Sex / Pornography Addiction Support Group
Sexual addiction, also sometimes called sexual compulsion, is a form of psychological addiction to sexual intercourse and other sexual behavior.
I presented my husband with my boundaries last Thursday. And it's taken about a week to finally talk about them. Not by his approach but my own. I believe my boundaries were very firm, and as patient as I would like to be in this process I am not going to wait around forever if he feels that he has so many chances at acting out and continuing. I will not enable his behavior especially if it is hurtful to me and potentially dangerous to my children.
The problem is, he reacted as I expected he would... he became defensive. The only things he brought to my attention from my list were my comment that I was not going to live in a home where there was inappropriate material or acting out (no sexual/flirtatious encounters whatsoever... and so on...) but he commented only on the flirtatious part. He was upset that I put that down. The other thing he said irritated him was that I wanted to put filters on the devices. Yes red flag raised immediately but I remained calm and asked why- he said it seems it would be annoying. After about five times calmly asking him to elaborate how it would be annoying his response was "Because I feel like it takes from the privacy I do have (I interjected and asked okay for what?) like for instance Christmas presents now you could potentially know what I am getting you if I order something online." I just said REALLY. That was all I had for that comment. But he did follow it up saying "I think it would be annoying but if its going to give you a peace of mind and is needed to start to rebuild trust than go forth with it." This whole conversation was while he continued to play to his video game, he just wouldn't give me his attention,so I walked away.... I told if we don't communicate than we will get nowhere. I am just so confused. He told me I left him with no choice with my boundaries that if he didn't agree to them I would leave with the kids, so therefore I manipulated him, those weren't exactly the way it was put. But that was one of my choices. That wasn't my intention I just wont put up with any behaviors that I am uncomfortable with and I wouldn't expect him to live with anything less than he deserves. I also told him I'm not asking you to change yourself, I am just asking that behaviors stop. I am not going to lie, before I brought up the topic on the boundaries, which was only to ask if he would go to counseling with me, I sat here thinking how I am so unsure at this moment if I really want to stick around. I am unsure that I can bounce back from this which isn't his fault, my insecurities are too powerful right now. I am scared that I am not good enough and that if I ever initiate sexual intimacy again that he'll "be somewhere else" or I'll be so self-conscious. He keeps asking to watch Sin City (and I have my own silly insecurities with that movie at this moment) and I haven't told him that. I feel like the pornographic material he has viewed is everything other than what I am..Asian and White. I am hispanic- nothing that says blonde. I am so insecure thinking that I am not what he wants- now I wonder if I ever was what he wanted. I'm also mind boggled that out of my whole list of boundaries those two stuck out to him, not the sexual encounters with others, not the webcamming or chatting or emailing with others in that context, not the request to stop masturbating or viewing porn, to just name a few.
I just don't know anymore. Where I once felt like we could overcome this and be closer and learn more about each other, I feel hopeless now. And that could be all me, I think I was thinking of it from a fantasy that he would be more agreeable to working on this and a bit more understanding, not sure why I was thinking like that. I feel confident outside my marriage, but in my marriage I feel like an insecure, crazy little girl that has no life and no intelligence. He just doesn't understand and I don't know why I expect him to. I guess I'm just a crossroad, don't know where to go from here anymore.
The problem is, he reacted as I expected he would... he became defensive. The only things he brought to my attention from my list were my comment that I was not going to live in a home where there was inappropriate material or acting out (no sexual/flirtatious encounters whatsoever... and so on...) but he commented only on the flirtatious part. He was upset that I put that down. The other thing he said irritated him was that I wanted to put filters on the devices. Yes red flag raised immediately but I remained calm and asked why- he said it seems it would be annoying. After about five times calmly asking him to elaborate how it would be annoying his response was "Because I feel like it takes from the privacy I do have (I interjected and asked okay for what?) like for instance Christmas presents now you could potentially know what I am getting you if I order something online." I just said REALLY. That was all I had for that comment. But he did follow it up saying "I think it would be annoying but if its going to give you a peace of mind and is needed to start to rebuild trust than go forth with it." This whole conversation was while he continued to play to his video game, he just wouldn't give me his attention,so I walked away.... I told if we don't communicate than we will get nowhere. I am just so confused. He told me I left him with no choice with my boundaries that if he didn't agree to them I would leave with the kids, so therefore I manipulated him, those weren't exactly the way it was put. But that was one of my choices. That wasn't my intention I just wont put up with any behaviors that I am uncomfortable with and I wouldn't expect him to live with anything less than he deserves. I also told him I'm not asking you to change yourself, I am just asking that behaviors stop. I am not going to lie, before I brought up the topic on the boundaries, which was only to ask if he would go to counseling with me, I sat here thinking how I am so unsure at this moment if I really want to stick around. I am unsure that I can bounce back from this which isn't his fault, my insecurities are too powerful right now. I am scared that I am not good enough and that if I ever initiate sexual intimacy again that he'll "be somewhere else" or I'll be so self-conscious. He keeps asking to watch Sin City (and I have my own silly insecurities with that movie at this moment) and I haven't told him that. I feel like the pornographic material he has viewed is everything other than what I am..Asian and White. I am hispanic- nothing that says blonde. I am so insecure thinking that I am not what he wants- now I wonder if I ever was what he wanted. I'm also mind boggled that out of my whole list of boundaries those two stuck out to him, not the sexual encounters with others, not the webcamming or chatting or emailing with others in that context, not the request to stop masturbating or viewing porn, to just name a few.
I just don't know anymore. Where I once felt like we could overcome this and be closer and learn more about each other, I feel hopeless now. And that could be all me, I think I was thinking of it from a fantasy that he would be more agreeable to working on this and a bit more understanding, not sure why I was thinking like that. I feel confident outside my marriage, but in my marriage I feel like an insecure, crazy little girl that has no life and no intelligence. He just doesn't understand and I don't know why I expect him to. I guess I'm just a crossroad, don't know where to go from here anymore.
There are so many options for you, ranging from stepping up the confrontation, doing covert stuff, ignoring it all, leaving on the assumption of the worst. I wouldn't dare suggest a route, but when you decide, I am sure you will get good advice on how to do it.
Best of luck.
I really think that you have to stand by what you know; fine if he doesn't want to admit to porn use, he cannot hide from his neglect of you and he cannot tell you that you should be happy with him. I was an awful husband too - In fact I am trying to find out if I will EVER be capable of being the husband that my wife deserves.
For me, being caught was a godsend - anytbing short of that and I do not think my wife would have had any disclosure from me. But now she has that and she is far from feeling empowered. It is a long road.
BE strong, get help, make a stand, and don't back down. Have you tried to put into an email some very specific questions?
My wife was able to finally squeeze the accountability out of me by sending an email and saying "I want answers to all of these by Sunday". She asked a whole range of questions - when did you last masturbate, how many times a week/month do you masturbate, what porn sites do you visit, what catergories do you watch, when was the last time you watched porn, what devices do you use, what room do you do it in, have you interacted with women online, have you been to strip clubs, is there anything else I should know. She wrote all these and more. When confronted with such a range of open and closed questions it is overwhelming to try and lie your way through them. The fact that your husband chooses to play video games while you ask him about these things suggests two things - he is trying to tell you that this is no big deal, and he is also keen not to look you in the eye. Giving him the chance, no the ultimatum, to answer the questions by email might give him the distance to be honest with you. He might decide to give you a little bit, but not the whole thing, so it looks "realistic". But now you have it on record, and there is one thing that all of us addicts have - brain fog. You will find that the story will change if it is made up and if you ask it again.
I think that there are two types of married addicts, the ones who struggle with the lies, and who ultimately open up fully (god knows who they are!) and the ones who are used to the lieing, are able to separate themselves from the shame of it and the awareness of how disrespectful it is, and choose to continue to be dishonest to protect their addiction and protect them from feeling the true extent of what they have done. The worst thing about this, that I have started to learn, is that the guilt and shame of being this kind of an addict is almost impossible not to project onto your wife. I think there is a chemical reason for intimacy dropping in the relationship with a porn addict, but I also think it is highly psychological - you are perceived by him as the mirror being held up to his face, he looks at you and is reminded of his shortcomings - this is a double trauma for you, the victim of his neglect is also the victim of his continued escape from full accountability.
Also, be specific in your boundaries. I found that generalizing didn't help me or my husband.
If your husband is protecting his addiction then there isn't anything you can do to control that other than to give him the choice to either get busy with recovery or leave. He needs to bottom out and that hasn't happened for him yet.
I just feel like everything triggers me now. I know sex sells and it's everywhere but when I am with him it bothers me. I have noticed he tries to minimize this so much. He is so passive and there's nothing I can do about that. I feel helpless. And I am in no way trying to make him take responsibility it just bothers me that he wont. So let me get what you said clarified.... sorry sometimes I have to read things a few times to get it at this point in my mental haze.... So the reason our sexual intimacy and intimacy in general could be dropping is because of what he sees when he looks at me? In reference to all that has taken place and the feelings it has brought about on both ends? Well that is pretty sucky because it's like a lose lose situation. And to be honest I want to engage in intimacy with him because I feel it connects us on a different level and I have always felt that way with him, but I also feel like in essence it's an obligation because if I don't he will just seek to acting out even more. It doesn't seem to bother him one bit that we haven't been close sexually or in general. It hurts even more. And who knows what he does at work or if he's accessing all this at work too.
@shanas1254 I'm scared to think of what that bottoming out entails. Oh yes he wasn't happy with my consequences, ultimately I told him I would leave and then file for divorce if he chooses to remain stagnant with this situation, and that's is when he told me that I have manipulated him and gave him no choice but to agree with my boundaries. I don't feel it was a manipulation, he still has his right to choose what he wants to do... and I also believe that after he made that comment it was a bit concerning because he made it sound like he would ultimately choose to continue but now that I was willing to leave he was so upset that "he had no choice but to stop".
http://outofthefog.net/CommonNonBehaviors/Boundaries.html
It helps me see how boundaries work. Hope it's helpful.
Untreated individuals with personality disorders are dependent on the compliance of others. They resist boundaries in an effort to control, manipulate, and dominate. Non's sometimes use boundaries in an effort to control, manipulate, and dominate too. For example, we might be tempted to tell someone "You can NOT rage at me", or "You can NOT say cruel things to me." These aren't examples of boundaries, these are examples of a Non's effort to control someone else's behavior. A healthy boundary is, "When you rage at me, I feel threatened. I am going to leave (the room, the house, etc) until such time we can communicate calmly." The other person is free to rage to his/her heart's content, but you don't have to sit there and absorb all their anger and rage. If you are saying to yourself, "Why should I have to leave the room? They should have to stop raging!", you are looking at boundaries backwards. You are taking the same approach as one would take who says, "Oh no, my house is on fire and is engulfed in flames. I'm standing at the front door but I'm not going to leave the house because my new sprinkling system will turn on an put out the flames." Are you waiting for someone or something else to make a move so you don't have to? Are you willing to take a chance of getting burned? Don't do it.
Boundaries are all around us. We come across them every day. Cars have theft-deterrent devices to prevent someone from stealing your car. Homes have deadbolts or locks to prevent someone else from invading your home and removing your possessions. Your office desk has a lock to prevent theft. Your locker at the club has a lock to keep your valuables safe. If your personal property is protected against theft, but you find yourself feeling like your emotional well-being is being stolen from you, then it's time to take steps to learn how to set boundaries so that your emotional well-being can be kept under lock and key.
Think about it. We go to a lot of effort and spend a lot of money to protect our material possessions - yet we often do little to protect ourselves. Aren't you worth more than all of your possessions?
In order for boundaries to be effective, you need to approach it with the right mindset. Recognize that you must take personal responsibility for your own well-being.
Whether you end up staying in close relationship or not, learning how to set healthy boundaries is one of the very best things you can do to ensure that you don't end up in a dysfunctional dance again with someone else.
Unfortunately, sometimes people will make wrong decisions, or decisions we can't live with.
Why your husband isn't responding the way you'd like is unknown to us. He could be addicted, he could just be selfish, or he might just see things differently and think that you are being unfair.
My advice would be to stop trying to analyze what is going on in his head and to focus on you -- what can you live with, and how will you respond if your husband chooses not to make the changes you'd like him to make?
@BryanHoward No I got what you were saying, it just kind of sucks being in this situation on this end. I understand your points, but that's where I feel helpless in this because I can't bring him back and I know it's not my decision or my responsibility. That's why I am so unsure if I should just leave. But thank you for your support, and my grilling questions.
@dlansky I agree with you and I feel like now that my boundaries are out there, I feel a lot better with myself as far as having my beliefs and my tolerances. I feel more assertive in what I feel and how to communicate it calmly (that is not saying I communicate effectively or perfectly)... but I feel like I am not so passive about this. My problem is myself and my insecurities at this point. He can say he'll give it up but I don't trust him and I am not ready to work it out come to find that in another year or months down the road we wont be back in this same boat. And I'm not asking for fixing or answers, I am just lost myself. And I am not blaming anyone for that. That's on me. I feel like even at this point - we had our first marital counseling session today - and I feel like him giving up pornography for me or for the kids (whichever way you slice it) is an "inconvenience" for him by which how he expresses it. And that is something I am not sure I am willing to live with because I am not trying to make him unhappy (and again I know this ties into trying to figure out what he is thinking) but his face and tone says it all. I don't know where exactly I was going with that sorry. I have though taken into much consideration and started focusing on myself and my children and worrying about what I need in order to be happy. And also in order to make myself feel safe again. But unfortunately, that's where I sit whether to do it here or without him. And I know at the end of that day that is my choice. Thanks for the advice I appreciate it.