Bravo to you!

I know of a few stories where someone sneaked out with a guy when their parents had told them not to and then got raped. A lot of self blame comes from "I shouldn't have been there in the first place". Your analogy helps explain why it just is never enough to be in the wrong place. Pushing someone's hand towards a hot stove and holding it down is abuse, regardless of why the hand originally came close.

But something is also bothering me. Part of it I think is the equivalence of the suffering of rape to a stove burn.

We tend to see a burn as a fair consequence of a child touching a hot stove because it would simply be impossible for a hot stove not to burn skin. It is the nature of a hot stove. However, is the suffering of rape really equivalent to a burn? What exists that inherently rapes the same way a hot stove inherently burns?

Elisheva, after reading your response I went back to write in my journal to see if I could come up with an answer.

For me it's not so much about comparing a burn to a rape but to feeling a certain level of responsibility. That in some ways what happened to me was a "fair consequence" or rather a highly predictable consequence given the circumstances.

Would I blame someone else in a similar situation, probably not. I respond to individuals on another forum frequently and offer them assurances that they aren't to blame. Yet when faced with my own situation I feel ultimately responsible.

Guess I need to go write more in my journal on why others aren't responsible for getting raped but I am.

I think probably, most of us struggle at some level about taking the blame (or trying not to) for our rapes. I had a 'classic' kind of rape in many ways, one that even the media would see me as not responsible and yet, I still struggled with not blaming myself for what I did or did not do. And yes, like you, I can often show compassion towards others, totally see why they are not to blame, when I find it so very hard for myself.
I am not sure if I read it in RAR, here, or how I have come to the conclusions I have, but I do wonder if there is something about blaming ourselves that gives us some power over what happened to us. So, if I blame myself for taking that turn, or making that decision and see that as my fault and what led me to being raped, then I can have control over what essentially is a horrifically uncontrollable event. In a bizarre way, I think it gives us some kind of power back when we were at our most powerless. I am not sure if that makes sense, and I sure others here will say it better, I guess what I am trying to say is that if I blame it on some decisions I took (or thought I took), then I can choose another time not to take those decisions and so prevent the rape from happening again.
Learning to not blame ourselves is a bit of a double edged sword. It means that we do not hold ourselves responsible for another's horrific choices but it also means we have to admit to ourselves that we were not and are not in control of every last aspect of our life because we have to live with others. That can be a hard lesson to learn and accept .
So, what you suffered was NOT a fair consequence for the choices you made nor predictable. But maybe by accepting this, it rocks you a bit because that also means you have to embrace unpredictable as a part of living in this screwed up world and that ban be pretty hard.

As i said in my last response I needed to write more to figure out why I hold myself responsible.

After much writing I think what is ultimately going on is I'm blending too much into one single outcome and turning that outcome into my own fault.

I look back at that night and I can pull out the things that I regretted doing.

The question remains, whether the regrets would have been as big had there not been a rape mixed in there.

I think back to a situation when I was 20 and I got grounded for having a boy over to the house when my parents were out of town. They called to check in and they could tell something was up so I confessed to having company. I was grounded for a month. When I think back on it though, even being grounded and knowing that I'd done something wrong I think back on it and laugh and remember thinking it was worth the risk. Had that evening gone differently maybe I wouldn't see it as a funny little anecdote.

Hi Unfurling,

Thanks for adding your thoughts.

I understand the whole taking responsibility to feel like there was something that could have been differently to prevent it.

So after even more writing I realized that any situation that I could come up with from my past where I was alone with a guy in a way that might not have been met with parental approval (or perhaps even the approval my own super-ego) and there was no unwanted contact , or if there was it was ceased at once, I don't have those same feelings of responsibility and guilt and self-loathing.

Can I ask why you think rape was a fair consequence for you?

I'm sure you can see why, when applied to other people's rapes it wouldn't be, but I am curious as to why you think rape was a fair consequence/punishment for you.

Heptet,

I had seen it as a fair consequence because of the following reasons:

1) he had informed me that he'd gone through a juvenile sex offender treatment program.

2) I let things get too far before attempting to put on the brakes.

So in my mind regardless of the first part, I saw the second part as a big part of my responsibility. The whole don't start what you can't finish thing.

Trigger Warning:

I still to this day don't know what I was thinking. I was 23, had not had sex before and hadn't really planned to either. When things started to happen I didn't stop him. I just was sort of processing it, like some kind of science experiment to see if I liked it or didn't like it. Then when things started to not feel so good and I was ready to just stop the whole thing, he told me that it would only get better if I didn't give up. I knew that some pain was to be expected the first time people attempted to have sex but I had no clue it was going to feel that bad and the more it hurt the less I wanted it and I kept saying can't we just stop this, it's not working. He said not to t to move and as I was trying to get through the pain he makes a sudden movement away from me and my stomach has a pool of ejaculate on it. I freaked out. I told him that i had to wash this stuff off. I was shaking like crazy. He walked me down to the bathroom and stayed in there with me telling me that I was going to be ok.

Although I had asked him if we could be done and it didn't stop, I never labeled my experience as rape. Because I had not intended for sex happen and it did, I believed the best thing was to stay with him because I couldn't handle feeling like a girl who just sleeps with a guy without some sort of commitment. Sex pretty much continued like that first night where I felt defective needing to make it work and when it would get difficult and I'd want to stop he'd just keep going.

The pleads to stop were there, they just were always there after it had started. It's not like he was violent, he never threw me down and ripped off my clothes. he just did stuff and I let him. So that's largely why I have a lot of self blame. I kept going back to a dangerous situation because I didn't think it could be any different.

-- 2) I let things get too far before attempting to put on the brakes....When things started to happen I didn't stop him. I just was sort of processing it, like some kind of science experiment to see if I liked it or didn't like it. --

Is it possible that you were already uncomfortable at this point and maybe using your intellect as a form of dissociation? Genuine sex involves our whole being - emotional and physical - and describing yourself or your feelings like an science experiment sounds kind of detached.

I guess I'm wondering at what point did it shift in your mind from "let it go too far" to force that was beyond your control? Often detachment can be a reaction to being overwhelmed by a situation.

[TRIGGER WARNING]

As I was maturing and discovering my sexual self, integration of emotions and physical passion was really important. I was fortunate that all of my early experiences were with people that were respectful so that integration was allowed to develop naturally in a healthy way. Then during the rape, I had to deliberately separate my body sense from my sense of self to protect myself emotionally. This wasn't some sort of involuntary dissociation. In fact, I had to be more deliberate and conscious to do it - I was undoing the healthy habits of years. I felt like a bear chewing off her foot to escape further injury or death in a trap.

One of my major sources of grief and anger post rape was the fact that a connection that I felt was sacred to my sense of self and my understanding of sex had to be broken. On one hand it helped drive home that what was happening was assuredly not sex. On the other hand it was something that I feel I should never have been made to do nor put into a situation where it was the only reasonable choice to protect myself. Although I wasn't sexually inexperienced prior to the rape (I was raped at 30), I was innocent in the sense that I had never voluntarily divorced my sense of self from my body's sexual responsiveness.

Part of the sadness of rape I think, isn't so much the choices we made, but that we were placed in situations where the only choice was between one violation or another. It is like walking into a room and then having someone grab your hand and say "well you can touch the hot stove or you can put your hand in the whirling of the fan blades, but one way or another you will be hurt. you just get to 'chose' which way."

-- 2) I let things get too far before attempting to put on the brakes....When things started to happen I didn't stop him. I just was sort of processing it, like some kind of science experiment to see if I liked it or didn't like it. --

Is it possible that you were already uncomfortable at this point and maybe using your intellect as a form of dissociation? Genuine sex involves our whole being - emotional and physical - and describing yourself or your feelings like an science experiment sounds kind of detached.

I guess I'm wondering at what point did it shift in your mind from "let it go too far" to force that was beyond your control? Often detachment can be a reaction to being overwhelmed by a situation.

-- Because I had not intended for sex happen and it did, I believed the best thing was to stay with him because I couldn't handle feeling like a girl who just sleeps with a guy without some sort of commitment. --

[TRIGGER WARNING]

As I was maturing and discovering my sexual self, integration of emotions and physical passion was really important. I was fortunate that all of my early experiences were with people that were respectful so that integration was allowed to develop naturally in a healthy way. Then during the rape, I had to deliberately separate my body sense from my sense of self to protect myself emotionally. This wasn't some sort of involuntary dissociation. In fact, I had to be more deliberate and conscious to do it - I was undoing the healthy habits of years. I felt like a bear chewing off her foot to escape further injury or death in a trap.

One of my major sources of grief and anger post rape was the fact that a connection that I felt was sacred to my sense of self and my understanding of sex had to be broken. On one hand it helped drive home that what was happening was assuredly not sex. On the other hand it was something that I feel I should never have been made to do nor put into a situation where it was the only reasonable choice to protect myself. Although I wasn't sexually inexperienced prior to the rape (I was raped at 30), I was innocent in the sense that I had never voluntarily divorced my sense of self from my body's sexual responsiveness.

Part of the sadness of rape I think, isn't so much the choices we made, but that we were placed in situations where the only choice was between one violation or another. It is like walking into a room and then having someone grab your hand and say "well you can touch the hot stove or you can put your hand in the whirling of the fan blades, but one way or another you will be hurt. you just get to 'chose' which way."

Elisheva,

I did some writing over your questions.

In regards to the science experiment part. I really think I was trying to determine what I liked and didn't like. I guess in some ways it's like tasting food. When I cook something new and I try it if it's not to the point where I'll spit out because it's so awful, I will try to think over what about it seems off or whether its missing something or maybe I just need another bite to see if it's palatable. For me physical contact was similar. I was very limited with what I would engage in on a physical level so in some ways the things I was dealing with that night were still very new to me.

When it comes to the let it go to far vs. force beyond control, I guess when it finally registered that he was working his way inside of me and I had this Oh No what have I just done moment and then just sort of tried to process the situation and then when the pain got really bad and I wanted to stop and be done with the whole thing and he didn't. I guess that moment when my wanting to stop didn't matter that's when i was met with a force beyond my control.

I guess I'm not sure I follow the idea of choosing to touch a stove or put your hand in a fan. What are the hurts being represented by those two options?

I think when we are faced with people being so upfront about their own struggles we don't judge them the same way. Being a juvenile sex offender may not have made you think..well, he'll rape me..escape now.

Often, we rationalise the world around us and/or we demonise criminals - so when faced with a person who says they are a criminal but looks normal and well adjusted, it doesn't fit with our view and this allows us to rationalise their statement ie. maybe it was a minor indiscretion, maybe it was a long time ago and he has moved on from that.

We live in a culture that seeks to rehabilitate sex offenders rather than just punish..even when certain sex offenders will never stop. So it isn't unusual or naive for you to think..maybe he has changed. And all this process may happen unconsciously.

2) I let things go too far before attempting to put on the brakes..

It isn't unusual for people to wait and see how they feel as things progress; we do so in the faith that our no or stop will be listened to. If this had been your first experience with a guy who wasn't a rapist, he would have stopped and checked that you were okay. He would have made sure you didn't feel guilty for stopping before sex had finished - since there is no real end with sex. It stops when people want it to stop.

Even now, I still try a new position to see how i like it. How else will we know what we like? When I don't like it, no matter how much my partner is liking it; we stop. A real man doesn't want to continue to have sex irrespective of his partner's needs. A rapist decides their needs are more important and turn sex into rape.

There is an exercise in RAR that you may find helpful. Sex is.. [then write what you think sex is. the exercise is on page 202]

Heptet,

Your comments brought a really helpful perspective to the sex offender piece. I had my reasons why I didn't run from the label but the fact that you can see any possible reasons why a person might not automatically run brings me much comfort. It makes me feel less like a freak about it. I'm not saying that those that would run are wrong for doing so, I'm just saying it helps to not feel judged for my decision not to run.

Thankfully my husband , who is very different from how my ex was, accepts when I don't want to do anything (he doesn't like it, but accepts it) and sometimes even when we are doing stuff he will know I'm really not there and will stop on his own. I'm blessed to have him. At times though I do wonder what things would have been like had I not had the negative experiences first.

Thanks for the info about the exercise. I'm trying to take the exercises in order and I'm not at that part yet.

I also see no automatic "I should have known" in him having been a former sex offender. I can think of at least two entirely reasonable grounds for trusting him.

For one, legal convictions are an imprecise measure of guilt. The guilty go free and the innocent sometimes get convicted. I can completely understand your wanting to make your own decision about the case. Laws can be misapplied. Cases shouldn't be decided on circumstantial evidence or prejudice, but often are. People confess to get away from high pressure interrogations rather than because it is the truth. People plea out because they despair of proving their innocence rather than because they are guilty. I can even imagine in a juvenile case, someone from an abusive home pleading guilty because they feel that detention would be safer than their home environment. You made a judgement call at the time to the best of your ability.

Second, suppose he agreed that the legal judgement was fair, but also tells you he's worked through what caused it to happen and would never willingly do such a thing again. Based on your observations of his behavior towards you, and also how in touch he seems to be with himself, you decide that it is more likely true than not that he really has changed direction in his life. When someone shows sincere evidence of change, accepting that someone has changed enough to give them a second chance is called mercy, not stupidity.

If he falsely represented his repentance, that is 100% on him. He took advantage of you and not only you, but every single person who has made a mistake and in fact has repented and is deserving of a second chance.

There is always a risk in mercy, because we can never completely know another person's heart. However, when it goes wrong, the blame is never on the merciful. Mercy is a virtue, sometimes a very costly virtue, but still a virtue. If you are Christian, and even if you aren't, you might want to ponder the story of the good Samaritan which is exactly about this issue: the risk of mercy. That story turns out well for both the Samaritan and the potential thief, but the message of the story isn't "if you trust or help people everything will be OK'. The people who refused to help has concerns that were completely legitimate. Rather the message is that "helping is a risk, but it is still a good thing to do".

But suppose your trust was unreasonable. Suppose for example, your self-esteem was really low at the time. Suppose you felt like you didn't deserve anyone else. Would you then be to blame? Personally, I don't think so. Even then you were making the best decision you could based on your beliefs and feelings of the time. Rape is NOT a fair consequence for low self esteem.

Bottom line is that you made a judgement call to the best of your ability at the time. Maybe in hindsight you can see patterns that you missed, but we don't get to live our life backwards, so the point is moot. No one can be responsible for what they did not know at the time.

Elisheva,

HIndsight is definitely 20/20 in this case. After some time out of that relationship I saw a lot of what kept me there and why.

Insight alone, however, hasn't healed me.

I guess the real work is finally starting now and perhaps I'm finally ready.