Rebuilding Marriage After Infidelity Community Group
A community for those who have been through the heartbreak of infidelity and decided to stay with their partner and try to re-build the relationship.
I am not ok. Seems the downward spiral has continued ever downward. There are a lot of reasons for this and I won't bore everyone with all of them. Mostly, I thought there might be some folks here who could offer some advice and suggestions to help me through this specific issue.
OK... so... straight up, my husband's in-laws despise me. They have rarely been polite, much less kind to me. Over the years, the feeling has become quite mutual. After reading/hearing more of Dr. Harley's marriagebuilders.com material, I can clearly see why there is such strife. My husband does NOT act as a buffer between us. He plays both sides and has always refused to draw any boundaries. He defends the most heinous of his family's actions and yet he refuses to defend me to them, instead saying, "Who cares what they think? I love you, so it doesn't matter."
More background: his parents are EXTREMELY controlling. They are especially nosy and always trying to get involved in our finances. I do understand that this is born of a place of love/concern and that they just want to look after their son, but I find it extremely annoying and offensive. His dad will say things like, "You need to send me your tax information before you submit it so I can look it over." To my husband's credit, he doesn't actually do it, but instead of just saying, "Nah, we aren't/I'm not comfortable with that," he'll make excuses. "Oh, sorry, I don't have the paperwork in front of me," or "I'll get it to you sometime next week," "Oh you didn't get it? Oops, I must have emailed it to the wrong address..." It's ridiculous. You'd think his parents would see through it. You'd think my husband would just say NO.
THIS IS WHAT BOTHERS ME SO MUCH. My husband's absolute inability to say NO. He doesn't say yes, true, but he didn't say YES to the OW, either, (allegedly) he just didn't say no, so she took it as a yes and wham bam, next thing you know, he's deep in an affair.
I'm not asking him to write his parents off forever and eternally and never speak to them. I'm not asking him to be mean or cruel to them, I'm asking for him to take and hold MY feelings above all other people's - including his parents - and say, "No thanks. Please stop asking, it's uncomfortable for us." But he won't. He doesn't.
So the latest thing was his dad sending out a thing about "unclaimed money". He could have just said, "Hey, there are websites out there that let you see if you have money owed to you," and sent us the websites. But no. Nope. He actually goes on about how he researched for us and found all this unclaimed money and how we need to get on it right away to claim it. My husband has a common name - only ONE of the claims was legitimately my husband's. I brought this to my husband's attention years ago. He said, and I quote, "It's $13. It's not worth the hassle to me. Just drop it."
So, the email and actions of my FIL were pretty upsetting to me, but worse, my husband ignored the email completely, as he is wont to do. I get copies of all of my husband's emails, but I saw that this was actually CC'd to me, so I decided to reply. Rather than just say, "Please don't do this, it's weird and violates our privacy," I essentially said that we knew about it and had for some time and that Huz wasn't interested in worrying about it then, but hey, good luck, whatever.
I know better. I KNOW better. I know to stay the hell out of it. But nope, I knew they'd start bugging ME to get on it if my husband didn't, so I was just trying to jump the gun. Bad, bad mistake. So guess what? I get a snide-oh-gram from his dad inferring that I didn't do anything with my time so why didn't I get on it since my husband is oh-so-busy and what kind of wife was I that I hadn't already handled it if I knew about it.
SERIOUSLY?
So. Yeah. I let my husband know how upset I was. He insisted, "Oh I already handled it, it's FINE." No. He didn't. Did he defend me? Nope. He wrote back that he was just so busy (which always translates to: this isn't a priority to me) and that on his days off we would deal with it. BULL. He will never deal with it but rather than tell them it doesn't matter, he just blows them off and tells them what they want to hear. Huz kept insisting that I was WRONG in my feelings and that I had NO reason to be upset/offended.
OK. Ok. The fact is, I feel like I 100% have a right to my feelings... but... I also admit I shouldn't have butt in. I should have just ignored it and then gone to my husband when they started pestering me to do something about it later down the road. In spite of feeling really hurt and angry, I told my husband I wouldn't say another word about it unless/until one of his parents brought it up again. (Which I just KNEW they would... but ok whatever.) I still was hurting SO badly that he hadn't stood up for me, but in his eyes, there was nothing to stand up for. He did, he said, he told them that "WE WERE BUSY PEOPLE". Um, a) he said HE was busy, not WE, and b) that's not the reason we hadn't dealt with it - he didn't want to, he didn't care, it wasn't important. HE. HIM. And I certainly wasn't going to break my neck over $13 of his money that he clearly didn't care about.
But does the story end there?
Nope. MIL apparently was CC'd into the conversation. She wrote my husband and talked about how I annoy her so much and how I'm so irresponsible for not taking care of the $13. She goes as far as to mention divorce in the email. She also intro'd it with, "About the letter Allora sent me..." I DID NOT SEND HER ANYTHING PRIVATELY. My husband, my FIL and my MIL were all privy to the email. But she made it sound like I went after her privately!
So what does he do? "DID YOU REALLY HAVE TO TAKE MATTERS INTO YOUR OWN HANDS?" he says to me.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
I feel so hurt. So betrayed. So angry. Even after I explained to him that she was referring to the email I sent to EVERYONE and that I hadn't sent any others, HE STILL DOES NOT DEFEND ME. Does he tell her to back off his wife? Does he say, "You know, I'm the one who told her to drop the whole $13 thing six years ago..." does he say, It's not your place to talk about divorce when it comes to my marriage?"
No. No he doesn't.
He has been this way for more than 20 years, so I don't know why I thought I'd be surprised, but I am. I really had thought we had made progress. I thought we were trying to rebuild a better, more fulfilling marriage. But things are just the same. He will never EVER put me above all other people. He will always put his parents first, he will always put other women first, too, right?
I feel so broken. So much like giving up. So much like I have WASTED the last three years of my life.
OK... so... straight up, my husband's in-laws despise me. They have rarely been polite, much less kind to me. Over the years, the feeling has become quite mutual. After reading/hearing more of Dr. Harley's marriagebuilders.com material, I can clearly see why there is such strife. My husband does NOT act as a buffer between us. He plays both sides and has always refused to draw any boundaries. He defends the most heinous of his family's actions and yet he refuses to defend me to them, instead saying, "Who cares what they think? I love you, so it doesn't matter."
More background: his parents are EXTREMELY controlling. They are especially nosy and always trying to get involved in our finances. I do understand that this is born of a place of love/concern and that they just want to look after their son, but I find it extremely annoying and offensive. His dad will say things like, "You need to send me your tax information before you submit it so I can look it over." To my husband's credit, he doesn't actually do it, but instead of just saying, "Nah, we aren't/I'm not comfortable with that," he'll make excuses. "Oh, sorry, I don't have the paperwork in front of me," or "I'll get it to you sometime next week," "Oh you didn't get it? Oops, I must have emailed it to the wrong address..." It's ridiculous. You'd think his parents would see through it. You'd think my husband would just say NO.
THIS IS WHAT BOTHERS ME SO MUCH. My husband's absolute inability to say NO. He doesn't say yes, true, but he didn't say YES to the OW, either, (allegedly) he just didn't say no, so she took it as a yes and wham bam, next thing you know, he's deep in an affair.
I'm not asking him to write his parents off forever and eternally and never speak to them. I'm not asking him to be mean or cruel to them, I'm asking for him to take and hold MY feelings above all other people's - including his parents - and say, "No thanks. Please stop asking, it's uncomfortable for us." But he won't. He doesn't.
So the latest thing was his dad sending out a thing about "unclaimed money". He could have just said, "Hey, there are websites out there that let you see if you have money owed to you," and sent us the websites. But no. Nope. He actually goes on about how he researched for us and found all this unclaimed money and how we need to get on it right away to claim it. My husband has a common name - only ONE of the claims was legitimately my husband's. I brought this to my husband's attention years ago. He said, and I quote, "It's $13. It's not worth the hassle to me. Just drop it."
So, the email and actions of my FIL were pretty upsetting to me, but worse, my husband ignored the email completely, as he is wont to do. I get copies of all of my husband's emails, but I saw that this was actually CC'd to me, so I decided to reply. Rather than just say, "Please don't do this, it's weird and violates our privacy," I essentially said that we knew about it and had for some time and that Huz wasn't interested in worrying about it then, but hey, good luck, whatever.
I know better. I KNOW better. I know to stay the hell out of it. But nope, I knew they'd start bugging ME to get on it if my husband didn't, so I was just trying to jump the gun. Bad, bad mistake. So guess what? I get a snide-oh-gram from his dad inferring that I didn't do anything with my time so why didn't I get on it since my husband is oh-so-busy and what kind of wife was I that I hadn't already handled it if I knew about it.
SERIOUSLY?
So. Yeah. I let my husband know how upset I was. He insisted, "Oh I already handled it, it's FINE." No. He didn't. Did he defend me? Nope. He wrote back that he was just so busy (which always translates to: this isn't a priority to me) and that on his days off we would deal with it. BULL. He will never deal with it but rather than tell them it doesn't matter, he just blows them off and tells them what they want to hear. Huz kept insisting that I was WRONG in my feelings and that I had NO reason to be upset/offended.
OK. Ok. The fact is, I feel like I 100% have a right to my feelings... but... I also admit I shouldn't have butt in. I should have just ignored it and then gone to my husband when they started pestering me to do something about it later down the road. In spite of feeling really hurt and angry, I told my husband I wouldn't say another word about it unless/until one of his parents brought it up again. (Which I just KNEW they would... but ok whatever.) I still was hurting SO badly that he hadn't stood up for me, but in his eyes, there was nothing to stand up for. He did, he said, he told them that "WE WERE BUSY PEOPLE". Um, a) he said HE was busy, not WE, and b) that's not the reason we hadn't dealt with it - he didn't want to, he didn't care, it wasn't important. HE. HIM. And I certainly wasn't going to break my neck over $13 of his money that he clearly didn't care about.
But does the story end there?
Nope. MIL apparently was CC'd into the conversation. She wrote my husband and talked about how I annoy her so much and how I'm so irresponsible for not taking care of the $13. She goes as far as to mention divorce in the email. She also intro'd it with, "About the letter Allora sent me..." I DID NOT SEND HER ANYTHING PRIVATELY. My husband, my FIL and my MIL were all privy to the email. But she made it sound like I went after her privately!
So what does he do? "DID YOU REALLY HAVE TO TAKE MATTERS INTO YOUR OWN HANDS?" he says to me.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
I feel so hurt. So betrayed. So angry. Even after I explained to him that she was referring to the email I sent to EVERYONE and that I hadn't sent any others, HE STILL DOES NOT DEFEND ME. Does he tell her to back off his wife? Does he say, "You know, I'm the one who told her to drop the whole $13 thing six years ago..." does he say, It's not your place to talk about divorce when it comes to my marriage?"
No. No he doesn't.
He has been this way for more than 20 years, so I don't know why I thought I'd be surprised, but I am. I really had thought we had made progress. I thought we were trying to rebuild a better, more fulfilling marriage. But things are just the same. He will never EVER put me above all other people. He will always put his parents first, he will always put other women first, too, right?
I feel so broken. So much like giving up. So much like I have WASTED the last three years of my life.
I guess you have to decide how much you can put up with and go from there.
Most people won't go through that. It's a tall order.
But knowing that, you might research the web and books on dealing with passive-aggressive people. It might offer some solutions or tactics in dealing with this.
2. Your husband has no boundaries. Whatsoever.
3. That would be my situation with my sister in law..... And my husband for YEARS not standing up for me. In the contrary, trying to mold/tame me so that I go along..... UGH. He finally saw what she was doing for what it was. But not until he started to work on himself and do 12 steps program (after DDay). 12 steps program did wonders to his boundaries.
4. I don't think your H is passive-aggressive. I think he has no boundaires and is a people pleaser. And is afraid to say "no" for fear of losing people's support and approval. He also does not feel worthy of saying no. Sadly it covers you too as you are part of him.
5. I was doing exactly the same thing, thinking that it is HIS family so I shouldn't interfere and it is HIS job to be a buffer and stand up for me. But then I realized that it doesn't have to be the case. If they are being rude/mean to me I have the right to stand up for myself. I think you did the right thing writing an email.
You have the right to say stop to harassing and violation of privacy. I would say you even have the right to stand up for your husband. Just work on yourself and learn to use the right words so that you remain classy and can feel good about yourself. Think about your children. You are standing up for your children's mother! If you don't think you are worth it, I am sure you will agree that she is!!!
Always remember - they are the ones in the wrong. Don't let them make you think otherwise.
Hugs!
But that's what passive-aggressive people do. It is a means of avoiding confrontation, but still getting your way. Saying you'll do something or acting like you agree, then not doing it, and then making up excuses for it is typical passage-aggressive behavior. It's because a person can't say no to someone.
Here's a quote:
In psychology
In psychology, passive-aggressive behavior is characterized by a habitual pattern of passive resistance to expected work requirements, opposition, stubbornness, and negativistic attitudes in response to requirements for normal performance levels expected of others. Most frequently it occurs in the workplace where resistance is exhibited by such indirect behaviors as procrastination, forgetfulness, and purposeful inefficiency, especially in reaction to demands by authority figures, but it can also occur in interpersonal contexts.[1]
Another source characterizes passive-aggressive behavior as: "A personality trait marked by a pervasive pattern of negative attitudes and characterised by passive, sometimes obstructionist resistance to complying with expectations in interpersonal or occupational situations. Behaviors: Learned helplessness, procrastination, stubbornness, resentment, sullenness, or deliberate/repeated failure to accomplish requested tasks for which one is (often explicitly) responsible".[2]
Passive-aggressive may also refer to a person who refuses to acknowledge their own aggression (in the sense of "agency"), and who manages that denial by projecting it. This type of person insists on seeing themselves as the blameless victims in all situations.[citation needed]
According to Living with the Passive-Aggressive Man, a self-help book, a passive man does little to get what he wants as it is too much effort to do so, and ranges from the inept "loser" type to the conformist who does anything to be liked, avoids making waves and rarely says what he feels.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passive-aggressive_behavior#In_psychology
LyraAryn : "I guess you have to decide how much you can put up with and go from there. "
This was really the best advice I could have been given. People only treat us the way we let them treat us, right?
Cole: "Sounds like he is exhibiting passive-aggressive behavior to both his parents and you. Most likely how he learned to deal with their controlling behavior. "
When I first read the bit about passive-aggressiveness, I was in despair, because, no, I didn't think my husband would (could?) commit to that kind of change. But who am I to say? Only he could answer to that. I think you're spot on about him being a people pleaser, though. When I read through his email responses to the OW *I* could tell (after 16 years of marraige) that he wasn't saying YES to her, but he was just placating her so she'd leave him alone, but I also know that unless she was specifically looking for that, she took his placation as interest - understandably so. "Maybe" does not mean "no" and my husband just doesn't get that.
musclegirl: We could trade in-law horror stories all day long, I bet. At this point, some of the stories are so ludicrous and unbelievable that even though I lived through them, they're just funny, now. (They definitely weren't at the time!)
Lisa - I don't think much does tie him to his parents except that he doesn't want to be confrontational. They cling to him and he "lets" them rather than telling them to back off.
So... here's my update:
I wrote an email to my husband. I know that sounds impersonal, but I was (clearly) SO upset that I didn't want my emotional reactions to get in the way of my message. When I get emotional, he either shuts down or gets angry. Putting that distance between us means I know he will at least read what I have to say.
I won't go through the whole email I sent, but here's the quote that sums it up best:
"I feel disrespected and I feel that our union was dishonored in this exchange. This is not how I wish to be treated and it is a boundary I am not willing to compromise anymore."
Bottom line, right?
There was clearly more, and I pointed out as specifically as possible where things went wrong, including the part where I should have discussed things before ever responding to the email so I could have better afforded him the opportunity to unite with me on this front, but also the points where his actions (or more importantly, lack of actions?) were hurtful to me. I know he can't control his parents, but he, too, can step up and say, "Hey, that's not OK to me."
He left for three hours yesterday, during which he ended up writing a very thoughtful, very loving email and sent it to both his parents and me. He addressed not only the issues of THIS mess, but of messes past. He took responsibility and he stood his ground, backing me ways he has never done before.
Ultimately, this is what I wanted to hear. This is only a tiny portion of the email he wrote, but it is exactly the balm my soul needed:
"The fact is Allora will always be my number one love. She will always be the one I hold out above all others. I truly feel like we are one person in many ways. The worse thing I can imagine in my life would be having to decide, my parents or wife. My wife will win that one every time."
He did (repeatedly) tell them how much he loved them and always would. He wasn't cruel or unkind, which is exactly what I have been telling him all these years. He doesn't have to be MEAN to them to stand his ground and be KIND to me.
He really did get to the core of the issue, IMO:
"... it's been my way to just let it all slide. To avoid the topic. To appease each of you and at the same time it ends up as me being unfair to each if you... I have allowed it to get to this point by my not standing up for others. By not being clear. By not having a set rigid line and dancing around the issues instead."
Well, I don't think it's "others" he needed to stand up for, but rather himself. But whatever. At least he finally GETS it and he actually did something. As of last night when I went to bed, I felt like the world had been set right. It really was exactly what I needed and wanted to hear.
And then...
His mother responded. And bitch be crazy. Sorry, but seriously. She had the audacity to write and say, "I was just concerned for Allora," ARE YOU KIDDING ME? She flat out said, "She annoys me" to him in her email, and had mentioned divorce. That doesn't sound like concern to me. I am steaming mad about it. But.... I also acknowledge that her response is hers alone and whatever delusions or judgments she holds are hers alone. Huz set the record straight. Whether or not she accepts it is on her.
I just don't think Allora's husband fits in it. From what I know he is missing the aggressive part. He is the definition of passive.
He is not using his silence to manipulate, he doesn't use guit trips or sarcasm, he doesn't give mixed messages, he is not controlling or manipulative, he doesn't pout, play a martyr or a victim.
He is however quiet and timid and silent which in passive person is a result of fear, he changes to suit the situation like chameleon, he does not offer own opinion or express feelings, most of all - he avoids conflict at all cost because he is a people pleaser.
This is all definition of a passive person.
Now his mother is a different story...... And his father seems to be just pure aggressive type.
This is how I see it.
This. So. This. :)
YAY!!!!!!! This is wonderful! Hugs!
Yup - his mother is crazy passive-aggressive. Manipulative b.... Stay away at all cost.
This is for your H: *clap* *clap* *clap* *clap*! Well played!
So glad for your sake and your marriage that he changed course. Here's to hoping he keeps it that way and stays the course.
Sorry, I'm not following you. The passive part is him seeming to agree with what they are saying when he doesn't. The aggressive part is him ignoring what they want him to do, and when confronted about it, makes excuses as to why he didn't do it when he should have just said to them, 'Sorry, I've got better things to do with my time than chase after $13 dollars." But he's probably learned through experience that the later creates more drama than acting like you're going to comply, but don't and come up with a seemingly valid excuse why it didn't get done.
Meanwhile, his mother is the opposite of passive-aggressive. She's confrontational, tells you what she thinks, and overtly manipulates through guilt and domination. That's just pure aggressiveness. Nothing passive about it.
Both types use it to get/do what they want. It's not to say he is doing it intentionally, but I think it is just his learned habit from growing up with such controlling behaviors. Like one site said, in many cases, it is a defensive mechanism employed by those who fear confronting people when they don't agree with them.
But he's taken a step to change that dynamic, no matter what label one puts on it, and that is just way cool. He's doing his own version of the 180 for non-confrontational people, and I hope he learns that in the end, it serves him better than the former dynamic.
I hope someday my H will have enough courage and strength as yours... Please take notes on what works, i will be needing your guidance!