his primary addiction. He didn't feel he would act out without the alcohol. He also went to AA twice a day and SA once a week and therapy. The alcohol doesn't scare me bc I will know. The SA does. He says if he can stay away from the alcohol, he really isn't triggered on the sex addiction. We came back together after a 6 month separation and I could see his brain had calmed. It still scares me that if he has an emotional crisis he doesn't handle he will turn to an addiction and act out sexually. He tells me his first reaction would be to drink. I'm just sharing this bc this is what your h has told you also and I think he might be being honest.

My h also read very little compared to me and he really didn't want me to share with him. This hurt me greatly because I read to know more about him and what he went through and he read one book after a year and a half about what the spouses goes through. Our h's sound very similar although mine was into massage parlors and strip clubs and prostitutes.

Sheenre: actually ,in AA,alanon, and I suppose Sanon, we do not ever "recover"...
- You are exactly right- I had forgotten -we never completely recover-ever-- it is an ongoing process of recovery.. :) thanks for reminding me.. None of us will ever completey "recover" from the devastation that addiction has caused to our lives--whether we did it to ourselves, or someone effected OUR lives..and I agree with you, as i have been on both sides of that .. being effected by my H's sex addiction is far more painful than even alcohol withdraw was,and
alcohol was my "best friend" ,my primary source fo coping with the pain .. You sound like you are doing really really well in your "recovery", given all you have been through-- AND, the OTHER part of a healthy recovery PROCESS is learning how to help others (the 12th step) and you certainly are doing that from all I read here.. : ) thanks for all you do, and have a great day!!

Cyn: My husband also had/has a drinking problem. Like you, I'm not "very" concerned about his drinking. He never misses work because of it. He's never been in trouble because of it...yet. I never interfered with it...much...unless it impacted me or our daughter. When it did cause issues, I did take some actions regarding it. I knew for nearly thirty years that his drinking "is" a coping ...and social...mechanism.

Both of his parents, and also his grandparents, actually all of his immediate family drink excessively. None of them missed work either. Their drinking was restricted to after work or weekends. And, it was a large part of their internal and external socializing. That's "their" way of "having a good time." His drinking is a "learned" behavior, instilled in his home of origin, and fostered by it even today. I don't like to visit his family often, because I "know" that he will drink too much...right along with them.

So, knowing that, I have my "coping" mechanisms in place in those instances. He "rarely" drinks to excess here at home anymore. For various reasons, he found it was negatively impacting his life here. Since there is "very little" impact on me personally, I rarely interfere with that mechanism. I'm not really "sure" if his drinking behavior would even be considered alcoholism. Meaning, I don't believe he is physically dependent. He presents as being habitualized, not dependent. I don't even think his drinking behavior in that regard would meet the criteria for obsessive/compulsive. Unless I were to conclude that anyone who drinks...socializes...has fun...with alchol is an alcoholic. And, I don't think that is true. If so, a large portion of our society is alcholic?

Interesting enough, his sexual behaviors were not linked to his drinking...that I "know" of. I'm sure that are "lots" of things that I don't know, and I never will know. But, I have found no support at all for a conclusion that he "ever" mixed alchohoI with his sexual behavior. In fact, his body is affected by alcohol in a way that suppresses his ability to even gain an erection. So, not very likely at all that he ever mixed the two. I "do" know that his sexual antics "generally" occured when he was "not" drinking. Usually, at his lunch break during the day. He always had a habit of coming home for lunch. So, when I was working, he was free to do as he wished in that time frame. Nobody home.

You shared with Mary that your h read very little compared with you. That is also true of my H. On the other hand, he was never much of a reader of anything...ever. So, that isn't surprising to me either. He read two books, maybe three...enough to get the picture. He attended around six months of therapy. He attended two SA meetings. That was sufficient to me. Would have been nice if he had been reading about the results of his behavior? But, he didn't really want to read about, or talk about, the actual results.

I'm sure that was very traumatizing for "him"...realizing what his behavior had really done...and the anxiety of living with the consequences of that reality. Though, I did share "some" of what I was studying. The recipe for sexual addiction..which he read in Patrick Carnes work. But, more prevalently, I read about the results of that kind of sexual behavior on the SO and the marriage. I don't think I had much interest in atempting to "fix" him. I certainly had interest in his getting help and fixing himself. But, I had a lot of interest in what was happening to me...and what...if anything might help me make good decisions...and get on with my life in the best way for me to do that.

Talking with me..answering my questions...witnessing the trauma, physical results, and emotional results of his behavior was definitely "not" something he wanted to do. I'm sure he never really realized the magnitude of negative life results his behavior would inflict on me...until it was already too late...and done. And, I know that he wished like H he had never inflicted it. But, he couldn't do anything about that...it was already done...past-tense. He, like most, just wanted to acknowledge his wrong, apologize, and everything suddenly be ok because he had. Me too. But, that isn't quite how it worked.

You said, "It still scares me that if he has an emotional crisis he doesn't handle he will turn to an addiction and act out sexually." Though I'm more attune to the idea that my H might become "bored" and seek that avenue, and he's far more likely to turn to alcohol for stress relief, I know what you mean in some ways. Though, I don't "fear" it anymore. Not on any "awareness" level I don't anyway. It has "already" happened, and it didn't destroy me...so more...would just be more...of the same...and I've already handled it. However, I don't particularly like the idea that I have left myself vulnerable to more exposure in regard to a person who has proven he has the ability to justify. I do "know" there is that possibility...and I do acknowledge it. I think that the results of that behavior was enough to deter that particular selection. But if not, I do know this, I handled it once, and I'll handle it again. Just not in the same way.

He might also miss the "real" intimacy I once shared with him. I know that I am not able to feel that way anymore. And, because I don't, and I can't, he might well fall prey to worse things...like intimate infidelity. That, thus far, I haven't yet handled. So, that might be shocking, though his previous behavior wouldn't. So, I am in a vulnerable position. But, at least I'm aware of it now. That's good.

My aim in all of this was not to "fix" him...it was to address the "costs" for me. Those costs were incurred immediately, and irrevocably....no matter what happened after the fact. I suspected that "nothing" could ever take away the damage that was done to the marriage. The relationship between he and I, the relationship I had "toward" him, would never be the same again. I knew, for a fact, that I would never feel as I once had. Impossible. And, I knew that because it had changed my perception of the relationship between he and I, the liklihood that the marriage would survive and be acceptable to either of us was not good either. Not impossible for it to be "something" but impossible that it would ever be a vague equivalent to what was lost. I did hope that maybe some of it could be salvaged, at least some of the intregal parts....rather than trash it all. I tried to find a place within myself that it would be ok...that the benefits would outweigh the losses...that companionship would outweigh my previous feelings.

I had hope...for me...that I could mitigate the costs for me personally. That I could accept what could never be changed...and determine what was best for me in the overall picture. How much loss was I willing and able to incur? What is the best possible outcome for me? I knew some things about myself from having suffered losses before...much like this one. And, I knew, that there was "no" way that the damage done would ever be fully addressed. I could only see if what was left of the marriage was worth having. I know what I have at this point. And I know what I don't have. Only question remaining, is whether it will be enough for me to be reasonably satisfied with the marriage. He doesn't have to do a single thing more to bring on that set of conclusions...he already did it.



And, I don't "think" he can really hurt me to the level he did before. First, I think his behavior would need to shock me to reach that level of pain. And, I don't think he can do that anymore.