I'm so sorry to hear about your pain! But you've come to the right place. We can relate!

There are a couple of things that alarm me. First, your h sounds very insecure of he's objecting to s make therapist. And I'm pretty sure his anger is a front to cover up his guilt and fear that you will leave him. He's obviously still has his head stuck in his arse and won't own up to his decision to have an A.

Second, now is NOT the time to conceive a child. You cannot bring an innocent child into such an unstable situation. Contrary to popular belief, babies do not bring a family together in a warm fuzzy way. They are black holes of need and completely depend on you for their needs to be met. You will be tired, and that will decrease your already shaky ability to cope with this huge stress. There is the chance that you may not stay with him, especially if he continues to be a jerk. A child will force you to associate with him for the rest of your life. If you don't have a child, you don't have to answer to him at all and you can hit the reset button on your life much more quickly.

I hope as you read through all the posts, you will find wisdom and comfort. Hugs!

thank you.....i just posted this too:
Well. I had a long post earlier, but there is more to add. I had a conversation with my H and he said he felt like I'm not being honest with him. There was something. After a trip I took with him to Hawaii we made a bunch of mutual friends. There was one guy who was very flirtatious with me, and I was back with him as well. There were some texts between us.....nothing persuing anything. Just stupid flirtation. At the time it made me feel better. My H's A ended in May and until our trip to HI he wasn't really committed to making the marriage work. I could NEVER have and A, but I have felt so much guilt for this. He did question me about it several times and I denied it. I think I just didn't want to feed the idea of it. Well, I told him about it tonight. He is at work and probably won't come home until late. He said he cannot trust me at all. I lied about it to his face. He knows there is more to the story and until I am willing to be honest with him and tell him everything he doesn't want to talk. I don't know what to do. I have nothing more to tell him. We have already been having a hard time getting along. Our sex life has been very difficult bc every time I can't help but thinking of him w the OW; now he thinks its bc I did something. I'm venting here bc I know I just have to take it from him. I want to lash back and bring up everything that led me to having those thoughts, but what good is that going to do? I feel like he is going to come home and just say we're done. 8 months of therapy and I feel like we are at square one. WHAT SHOULD I DO?????

First of all, get back on your meds. You are no good to yourself or anyone else if you are having trouble with everyday stuff.

Second, don't even think of trying to conceive right now, your child should not be brought into a world full of uncertainty and strife between its parents! Children need security and love, and with all of the anger and mistrust flying around your home there is no way that would be possible.

Third, you really do need to see a marriage counselor, one who is sensitive and compassionate and won't sugar-coat anything. Seeing IC is good, but you also need to come together on this. I can't stress enough how helpful our MC has been with his straightforward, quiet insight. I do agree with your H on wanting Christian counselor, having someone with the same world view is very important.

Lastly, it sounds like your H is trying to deflect and avoid the spotlight. It seem ludicrous that he would be so mistrustful of you about some flirtatious texting, but yet get angry for you calling him out for having a full-blown affair. He doesn't' really get it, and from your description it doesn't sound like he's ready to try to get it.

Two things I will offer as advice that I learned in MC that might help you:
1. Be mindful of when you ask questions. There are some times when you just want to ask NOW but if it's a time when he is stressed or distracted or tired, etc., you are guaranteed to get a negative reaction. Just like we know how to push people's buttons to make them mad, we can learn to push the buttons that illicit a calm, even happy response. Try and be extra aware of this with him.
2. If you're not sure your Q & A session will end amicably, write your questions down in an email or something he can read and then respond to on his own. It's not so "in your face" and feels less threatening to someone who has trouble opening up.

Hope that is helpful, please keep us updated as to how things are going!

<hugs>

Enca gave a good response on the question things. A variation on that I read in "Not Just Friends." She suggested you have a question jar. You write down your questions on a piece of paper and put them in the jar. He knows those are questions you have about the A. When he is ready, he can pick on out of his own choosing and answer it. Not only does it give him time to process the questions, but he can decide which ones to answer first, second, etc. and when. But either that or emailing him with the disclaimer than when he is ready to answer you are ready to listen

But I would second the need for both of you to go to a good marriage counselor. It will be painful for him, but if he really wants to save the marriage, he'll do it.

And on the flirting, if that is all that happened, then all you can tell him is that was it, you've told him everything. Sounds like he won't believe it. And it may be he is either 1) Wanting it to be true to feel more justified in his behavior, and/or 2) he knows he would have cheated in that situation, so he assumes you would do the same thing (people tend to project their own motives and desires onto others). But if you are telling the truth, what more can you do? If you stick to that, then he'll eventually have to accept it or move on not feeling like he got the whole story. But without any evidence to the contrary, which there wouldn't be any if it didn't happen, he'll never have anything other than suspicions to go on. But, if nothing more happened than flirting, don't let him use this to blameshift on you.

That said, I would say that while the flirting may have been innocent, it was wrong. It was my wife flirting with a guy that led her to her multiple As. She told me about the flirting, and I told her she shouldn't do that. To a guy it isn't a game, it means, "I'm available and a player, do you want to do it?" She either didn't believe me or want to, and his flirting changed to sex chatting and the rest is history, as they say.

But simply put, if you're married, you should never communicate to another guy that you're a player, and that is what flirting says to a guy. Trust me on that one. And lying about it to your H wasn't a good move, but you've come clean on it now. All you can do is wait and hope with time he'll get over that. But none of that should release him from doing all he can to heal you and the marriage.

Hope you can make it work out. This is never an easy ride.

At 8 months I was right square at the "Should I stay or should I go?" with my bag half packed. At that point my H and I had to sit down and REALLY talk and both lay it on the line. "Either we're both all in or all out," I said. I had found this site right about then and desperately needed support. I felt like at 8 months post DDay I should be "all better" and I wasn't. If anything, I was worse.

The key to all this was BOTH of us recommitting 100%. If he hadn't shown concerted effort and hadn't started going out of his way to do what I asked or to at least show obvious consideration for what I was asking, there's no way I could have stayed.

Is there a reason you two have been to individual counseling but not marriage counseling? Initially, it's sort of good to have a therapist see you each individually to get each "side" of the story, but some things can't be worked out except together. I'm not saying counseling is THE only method, but it feels odd that you two go separately but not together.

I agree with what was said about a baby. I understand your heart aches for one. Lordy, I'm WELL beyond wanting more kids, but I so desperately wanted another baby about six or seven months post DDay. I think part of me felt it would be a bonding experience for my H and I, and part of me irrationally wanted someone to love unconditionally. My oldest child is 17 - and my husband had a vasectomy - so yeah, I'm definitely DONE having kids. I understand the impulse, but until you and your H have a stable, mutually exclusive relationship in which you each can take care of yourselves and each other, it sounds like a recipe for disaster.

As for what to do, only you can say. Here's what worked for me:
1) Gather your resources. This includes any support you may need: emotional, physical, financial - whatever. I basically made a "nest" of support around me to help pad the pain and suffering I knew I would be going through and to give me a sense of security.
2) Come up with a recovery plan. There are many out there. I personally have found the Marriage Builders site (and the books/resources there) most useful for our situation, but it's just *a* method, not THE only method. Figure out the steps you need to take to get past this, no matter if your marriage works or not.
3) Let your H know what YOU need from HIM. Don't hesitate or balk at expressing your needs. He may not meet them, but he can't even try if you don't tell him.
4) Whatever you do, DO NOT SETTLE. It'd be really easy to go back to a comfortable discomfort and just let things slide, but if you do, you're selling yourself - and your marriage - short. You deserve to have better than before, not the same.

I hope you'll reconsider going back on meds. Right now is definitely not the time to yank your chemistry around. You may need that extra support in the coming months, especially if you're in the northern hemisphere with winter fully on its way. (My depression is ALWAYS worse in the winter.) Trust me - your well being is way more important than conception right now.

I am so sorry to hear of your pain and suffering. I know what you mean when you describe the reality of just not being able to get through the day, and I am right there with you. I get tired of the roller coaster ride.

My observations are that you need to make couples therapy a requirement, not optional. Yes, you will make progress in IC, but you need couples therapy to process all of these issues together so that you can move forward. Couples therapy will also help you to make a decision on whether or not you want to stay in the marriage, which is what I suspect is the underlying cause for your anxiety and depression. It's that black hole of actually leaving, and then what? What's out there for me being single again, what will I do, etc. I know what that feels like as well. While this may sound harsh (and it's not intended to), I believe that you are actually in a better position to make a decision on the marriage as you don't have kids.

I just don't see how you can heal from the A as a couple, restore trust, offer forgiveness, and deal with the fertility issues without working directly with a skilled therapist. I went through fertility issues early in our marriage, and I know what that pain is like as well. My heart really goes out to you. The good news is that fertility medicine has made enormous leaps and bounds in recent years, and that there are options. However, NOW is NOT the time to have a child, unless you are not afraid of being a single mother and co-parenting with your H in a split custody arrangement (which is no picnic). Having a child has got to be one of the biggest stressors on any marriage; it is truly a marathon event, and babies are so needy and are so much work, and so expensive, particularly the daycare for ages 0-5. But, parenting is a truly rewarding experience. Do you know what the root cause is for your infertility, and how much time you truly have left to conceive? If you have that information, the overall decision making process should be easier.

I think that you also need to go back on the meds. But, work with your docs to figure out how this truly will impact your overall fertility moving forward. The doc that prescribes your meds should know that conceiving at some point in the future is a goal of yours.

Maybe the best route is to focus on just the facts. I know it stinks, but that is the best criteria for making life-altering decisions. In your gut, what do you think honestly are your odds for repairing the marriage, moving forward, and having the family that you desire? What are the underlying issues for your H, why does he fall back on religion to pull him through? Do you share the same goals with respect to religion? If you have kids with your H, and don't agree on that issue, it's going to come up big time with a child.

I wouldn't infer too much into the situation with your therapist not being more responsive to your need to go back into therapy. It's probably just a legal issue, and therapists are very cautious about being sued. If you don't feel comfortable with this therapist, find another one that you are comfortable with. And if your H disagrees with your choice of an individual therapist, tough. That's not his decision to make.

I also agree with the question jar approach. Our couples therapist also brought this up, and it's something that we did as a couple, and it does help to lower the discord.

And, this stuff about your H throwing a flirtation in texts back in your face, I can identify. My H did the same thing with me. He dug for any nuggets he could find that could "compromise" me. This was my H's feeble attempt to put the focus back on me, as to deflect the guilt and shame that he felt and had to process himself. Sounds like your H is trying out the same tactic.

Good luck to you! Keep writing. I do believe that it helps, and there are so many wise individuals on this board, you just cannot go wrong.

Sad,

1- Contact any new MC before seeing them and specifically ask them what their approach is to infidelity.

2- Ask you H why you need to see a Christian therapist. Is it because he wants you to "willfully submit". if so, screw that. See who ever you need.

3- Go over to survivinginfidelity.com and read the healing library. Specifically read about blame shifting. That is what your H is doing by saying, poor poor me, I can't trust you. Read what is required for reconciliation. Read about gaslighting, as he is gaslighting you when you bring up issues. Read about the 180.

Your husband betrayed you and had the affair, but somehow he has taken all the marital power away from you and your an emotional mess right now is because of being simply powerless in your marriage, and made to feel like you are the bad one here.

You are not! You might not have been the perfect wife, but it is not your fault he had an affair. Also, it is not your fault you all are not recovering.

@goingtobeok: great, insightful post. I just checked out survivinginfidelity.com, and boy those are some intense message boards. Do you post there? Wow, I ran out of breath just reading some of the posts over there.

Nope, just read over there. I wish I had read the healing library there earlier on after my d-day. The longer I read over there the more amazed I am at how consistent of a pattern cheaters follow.

I reccomend that you go together to a christian counselor, ours does couple sessions and indiv. sessions, we are now on the couple sessions and although it is always very hard for me, and afterwards I back slide for several days simply because it brings it all back into the light....none of this is easy by any means and there are alot of days that I do not know what I am doing or if it is worth it, but we would not be together at all, or making any forward progress if we were not in couples counseling.

Thank you all for your support. I'm really going to need it. My H is completely shutting down. Hes saying that I have been so high and mighty and on a pedestal and he doesn't believe that I didn't have an affair. He is DONE working on this marriage. I am trying to work and not having much luck. I keep running to the break room and crying. I love him so much, but I feel like this is the beginning of another cheating cycle. I can't imagine not being w him, I just don't know what to do. Please pray for me