staying sober and clean is the first part of rebuilding trust

being in active recovery, therapy, 12 step, meetings

come clean..if there is anything that you haven't told her ..tell her now regardless how hard it is...letting her heal and then disclosing more is like riping of a scab....and delays her healing process

use internet filters(k9) and accountability software like covenant eyes that send her or your sponsor emails of what you are doing online

give her space, listen to her, let her be angry,sad, hurt etc

healing for us spouses takes months and even years and that is if you stay sober....relapses set us right back to step 1...

don't expect trust...that's a hard one as we have been lied to , deceived and betrayed

educate yourself by reading books about spouses and what she hs going through...Barbara Steffens wrote Your Sexually Addicted Spouse is a great book that deals with the trauma...and is a good book for addicts to read too

likely she needs help too, therapy or whatever makes her feel safe

if she has set boundaries up to help her feel safe listen to them

be patient, empathetic and give it time...lots and of time

my husband is almost 10 months sober and trust isn't even in my vocabulary yet....
and we just started marriage therapy....

shoot me a message if you need more info

Cindycin has written some good points from her own point of view.

Although many spouses say they want to know everything,, I disagree with that. Steps 8 and 9 of the 12 Step program also says there are things better left unknown.

It took years for me to get any kind of real trust, and even now it is limited. I can also say that I have PTSD and my trust is permanently gone from my experiences. I now take 'calculated risks', about getting emotionally close to anyone (which is actually part of what has made me susceptible to 'alternatives' to married sex in handling my strong sex drive.

It is true that the spouse may also need therapy and may have issues of his/her own that have played into triggering the spouses compensatory behaviors. For this reason, too, it's good to have some healthy boundaries.

The biggest motto of the 12 Steps, or one of them is.. 'focus on your self'.. we can't let our recoveries be negatively affected by the manipulations of a spouse, and the spouse can't be allowed to scapegoat the addict and say everything is all the addict's fault, as the spouse needs to do some recovery also.

So bottom line... focus on your recovery.. not just with the motive to get the spouse back, but for your own health, whether we have to go out into uncharted waters in our lives. Which reminds me.. we don't go 'back'. We go forward.

I understand that step to something completely different ...step 8 and 9 are more focused on your making amends when it isn't going to cause more harm to someone...that meaning someone say you acted out with, used, and discarded...obviously contacting someone like that isn't beneficial to anymore....also there are things that need to be told for health reasons and really those secrets are what fed your addictive life and keeping those things a secret gives the addiction that power that it needs to relapse....

trained therapist actually promote FULL disclosure, doing this not only gets you to admit the extent of your acting out, keeping those types of secrets will cause more harm then good, admitting all of your wrongs is part of the process, regardless of the outcome in a relationship...also lots of SA's give full disclosure (within therapy) with support for the addict as well as the spouse, followed by a polygraph....

I too as a spouse suffer from PTSD from the trauma and trickle disclosure that happened over a matter of a month 2 years after the acting out had all stopped....
the healing process had been stunted because of the lack of honesty and rebuilding the trust is going to take longer because of it

please don't fall into the trap of co-dependency right off the bat....shifting the blame for your acting out sexually to your spouses..this infact isn't recovery....if you are blaming your spouse for your "triggering"you have yet to truly grasp the concept of recovery...no one for any reason made you make the choices that you chose....

Yes its true that recovery for the addict is different from that of the spouse but if you decide to stay married the two separate recoveries need to be intertwined to save the marriage

there is no blame for a spouse, I don't care if she hasn't had sex with him for years ...then end the damn marriage ...stepping outside or with porn isn't the solution.....we aren't to blame and only when the addict takes FULL responsibility will true recovery occur

in a healthy relationship there are no secrets, and if an addict is true to himself he needs to be true to his wife....yes I need to do work on my own but that recovery is about coping with the trauma ....

don't fall on the band wagon of the two sides of the street...the addict focusing on his own recovery and not dealing with the wreckage he has caused....together marriages can survive this but only if you are willing to admit your wrongs, stay sober, work on your recovery, and support your wife....

Thank you, Candycin, I need to hear this. I am trying to take full responsibility for my actions. I am still a work in progress. My wife has been encouraged by being able to monitor all of my internet usage and having proof that I am clean. I have been tested and found to be in perfect health. So I guess that's good. But almost all my problem has been internet based, and for me, this is my trigger. I must stay free of this. Internet porn would be my "Inner circle", so to speak. As would attempting to contact anyone. My wife, in her words, would consider MB to be in the middle circle, although I am also trying to stay away from that as well, because that will eventually lead to more temptation for internet porn. Thanks, everyone.

First of all congratulations on 18 days sober! Once trust is broken it is hard to regain it. I cannot tell you how long it will take to get it back. Only your wife will know how long it will take. After all she is not the one who broke it. Healing is a process not an event. It takes time to heal. Give her that time. Serve her, love her and be patient with her. Stay away from all forms our your addictive lifestyle. Forgiving is also essential in gaining trust. Forgive yourself for hurting your wife and seek her forgiveness as well. Make amends to her. Be kind and gentle. She's hurting and needs to heal. As you stay away from porn and prove to her that you are changing, she will forgive you. Be patient with the process. Heal and be well.

candycin.. after that very long post, saying that 'trained therapists actually promote full disclosure',,, to be honest that is bs. And your post actually reflects a kind of spousal attitude that is the reason why addicts and spouses usually attend separate groups. The spouse tends to lay too many trips on the addict, blames everything on the addict, and refuses to admit that s/he is not perfect either. The spouse can sink hooiks into very codependent stuff under the guise of 'helping';

The 8th and 9th Steps are about making amends, yes, and the caution is that we don't have to disclose everything as some things are only made worse that way. Now tell me,,, how about you disclosing some of your faults to us.. things you need to work on.. focus on yourself, being honest with yourself,, making your own amends and don't say you have none to make.

xa,

I can name very well respected therapist that promote full disclosures followed by a poly, do some research before you feel the need to attack me...perhaps step 4, and taking a look at your character defects?

when I said my vows to my husband and him to me I am pretty damn sure that one of them wasn't and I am going to cheat,lie, and act out and when I get caught its going to be your fault!!!

I never said I didn't have faults, and I certaintly never said that I was perfect...but I can tell you that my husband has taken FULL responsibility for his actions, and doesn't blame me, his crappy childhood, he takes that himself as he had free will...
nothing a spouse does is cause for infidelity....I feel sad for you that you feel the need to attack someone that you don't agree with...obviously yet another character defect...

are you still married?

I would also like to add that you should be careful about seeking advice from a therapist that would encourage you to keep secrets and lie to your spouse...
its a slippery slope right back to a relapse...

Patick Carnes gave great advice to help rebuild your relationship when recovering from a porn addiction. I agree with prior posts that staying sober will help the most but I think his advice is excellent and can accelerate the healing of the relationship. Here's a summary taken from the book Power Over Pornography:

1. Risk being the first to speak. When you accept the risk of rejection and you reveal your internal struggles, you create trust and open up the ability to discuss joint problems. According to Patrick Carnes, In healthy relationships, intimacy becomes possible when people accept the risk of rejection and reveal their internal struggles.
2. Be a listener first and a talker second. Its important that your focus be on the conversation. Listening fully is one of the great esteem and relationship builders and, therefore, a key to rebuilding real intimacy.
3. Avoid becoming defensive. When defensive thoughts come into your mind, choose to listen instead. Withdrawal is another defense mechanism, so watch for it and stay engaged.
4. Share. Begin sharing your thoughts and feelings more. Keeping them inside can inhibit intimacy. You may want to write down your thoughts and feelings during the day so that you can share them with your spouse later.
5. Be dependable, even for hard things. Trust starts with dependability, so emphasize this goal. Remember, there are few if any tasks or meetings that are a higher priority than your spouse and children.
6. Demonstrate your love. Words are less powerful than actions. Think about little actions that will mean a lot to your spouse. This will mean a great deal in showing your commitment, and it will lead to greater marital intimacy.
7. Be honest. Honesty is a key to intimacy.

Hope this helps

Thanks!

Vari: Congratulations on your efforts and sustained abstinence. I am the wife of a person who made some serious and longterm decisions that negatively affected his relationship with me and our marriage. You ask about how long it might take for a spouse to be able to perceive any trust or positivity in the relationship. My H has a witty little quip in regard to anyone asking how long about anything...he's very witty. He says, "the whole time." And, I think it's a good answer. So, I'll just say, the whole time.

And, I feel compelled to say what I said to my H when he asked such a question of me, and that is, what makes you think I will ever be able to do that? If you believe I can, you're far ahead of me, because I'm not so sure that is even possible.

I can also say from the perspective of a person who was seriously injured by both his behavior and the lies supporting that behavior that any recovery either personal or interrelational is highly dependent upon many factors. Here's what I found positive for me. The most important thing my husband did, the reason in fact that I am still married to him, is that he became honest with me, no matter the personal cost to him. Meaning, he put my feelings before self-interest. That is what he had failed to do that created the marital crisis to begin with. The fact that he had lied to me repetitively over a period of decades was the gist of the entire problem. And so, the only think that was a remedy was to do the opposite of what he had already done.

Hope that makes sense.

Here's one perspective from a professional.


Mending A Shattered Heart"
A guide for partners of sex addicts....By Stephanie Carnes PH.d

Page 37- 45
Partners of sex addicts commonly demonstrate six stages of personal growth and development. These stages were initially developed by Dr Patrick Carnes. His research focused on sex addicts and their partners. He followed 99 partners of sex addicts over five years, as they progressed from finding out about the addiction to integration of this, in their lives.
These six stages will serve as a model to help guide you through a rough and necessary journey toward your healing and recovery. There are aspects of the stages that will best describe you today. But the stages are also meant to give you a practical set of steps involved in recovering from this crisis in your life. Most important, the stages help you see that you are not alone and that things can improve.
The Stages;
* The Developing Stage/ Pre-Discovery
* Crisis/ Decision/ Information
* Shock
* Grief/ Ambivalance
* Repair
* Growth
How you experience the stages of recovery will depend on many factors, including your personality, any medical or psychiatric diagnoses such as depression or addiction and past loses. If you have experienced losses or betrayals, or have suffered abuse or trauma in your background, you may find it more difficult to move through your stages.
You may find one stage more challenging than another, and you may even stay in one stage for a longer period of time. You may confront a new crisis or challenge which may pull you back into an earlier stage, such as triggering event like the anniversary of discovering your partners addiction or an old cell phone bill. These triggers can conjure up old feelings that you believed you had resolved. Similarly, you may see yourself vacillating between two or more stages at once.

1. Developing Stage
Is the period of time prior to knowing there was a problem or before discovery/ disclosure. You may find during this stage that you were either completely in the dark about the addiction, or had some suspicions but were not fully aware of the extent of your partners sexual acting out. During this stage, you might try to keep the peace in the home and hold an idealised view of the relationship.
If you were completely in the dark about the acting out, you may have had a hunch that something wasn't right with the addict. You likely experienced the unmanagability of the addiction in the other areas of your life, such as parenting, finances, work and intimacy. Because life was increasingly unmanageable, you may have found yourself attempting to control the other areas of your life, such as work, the children, the household etc.
Conversely, you may have known about certain aspects of the behaviour, like pornography use, but had no idea about the content of the sex acting out. When you accidently found suspicious info you might have overlooked it or believed the addicts convincing explanantions. Your gut instint may have been telling you one thing but your mind told you another. You sensed that something was wrong, however, you didn't have the info to back it up. Instead you questioned yourself and would give your partner the benefit of the doubt. This may have even resulted in you questioning your own self worth.
During this stage its common to tolerate behaviours that others woulf find intolerable. This may include verbal or physical abuse, lack of availablity, emotional distance, and a lack of functioning in many areas. You may have found yourself caretaking to a fault. Unconsciously, you may have minimised the addicts behaviours, and covered up for them by making excuses or concessions despite your better judgement. You may have found yourself defending the addict, and believeing the addicts words over his actions.
Core Characteristics;
* believing tall tales
* tolerating and normalising unacceptable behaviour from the addict
* self doubt, not trusting gut instincts
* having hunch something is not right
* seeking couples therapy
* unmanagability
* loss of values, morals, or beliefs deemed imporatnt to keep peace with your partner

2. The Crisis/ Decision Stage
During this stage, the facade of the secret life of the addict has been exposed, and reality and disillusionment is beginning to settle in. As in any life-altering crisi, how you respond has a lot to do with your personality and if you suffered from prior crisi in your life. This means that if you are someone who has experienced frequent loses, then you are apt to be more reactionary than someone who has not. The old responses get reactivated and add to your distress. In addition, the duration of the addicts behaviours, the types of behaviours engaged in, and length of time of the relationship will also influence how you respond to the fallout of discovery/disclosure.
If you are someone who withdrawls from crisis, you will find that you want to avoid knowing about the addict or sex addiction in general. You may act as though nothing has changed and try to keep up with your normal respomsibilities. Or if you are someone who is more action-oriented, you will find yourself seeking honesty and accountability from the addict, despite the fact that a part of you cannot trust what she or he says.
Due to broken trust, you may find yourself checking up on your partner or playing detective to determine if he or she is still lying and acting out. In fact, you may find yourself doing these behaviours when typically you are not someone who snoops or even wants to, but you find you are compelled to look for things. You may ruminate or obsess about the addict, his ir her whereabouts and seek to review the details of his or her behaviour repeatedly.
Much of this is in attempt to examine what happened and to come to terms with how you didn't figure out what your partner was up to before the discovery. You may be replaying the past in an attempt to capture how you could have prevented it from happening or confronted it sooner. All of these action steps are in response to being lied to and are a strategy to ward off the painful realities you are beginning to experience as a result of the betrayal.
Core Characteristics;
* a catalytic event occurs: you discover or are disclosed to about your partners duplicate behaviour.
* information gathering
* taking action/ making decisions, such as sending the sex addict to treatment or joining a 12 step group.

3. The Shock Stage
The crisis and shock stage often overlap, and for some may even happen simultaneously. During the crisis you learned about behaviours, gathered info, and perhaps responded by making decisions. Shock is how you responded emotionally and spiritually to the crisis confronting you.
The upheaval during the shock stage can last 6 months and at times years. Variables that predict how long you are in these two stages depend on your presponse to the crisis and how your partner does or doesn't progress in recovery. Feelings of betrayal are overwhelming and mistrust of the addict reaches its peak. You seek honesty and accountability from the addict even though he or she has become untrustworthy to you. Despite this, you want disclosure of all previously concealed info or believe there is more when you have been told that there isn't. You don't know what to believe and you suffer from a multitute of reactions.
You may have periods of numbness, contrasted by times of upheaval and conflict. At times, you may find it easier to avoid the feelings. However, despite this strategy, there are often many feelings lurking underneath the surface that arise during times of conflict such as anger, resentment, pain, shame, hostility, and hopelessness. You may be experiencing crying spells, depression, and even thoughts of suicide. You may begin to question your worth.
Understandably, you will have tremendous self doubt and will need outside support to help you validate your pain and challenge some of your thinking. Living in an addictive system is about secrets and isolation from others. Recovery becomes about letting others into your world and learning new behaviours and choices that were previously unavailable to you.
Core Characteristics;
* emotional numbness or avoidance
* feelings of victimimation
* suspiciousness
* terror about the slips, future relapse
* distrust
* conflict
* feelings of despair
* anger, hostility, self rightousness, blame and criticism

4. Grief and Ambivalence Stage
One of the most important aspects of moving through your pain is recognising and experiencing your grief. Acknowledging your pain and sadness is essential to moving past feelings of anger and betrayal. At the core of betrayal are feelings of pain, sadness and rejection. Anger is often considered a secondary emotion to pain and sadness. So grieving is one of the central processes allowing you to move through your anger and feelings of betrayal. The wounding you have experienced cuts to the very core of your heart and soul, leaving you feeling shattered. Allowing yourself time to grieve the many losses during this time will help propel you into the next stage of repair and growth.
Distinguishing grief from self pity is important too. You may believe that feeling sorry for yourself is a waste of time and an indulgence that should not be tolerated. But grief is essential because it is that most private area of yourself that allows you to own your pain on a deeper level. Acknowledging, "Hey I have been seriously wronged and i hurt" is important. It helps you stop internalising the problem and move into your own core feelings of loss, betrayal and sadness. It allows you freedom from focusing on what the addict is or isn't doing which will assist you in connecting with your authentic self.
Some of the losses you will experience are;
Loss of the dream of your relationship
Loss of self
Loss of relationship as it once was
Loss of emotional safety
Loss of sexual safety
Loss of financial stability
Spiritual vacancy eg; 'where is god?'

You may contemplate separation, divorce, and have fantasies about how life would be without the partner or wish something would happen to him so you wouldn't have to go through this pain anymore. You may also find yourself attracted to someone else. Alternatively the idea of being attracted to someone else may repulse you and conjure up feelings of mistrust and tremendous fear.
One of the significant gifts that comes from this stage is the gift of self awareness and introspection. Instead of focusing on the addicts needs and wants, you begin to focus on your needs and wants. Your self care typically deepens during this stage. This is an essential shift to make in the healing process because without focusing on yourself, you will not move into the next stage of repair.
Core Characteristics;
* grieving losses
* feelings of dpression
* ambivilance about the relationship
* increased introspection and focus on the self
* less focus on the addicts behaviour and more on your own

5. Repair Stage
For many partners, it can take years of shock and grief before healing really starts to solidify and they move into the repair stage, Repair is marked by increased introspection and less focus on the addicts nehvaiour. Although you continue to hold the addict accountable for what he did to you, you have moved toward greater responsibility and honesty for your own happiness. You know you need to be treated respectfully and honesty by the addict, but you see how others treat you stems from your own self worth.
You may alos start to make the connections between your past during this stage. For example; you may consider how your family of origin impacted your choices and influenced your adult actions, especially in your relationship with the addict. This may include focusing on the themes from your past, such as abandonment, abuse and neglect.
Many partners deepen their spirituality at this time. Coping skills and social support systems become stronger. Secrecy and isolation are replaced with solitude and compassionship. Self defeating behaviours often diminish. Overall your deep pain and turmoil subsides and a more relaxed, introspective self emerges with a stronger voice.
These changes reflect in your relationship as well. You will have a better understanding of the addiction and the addicts behaviours, which places you in a stronger position to evaluate the relationship. You have a clearer picture about the addicts sexual acting out and the boundries you need to keep yourself safe. You belive the actions, not the words of the addict, and you don't live in denial of the addiction or the addictive behaviours. You are able to hold the addict accountable and not fear communication. You are able to see red flags and confront them effectively. If you become retraumatised by relapses or divorce, you openly seek additional resorces and handle it. You are more emotionally prepared to make a decision to leave a relationship if indicated. If the addict is in recoevry, and your relationship is progressing in a healthy way, you may explore trust and intimacy that is deeper than before.
Core Characteristics;
* intropsection
* decision making stage about the relationship
* deeper insight into causes of your co-addiction
* family of origin themes examined and intergrated
* prior losses more fully grieved
* increased strength and coping skills
* Boundary setting
* emotional stability

6. Growth Stage
The final stage is growth. This syage involves continued self transformation. One of the hallmarks of this stage for partners is letting go of feelings of victimization and replacing it with resiliency. You may discover a way to make meaning out of your suffering.
Gratitude for the addiction and the opportunities for self actualization that it provided occur here. The addiction was a catalyst for change and you responded to it. The many challenges you faced elevated you to a higher level of well being and you experience of inner peace and greater appreciation for the work that you had to do in confronting this challenge.
You turn outward, not in a caretaking sense, but in a genuine desire to pass on what was given to you. Your compassion for other peoples pain reinforces your committment to healing. You can now realisitically check your motivations and can catch yourself when you fall into old self defeating patterns.
Core Characteristics;
* decreased feelings of being victimised by the addiction
* focus on issues not directly related to the addiction
* communication of your role in the dyfunction of the relationship increases
* acknowledgement of the gifts the addiction has bought to your life
* ability to be present and fully focused on the other areas of life.

SheenRe..can I get that in the Readers Digest condensed version?

Kudos on 18 days abstinent from Pornography. I can only manage a week at a time away from it.

Sailor: I think that may already be the condensed version....ha. It is a snippet from a book, so, very condensed.