Sex Men and God by Doug Weiss

Chapter 5 - The M Word

By far, one of the most controversial subjects in the church today regarding male sexuality is masturbation. As the church gets older, men are discussing this subject more and more. In our Western culture this can actually be a divisive issue. To make matters worse, few, if any, church denominations have a written doctoral stance on masturbation. Combine this lack of attention in the church with the fact that men get little to no information from their fathers about sexuality and you can see why this issue can be so misunderstood and emotionally based. Needless to say, in our journey toward sexual success the climb is going to be rocky. But I guarantee that you will learn more about masturbation and its differences, and by the end of this chapter you will be able to conclude intelligently for yourself and for your son(s) where you indeed stand on this issue.
Three Types of Masturbation
Men that masturbate generally fall into three categories. As you read through this section, you probably will quickly identify yourself. Thats the easy part. The hard part is in trusting the other two camps that other men identify with even exist. The reason men often believe that their category is the only category for masturbation is because most men base their thought processes on their own experiential template. Our own experiences often limit our thinking process. For example, I have had bad experiences trying to fix things around the house. I was never taught how by any of my fathers. Because of this, my experience tells me that generally all men, except the professionals, are bad at handyman work. Conversations with many of my peers validate this because they also call professionals to fix things around the house. Now I would have to think outside of my experience to believe that an average guy can fix most things in his house with no problem. Well of course there are guys like that. I see them at Home Depot all the time. But if I limit my thinking to only my experience, I will also limit my perspective. Ive said all that as a preface to our discussion.
As I walk through the three masturbation types, please be patient. I know for a fact that there are men in all three categories.
Masturbation Type A Of the three types of masturbation, this is by far the smallest camp in the Western world and the hardest for some to believe actually exists. This is the man who has never masturbated in his entire life. Although some of you are thinking, No way! I want you to remember that just because its not your experience it doesnt mean it doesnt exist. During my travels as I present at mens conferences across the country, I often ask the men about their type of masturbation. I have met only eleven men over the years that fit in this category, and three of them go to my church! In their reasoning they just didnt think to do it or it didnt make sense to them. Ill not forget when one minister from another nation, whom I know and trust, told me that most men in his country dont masturbate. When I asked why, he told me that in his country it was thought to be a sign of weakness. Can you imagine a whole country of men not masturbating? I believe most of my readers would find that difficult to comprehend. Such men may be in the minority in our country, but they are out there.
Masturbation Type B With the second pattern of masturbation, the behavior is a decision made usually between the ages of 12 and 16 years old, and not typically as an adult Christian man. When this teenager begins to masturbate, he stays fully connected to himself during the act, i.e. he does not lust or create sexual fantasies with the girls he knows. He would never use pornography during masturbation. For this boy, hes simply engaging in a bodily function. This teenager generally doesnt struggle with lust. Since he doesnt fantasize he doesnt feel the guilt or shame often involved with masturbation. He feels no separation from God and goes on with the rest of his day as if nothing happened. He does not make up a fantasy world and he doesnt use masturbation to meet the emotional needs in his life. He just stays connected, releases and moves on. Again, some of you are scratching your head saying, No way! How could someone even do that without visual stimulus? Remember that just because this is not your experience doesnt negate the fact that it still is possible for others. Remember our earlier conversation about the brain and sex? The man in this category does not connect to anything. Often when this man gets married, his masturbation behavior disappears or becomes very infrequent.

Masturbation Type C This is the disconnected camp where objects are used during masturbation, whether it be a fantasy or an actual physical item. Teenage boys in this camp use fantasy, pornography or some form of objectifying women not only to arouse them during masturbation, but also to bring them to a point of ejaculation. When such a teen enters this other world of fantasy, pornography and objectification, he has to spiritually and emotionally disconnect so he can fully engage in the fantasy state that he is creating. (Remember from our previous conversation that internal sexuality and lust is always sin.)
For some men in this camp, the same fantasy of a particular sex act (for example: oral sex) is used over and over again with a woman who really wants to be sexual with him. Often he chooses the same type of fantasy woman (a particular race, a specific shape or a certain age woman). Any woman outside of his particular focus is less than interesting to him.
Others in this camp can be completely the opposite. They are more interested in variety. They believe there shouldnt be any boundaries to their sexual fantasies and hence, they will objectify almost anyone in their fantasy state and any sex act (legal or not) is acceptable and stimulating to them.
Although the fantasy isnt real, the object of the fantasy does whatever you want, whenever you want, always wants more, never asks for money, doesnt have children, never gets tired of you, and above all really likes having sex with you. This fantasy is a sham and the woman in it isnt real. However, if a man engages in an object-type of self sex and develops a neuropathic chemical reinforcement in his brain, it will affirm to him that object-type sex is chemically awesome. The desire to repeat this disconnected sex increases with the frequently in which he participates in this behavior. Not only is this man disconnected during his sexual acts with himself, he is also reinforcing some pretty powerful yet unrealistic belief systems about sex.
Here is a list of some of the things men have placed in their fantasies.
Sex is only with beautiful women.
Sex is only with women who are in shape and have no fat.
Women want sex all the time.
Women think about sex all the time.
The woman does all the work.
Nothing is demanded of me but to receive sex (not give).
Sex is all about me and what I want.
I never hear no when it comes to sex.
There is no good reason not to have sex.
I am the center of the world and the world revolves around me. Women are here to do as I ask. Women want to be degraded and talk dirty.
The list can go on and on with many attitudes brought into his disconnected fantasy state. Now remember that most of these sexual beliefs and attitudes are formed when you are the most self-centered creature in the worldan adolescent male. Adolescents dont think about much more than themselves, their bodies, their friends and their life. It is easy to see why an adolescent male would create such a fantasy world.
This disconnected fantasy state gets reinforced neurologically each time he goes into the fantasy world. Some men can keep this type of sexuality strictly in fantasy, but others may try to turn these fantasies into reality.
The purpose of the fantasy world is another issue. If the fantasy to which a man is disconnecting to becomes illegal, degrading or deviant, it is more than likely that he will experience sexual self-shame. He may know masturbating to this fantasy is wrong or unhealthy, but he will eventually get stuck in the chemical rush he is rewarded with afterward. It feels good, but its wrong, and so he often feels confused.
So you can see even in this disconnected camp that there are differences. When disconnecting during masturbation, the only point of similarity between men is the point of ejaculation. Otherwise the differences vary so widely that they are not within the same internal experience at all.
The issue with this form of masturbation is that lust is a big part of the act. For this reason the man with the Type C masturbation often feels guilt and shame and disconnected from God. This is the kind of masturbation that most have experienced and have possibly repeatedly repented of.
For many adult men who grew up in the sexual revolution, this is probably your experience. Sadly, Christian men and heathen men were both educated sexually by Playboy, not their fathers or godly men in the church. Its just recently that men are reclaiming this area for their sons. Our video Shepherding Your Sons Sexually sells everywhere because of the desire men have to give more to their sons than their fathers gave them.
Lets get back to our original trail. We now can see that men do masturbate differently. Because the single word masturbation can differ so radically, this word masturbation no longer explains enough to know what we are really referring to. This is why I like to ask my clients they are engaging in type A, B or C masturbation. Its a way to talk in much more clear terms regarding masturbation.

Honesty Is the Issue

Most of the wives I have counseled with really dont understand the whole masturbation thing at all. The issue that stands out for them is lying. Women cannot get it; to them lying is the number one sin you can commit. They already realize that their spouse will fall into doing some sin at some point in lifewe all do; were human. So why lie about it? That just may start a war. When you lie to a woman, you might as well have called her the ugliest name that you can think of. Women take lying as a personal affront. Honestly, I cant say that I understand it perfectly myself, but I can tell you from the many years of experience as a therapist that this is true.

You may say that she has never asked you about your masturbation habits; thus you have never lied. Unfortunately, only men think this way. If you never told her, why didnt you? If youre really okay with what youre doing in private, why not tell her? If both of you sit down and agree that its okay for you to have a sexual behavior without her, then she should be fine with knowing the truth. At least she knows, and she has a vote in the process. It is her money and her sexuality youre spending, not just yours. Now, if you are coming home from a trip, you can be as open and honest about your self-sex experience as you are about the rest of the experiences you had on the trip.

If this sounds too strange for you to do, then you might have made a sexual decision for yourself that is not mutually agreed upon and is secretive. This can lead to marital and personal problems down the road. If you cant be honest with your wife about your total sexual expression, then you probably need to evaluate the reason for the ongoing lies to your wife.

How would you like to find out that your wife has a secret financial, sexual or other area of life? If youre lying to your spouse, it isnt going to be good for your future sexual success. It may be what is keeping you from having full three-dimensional sex with your wife, and will keep you from your best sexual experience ever.
Some women dont want to know if you masturbate, but giving them the choice to know is an honest position. Ask your wife, Do you want to know if I masturbate? Do you want to know if I view pornography or fantasize about others when I masturbate? Then, instead of you making these choices for her and having an ongoing secret in your relationship, she can voice her opinions and make a joint decision with you. Secrets kill intimacy and affect sexuality.

Some of you may believe you already know your wifes position on these topics and youre unwilling to expose this area, wanting to keep it to yourself. If she doesnt get a choice and you stay in an active state of withholding complete information, it will probably blow up in your face in a big way down the road. Remember, her father is God and just because you wont tell doesnt mean He wont tell her for you.

I encourage you at least to give her the choice regarding how much of your sexuality is hers and how much of your sexuality is just for you. Honesty is the best policy when it comes to being sexually successful. are coming home from a trip, you can be as open and honest about your self-sex experience as you are about the rest of the experiences you had on the trip.

If this sounds too strange for you to do, then you might have made a sexual decision for yourself that is not mutually agreed upon and is secretive. This can lead to marital and personal problems down the road.

If you cant be honest with your wife about your total sexual expression, then you probably need to evaluate the reason for the ongoing lies to your wife. How would you like to find out that your wife has a secret financial, sexual or other area of life? If youre lying to your spouse, it isnt going to be good for your future sexual success. It may be what is keeping you from having full three-dimensional sex with your wife, and will keep you from your best sexual experience ever.

ok I am a woman but do have low level SA, and i have always been a type B person....until I was exposed to my H's porn...now I am struggling with those awful images and thoughts of his activites which cause disturbing thoughts during masturbation....the images are surely underestimated as very powerful and damaging to normal sexuality.. so I think people can learn to be type B and I also see how the exposure to porn, especially wihtout a good mentor to talk about sex in a comfortable way, leads to type C people, and is hard to change back to Type B.

As a woman, I would like to say it is not the lying that we object to, but it is the subject matter of lying about lusting after other woman in any capacity that makes us mad....as we innately know we are meant to be the only source of your sexual fulfillment and we are negated as wives when you give your sexuality to another, real or pix, instead of us....

my H could have lied he liked my meatloaf and when I found out I would have laughed and said, silly you should have told me and I won't make it anymore....but when a man promises to be faithful and then you discover he has lied about it in some way, including lies of omission...which the guys know is wrong clearly since they omit it....well that infuriates us.....

please do not paint us woman as crazy jealous wives who are unforgiving or unable to accept people sometimes tell fibs or forget to tell us unimportant things....and also you do admit in your one part about how men would be equally angry at us women for doing the same thing to you. and COs that have wives who are SAs know this to be true.. it is not a gender thing that women get more mad at men who lie than men get mad about it....all people get mad when they are lied to as it is disrespectful.....with SA, it is the lying, but it is really not just the lying, it is about telling us when you married us that we were enough for you, and then finding out later that is clearly not true since you need the porn or whatever...

Most of us would not have married you if we knew, which shows how important those lil lies of omission are....and most of us also would not be mad now because if you had told us you were never going to give up your porn once you got us, we would have been able to choose our lives to be alone or withsomeone else and not here being hurt by an SA...we would have walked away and would not be here dealing with all the pain of the lies......

Anyway I think we can all agree the porn is so dangerous and any lies on either side, especially about your intimate sexlives in a marriage are very dangerous and can be very costly to all involved....one of the scariest things i have read lately is that this is becoming the norm now, young guys who prefer to masturbate to porn rather than have sex with real women..another was having young boys talk openly with absolutely no shame at a sweet 16 party in front of parents and young girls about how they were going to strip clubs, one after another as not only is 1 girl not enough, 1 strip club is not enough for them.....and they see it as so normal.....my guess is that prior to Hugh Hefner and all this porn, most guys were either Type A or Type B....and now most are Type C...so sad for them and for the girls......

Glad to see you giving advice to spread the word Choose and help give these young people good guidance that our generation has lacked. I too share this information with my girls and their friends...Good luck to all.

First of all I believe type A men should also be treated for telling fibs.
I am a type B, no question but I know guys at work who talk and they are definatly type C. I think type C is obviously wrong and disrepectful to women and or your wife. Assuming type A does not exist and I dont believe it does then theoretically and even biblically there is nothing wrong with type B. There is no fantasy, there is no sinful thought, just a release of natural sexual tension that cannot always be dealt with by ones wife/husband. The key is not crossing a very dangerous thin line.

Harry,

I agree with both the biblical foundation, and the dangers of adding lust and visual fantasy to masturbation. That is the foundation of the multi billion dollar porn industry.

BUT, I persnoally know men who are Type A, and they are not lying.

Most would argue that masturbation can not be done without fantasizing. Even as a sex addict, I have personally experienced Type B both before and after recovery. In fact, before recivery, I had no control or need to be careful how I did it. After recover it is neither compulsive, and I choose when I do it , and I seldom do it at home, and as of late never without my wife's permission.

In fact, when you (I) are careful about keeping the lust out of it, then it really deminishes the power of it, and it really does become a biological thing. And not that intersting.

Thanks for the thoughts. My objective here is to have a discussion about how to encourage young men, or our sons, not to experience any shame, but also to encourage them to keep it from being compulsive, or problematic because of the lust and fantasy. The church often shames by saying it is wrong, and orgs like Every Mans Battle, which has some very good points, make the assumption that it is bad and wrong, again adding to the shame,but effectively teaching you how to abstain.

Just thinking out loud.

Thank you for this very interesting thread. I have learned a lot from it, and shared it with my H.
As a mother of three young boys, I have wondered about this too. My H had been taught so much shame about sex, he honestly didn't masturbate to orgasm until after we were married. I can't but help think that if he did it as a type B during his teenage years, and perhaps discovered it even accidently, like I did as a young teen, things may have been a lot different now. I lost the need for it after I was fifteen, and started dating and maturing. I just grew out of it as a normal process, I guess.
Perhaps why type A is encouraged is because in today's world with so much sex perversion out there, type B will usually evolve into type C. Masturbation is often used as a way to soothe from lifes troubles and problems, rather than facing them. It's like taking the risk of smoking just one cigarette. There is a chemical release that is comparable to narcotics, and therefore has the potential to become very addictive, whether you are fantasizing or not, right?
I hope that when my son(s) discovers masturbation, which I am sure he will eventually, he will not feel shamed for it, but at the same time we can teach him how important it is not to lust and look at women and girls as merely sex objects. This is very hard in today's world, I know. I would hope that he would love life enough and have plenty of things he was involved in so that he would have a good self esteem and not have to turn to that in order to feel worth and loved.
I think one other thing about masturbation is the fact that you train your body to orgasm with your hand, in your own way, and it is not the same as with your wife. I have heard of men that couldn't feel as aroused or function with their wives, because of frequent masturbation.
My husband has stated that his head is more clear and he feels closer to God without masturbation as a part of his life anymore. My question to you: Is masturbation really necessary? If you have a good sex life at home, a good spiritual life, hobbies, interests, goals...couldn't you start replacing it with other things and saving yourself and your energy in that department for your wife?

As one who did not masturbate for the first 44 years of his life, I have a few things to share with you.

Number one, (with regard to the unmarried), there is absolutely nothing wrong with occasional masturbating. You will not find one word about it in God's word; you can be sure that something would have been written in Scripture if God (the inventor of SEX) had not wanted people to masturbate.

For the married, it is a completely different story. I hope that helps you a little bit.

I have often thought about how I will deal with this subject with my own son; he just turned 9. Being the SA in the parenting duo I want to make sure that he has a healthy view of his sexuality and the desires that will soon come along. As for me, sex is my cutting tool in self mutilation. While it doesnt result in physical damage it certainly does leave emotional scars. I want my son to know that its okay to have these desires and that he will need to release the results of them; he may already be having fantasies and Im not aware of it. I recall masturbating at his age and thought of those on a popular TV show at the time. I hadnt yet had the talk with my mother, but innately I knew what sex was and that a man and woman did it together. Sex has not been a taboo subject in the house; we have had [age appropriate] discussions on marriage, sex and having a family. So there isnt any confusion, it should be noted that my son has not been exposed to a lot of sexual content. For now, my plan is to talk openly about this subject with him when the need arises. I will do my best to explain to him that while it may seem natural to think about women when he does this; he shouldnt objectify them as sex objects. I hold onto the belief that open communication about this will be the best way to keep him in the B category. It is also my philosophy on any of the tough subjects when it comes to kids.

A question for you Choose: Being that youre in a stable marriage, why is there the need to masturbate alone? Is it that your drive is higher than your spouses, thus requiring additional release?

I have answers for both you and mismo. I just want to hear what others think first.

Is masturbation really necessary? If you have a good sex life at home, a good spiritual life, hobbies, interests, goals...couldn't you start replacing it with other things and saving yourself and your energy in that department for your wife?

A question for you Choose: Being that youre in a stable marriage, why is there the need to masturbate alone? Is it that your drive is higher than your spouses, thus requiring additional release?

I do not think mastrubation is necessary, and I can admit that the urgency of doing it is negative emotions. As I said I travel, alot in my job, and when on the road, HALT (hungry, angry, lonly, tired) happens alot. Hungry is because going out every night, and either eating with a group of co workers, is an energy draining party, or eating alone is well lonly, hunger plays a part. Anger is not that big of an issue unless my wife and I are not careful and we pick a fight either before I leave, or over the phone. Lonly and tired are a given on the road.

So, I can admit that I am weaker on the road so masturbation for comfort is really easy to do. That is one of my reasons to change my standard from no mastrubation to no mastrubation withouth my wife's permission. This standard invovles her. Which I think is necessary to purity, "No sexual gratification that my wife is not aware of, approves of, and is involved with"

Also as Biker Bum said, the only two scriptures that refer to mastrubation Gen 38:9+ and Leviticus 15:16+ at best call it unclean for a day. Onan was killed for disobeying God not mastrubating. So being a fundamentalist, I can not conceed to no mastrubation because it is wrong.... because did not make that clear, like some would suggest.

Back to my thought. If my wife approves, and it does not cause shame for me, and it does not involve lust, then I think it can be a positive, pleasant way to relax when I travel. Just like sex would be.

There are several ppotential issues with this theory. First, I must achieve enough intimacy with my wife to be willing to ask her permission, and submit to her "no" if that is the answer.

Second, is it really possible not to lust while doing it. And is it "redeemed" to think about your wife rather than others while dooing it?

Finally, how does it keep from being compulsive again.

The answer is likely something like this. If I ask my wife and she says " You dont have to do that, your sex is my job to satisfy. Wait till you get home and I will take care of you." Then not only do I not want to mastrubate, I am eager to get home. It could become a problem if she frogets,or disregards how improtant that is to me when I get home, but that is a whole different story.

Recently, i have got to the place where maybe it is more important not to dissapoint her by doing it than to have the pleasure. THis is sort of about her not really approving, but conceeding because she feels like I need it. The reality is that I do not really need it, what I need is her to understand my sexual needs and and assure me that she is committed to meeting them. (Let me make it clear that my sexual needs are very much meetable by her, my addicts sexual needs are so insatiable that she could never meet those.)

Regarding lust, The biggest thing is did was use the rubber band (aversion therapy) very dutifully to retrain my brain against fanstasy, Also i keep my eyes open and stay in the present.

I have to go for now, but I have more......

Ok, so how do we keep our young sons from being trapped by the compulsion, chemestry and possibly of the addiction.

I thnk the answer is something like this.

First and formost repentance. Dealing with it in force in our own lives is the key to breaking the generational curse of this sin.

Second, I think being gentle, frank honest and availble BEFORE they discover it, and training them in the proper ways to deal with the things we use masturbation to cope with is the proper answer.

The arguement is that telling your son about mastrubation before he does it would give him the idea, compromize his innocence, and set him up to doing it. I think the opposite may be true. That telling him about the three types, explaining how the chemestry works, how to learn to avert his eyes and control his lust, teling him how to treat women by my example of how I treat his mother, and freeing him from the shame of it, by breaking through the secretiveness of it up front, all could contribute to him being a type A.

The secret thing is complex. I think it is totally inappropriate to masturbate with anyone around other than my wife. so, this proper privacy about it, can also be interpreted as shameful secretiveness if it is not dealt with in an un-disturbed calm way.

I have heard many stories about how an angry, fearful, and "oh my god, my son is a pervert" reactions that mothers have when they catch their sons doing it, or even touching themselves when they are much younger, cause the setup of toxic shame. so if the father is so afraid of opening this dialogue with the sons, and leave it up to a mother who does not really get the male appitite for sex, then it is very easy to set up the toxic shame of addiction.

SO, I am thinking, "don't worry about it" is not the answer, nor is "don't do it" But maybe, here are the reasons it can be best not to do it, and here are the reasons to do it, and if you decide to do it, here is what you need to be careful to about.

Here is a good boundary. " iI decided not to allow anything visual to be involved in masturbation."

If this is the boundary, that means no porn, no fantasay, and likely keeping your eyes open when you do it. And maybe praying for our wives before during or after could be useful.

I would feel very honored, if my son came to me and had this coversation.

"Dad, I mastrubated 3 days in a row, I think it is because I am worried about this test in algebra. I did what you suggested, and prayed for my future wife before I did it each time, and that helped me keep from lusting, but I can tell I did it because I am stressed out. What do you think?"

I would say, "Wow, I am so very proud of you, for your honesty, integrety, your love for your wife, and the maturity that let you see that it was the stress that you were reacting to. How can I help you learn different ways to face your anxiety about the test? Would you like to get up early and jog with me each day until your test is done? How about raquetball. or ... or.... or...."

That would be a beautiful thing,and I would bet he would soon give it up after we learned how to cope with each of the plethera of emotions puberty floods us with.

It is a baffling issue for parents. I know how not to do it. The head in the sand approach did ot work out for me.

I think I will ask the men I know who have never masturbated, how their parents handled it.

BikerBum, How did your parents handle this and other topics of sex with you? Any insites?

I'm gonna have to go with C on this one...minus the compulsive, shameful part :) I gotta LOT of testosterone runnin' in these veins ! lol

My h probably started out a B and evolved into a C. He was also brought up in the Catholic Faith, piled on thick with a lovely dose of Toxic Shame.

I knew my h masturbated and looked at porn when i married him. He was a longhaul truck driver, and was away all week. He had a pile of mags in his cabin, and kept him happy while away. I had no problem with this. He also had porn videos (before dvds) at home, in fact it was often a joke, Monday mornings were Porn Morning, when i went to gym.
I knew, and i had no issue. It was who he was, we had a healthy sexlife, and as i had my 3 babies i just simply could not be available, so i happily let him fill the void with porn. I thought i was being mature about it, i thought we had a healthy and agreed upon comprimise. And we did, to my knowledge.
Unfortunately his desire grew, his boundries of acceptabilities went over and he was not honest about it. All of his activities were disrespectful to our marriage, and hurt me quite deeply when i finely found out about them. You know i have found it easier to forgive his misdeeds, and yet the lying really still irks me.
I have been through alot as a wife, and now 2 years into recovery, if he tells me he is struggling i will listen and try and understand, help plan to move forward and be there for him.
But if he isn't honest with me about something, or omits to share a struggle.....by golly yes i would be angry. I just cannot tolerate dishonesty. So yes i fall into the catorgory of women who demand honesty. On deeper thought of why this is so.....hmmm
I think i have been put through alot by him, i have forgiven him for alot, and have supported him throughout. In return i wish to have the same respect returned, for i am worthy of the truth.
If i think he is worthy of my love and undying devotion, then i think i deserve honesty in return, at the very least. This is just my personal view, and i respect every ones individual choice on this.

I have enjoyed reading this post, thankyou Choose for taking the time to share.