I hear you on all accounts.

Not sure what advice if any I can give. So I will only share what I decided to do this year.

I want to have a good time. This is my day. Even if he doesn't think about it today (we have a month to go) I know he would not hate the idea of going to a fancy restaurant. In fact it is THE fancy restaurant. We go there every year for my bday and for our wedding anniversary. They have a fabulous fireplace but in order to be seated at the table next to it you need to make a really early reservation. So this year, I decided I am going to make that reservation.....

And when the time comes, and he wakes up that he needs to do it (mind you it is somewhat easier in our case since it has been a tradition forever, no effort really required) I will tell him that we already have the reservation. I will suck up the dissapointement that I am not getting other things that he talked about but will not make it happen. I know that this is who he is. It has nothing to do with me. It has nothing to do with the affairs. He does things last second (or often after). It applies to everything. This is who he is and I can fight it fruitlessly forever or take it as it is. Do I wish he was more disciplined? Because this is what it comes down to. You betcha. But he is not. And he is not going to become suddenly. This is organic. Just like being late. And just like you I am going to have punches of frustration and dissapointment.

So I will make the best out of him REMEMBERING that we actually have the anniversary. Because he doesn't remember most of the things of that kind. Sigh.

Something unexpectedly came to my mind - what would be HIS idea of a perfect or just good anniversary?

And yes - going out in the morning and coming back without the flowers SUCKS big time.

Hugs.

Sorry you are hurting! I just don't think men really get how much those 'little' things mean to us - especially post D-day. It's not that I want those THINGS - I just want to be cherished and made to feel special. Those little things we ask for is for that part of us - the part that wants to be loved and NEEDS to feel loved. Why don't they get that?

Allora, its not that YOU will never be good enough. HE will never be good enough for you. For months and months, I racked my brain and downed myself for not being this enough or that enough. Then when I saw the OW, SHE was NO beauty. I then looked at my CS. She was HIS choice, HIS slumming to make himself feel better about HIS faults and shortcomings. He needed bar hound to impress. She hung on his every word. There was nothing I could have said or done to keep him from cheating. He told me that. He said I am more educated, prettier and have a better body ( all true) than his GF.
But there was something about her he wanted. Then he dumped her. But he cared enough to treat her very well. I just can't forget that betrayal.
Unfortunately he destroyed something very fragile in me ....my ability to trust him. I don't feel the same about him and never will. That's something I just can't do anything about.
Everyone says we must rebuild and that we can't have the same marriage because that relationship is gone. So true. What I had with him IS gone. He was my love. He was my hero. He's not my hero anymore. Now he's like every other man who has cheated on a woman that he swears that he loves. I don't want to invest emotionally on someone who can do that. nlh1228, you are right. Why don't they get that?

Alora you always have a great way of communicating here and I'm thinking you should print out this post and place it in a card and let him read your state of mind and how hard you work on figuring things out.


I go through different points with my expectations and levels of acceptance. Everything is pretty routine for us but man would I live a shocking change to spice it up. I just don't think my H thinks that way. But I'm not one for that either. I did it 2 years ago for his bday hoping he would surprise me on mine with something but no go.

They are men and generally men need clear directions. Like telling him to seek advice from you BFF. That was good. You may need to ask your BFF to reach out to him on such occassions and say " hey dude, if you need guidance on making alloras day special you can contact me".

I know thes holidays and anniversaries mean a lot but how are things the other 360 days of the year? Do you connect and find a loving solid ground? Or are you always feeling somewhat let down?

Anyway I hope your day ended better and that you resisted any urge to smother him in his slumber. I hope he woke up and did some nice romantic things.

I love your versions of yourself, i go through the same thought process myself.

If your H chose what he wanted to do on your Anniversary what would it be? Would you be willing to allow this year to be more geared to what he would like? Even if it is staying at home & relaxing? Then you can talk about planning something special for your 20th, that maybe geared more towards your preferences.

Just a thought.

Thank you all for your responses.

I tried getting him to pick a movie with me and it was almost as if I had asked him to please remove one of his kidneys himself while I watched. Yeah. Painful. Eventually, I said, "If you figure out dinner, I'll pick a movie," so I reserved one via Redbox (I figured a movie at home was easier than trying to plan a theater movie) and he picked the restaurant.

Dinner was "fine". We got a crappy table (no reservations, and even though it wasn't especially busy, it was just busy enough they just sat us "wherever") at an overpriced restaurant with mediocre food. The conversation was about as mediocre as the food. When the waitress asked us what we wanted to drink, he bumbled his way through trying to order something for us to toast with. It was bad. And disappointing. And embarrassing. Did I mention that he wore a black hooded sweatshirt to dinner? Classy. Super classy.

No flowers. No card. I gave him my gifts mid-afternoon. I had thought maybe if he HAD gotten something in the morning, it'd give him the chance to present his gifts. I also thought that if he hadn't, it'd give him time to make excuses to run out and get a card or something. But no.

Here's the thing: Yes, I know guys tick differently than women. I realize that not all guys get that, as nlh said, we want to feel cherished, or really HOW to make us feel cherished.

I tried (as was suggested) to find out what HE wanted or what his ideal date would be. I even said, "I want you to give me three "dream dates" - no limitations. Don't worry about money or planning or reality - it can be anything from exploring Mars to racing Lamborghini's through central Texas..." He couldn't even come up with a single idea. He sorta just mumbled his way through, "Well. I like playing video games with you and watching TV, or like, going on walks or whatever." Those are all nice. But we do all of those on a pretty much all-the-time basis. I was kind of hoping "special". So, I gave him one of MY dream date ideas, you know, surprise him with tickets to Italy, hop a plane, fly off to Europe with just carry on bags and just buy whatever we need there, blahblah romantic dinner, blahblah wine tasting, blahblah exploring historical sites, blahblah hiking to a remote location and blahblah sexy time...

Big mistake. I think it overwhelmed him.

So. I tried dreaming smaller for him. That didn't work either.

I freaking want to give up. I feel so frustrated. And no, this isn't just an anniversary thing. This is an all the time thing. This is our life. Here's a typical conversation:

"What do you want to do?" I'll ask.

"Whatever you want to do." Uh. Kay.

"I want to do something you'll enjoy."

"I just enjoy being with you," he'll say, while pretty much ignoring me playing his video game.

"OK. Well. Let's go out an do something together."

"OK. Like what?"

"I don't know. I was hoping for your input."

"Oh, anything is fine."

And truly, anything is "fine". He'd probably tag along for whatever dumbass girly thing I dragged him along for. Antiquing? OK. Craft show? Fine. Wine tasting? Whatever. But would he ENJOY it? Would he get into it? Would he invest? Would he express any interest or put any effort in? Nope. He'd show up. Which, yep, that's more than a heck of a lot of guys would do. But what I REALLY want is for him to put forth interest, effort, and enthusiasm. At least for SOME of the stuff we do. If he said, "Let's go golfing!" inwardly, I'd die a little. That sounds SO. FREAKING. BORING. But you know, if he seemed even slightly interested, I'd jump on the opportunity to do something that he might actually put something of himself into.

It's not so much that we only do what I want because that's what I want. We do what I want because he doesn't care. He doesn't voice an opinion. We don't fight. It's not like I say, "Oh, honey, let's watch," (uh, help me out here? I dunno, some girly show...) and he's like "No, the hockey game is on." No. I'll say, "Do you want to watch TV?" and he'll say, "I don't know. Do you?" And if I say, "Sure, what would you like to watch?" he'll say, "I don't know. What do YOU want to watch?" See above conversation. And if I (gasp) catch him doing something HE likes and I try to "butt in", then he drops it. He stops doing it entirely.

Prime example: post affair, our marriage counselor suggested to him that he needed to find some hobbies and interests and he halfass decided he wanted to take up photography again. As in: "I need to spend $8000 on equipment," but he never did pick up a camera or use any equipment he DOES have. At any rate, I'm super into blogging/web design/social media and so I said, "Hey, I could help you set up a photo gallery to keep track of your photos..." Almost immediately, he was like, "Yeah, I don't even really think I want to do photography."

So. Really. He just wanted an excuse to have an exorbitant amount of money to spend without having accountability to where it went. At least that's how it felt. So I told him I think he should try out photography again with the resources he has on hand. To my knowledge, he never did take any pics.

Not even of my 40th birthday.

I don't really anticipate any big 20th anniversary celebration at this rate. If it is, it'll be me planning my heart out and working my butt off to make it happen and him "showing up". That's not the sort of celebration - or marriage - I want. But I don't know how to get him on board with the sort of marriage I DO want.

So on we go. *shrug*

Ick - that type of non involvement is a deal breaker for me.........in friendships or relationships. If I have to make all the decisions and do all the "leading" - I'm just not interested. It's too hard, and as you're finding, too frustrating. I want to deal with adults with opinions and thoughts of their own.

I don't know your full background, but I assume he had an affair, makes me wonder how he had enough motivation to arrange that, and what kind of activities they did, when he can't even choose a movie with you.

Sorry - but if you're determined to stay with him, I'd say you'd better get used to bearing the load here....no idea how you change that behaviour.

Allora, I've had a few thoughts concerning this over the past few days.

1. Maybe the reason he is so passive and such a follower is because that was his way of "fixing" things after Dday? For instance; "I'll just do whatever she seems to want to do or want me to do and that's how we will heal." Sort of a giving up of self-will. This is something I am doing too, but with God, not my H. anyway, I'm wondering if he just took it too far and now he can't reignite his own decision making skills concerning things for you as a couple. Just a thought. Of course, if he has always been like this, that wouldn't explain it.

Next thought is this. If he is so willing to do anything you suggest, how about you suggest some things that could change the situation. I don't mean for a special event. I mean tell him you want to read a book together and then find a book that best seems to address what is bothering you. This could well be a very effective strategy. It is actually the book reading that opened both our eyes so wide and helped us to make so many changes. I could suggest a couple of really good ones, but you might be able to find one that actually addresses the problem more directly.

Coping - I hear what you're saying. Loud and clear. Yeah, he had an affair... the OW came on full force and pushed for the whole thing. He just never said no. Which... yeah, IMO leaves him 100% open to ANOTHER affair because it wasn't like he fell in love with the OW or pursued her - he just never said no. So even if things were blissful in all other ways, there's always THAT hanging over my head. And yeah, you're right. People CAN change, but it doesn't seem like he has any reason to want to, so - either sucking it up and getting used to how he is or moving on are the only sure bets. Hoping/wanting/asking for change feels like a fools errand.

And yet? We both have changed a LOT... in ways I never could have expected. We've both made huge efforts to be better partners and better lovers. The success has been shocking to me. That leaves a lot of room for hope in this area... but hope can be a dangerous thing.

In the end, I want to believe that he's just gun shy - scared - uncertain. I want to believe that it's not that he doesn't care but that he cares so much he's scared to do it wrong so he does nothing. I want to believe that it's a matter of him being uneducated, not disinterested. But just because I want to believe those things doesn't necessarily make them true.

Gabi: To some extent, I think you're sniffing around in the right area. Not necessarily as much as his way of trying to make up for his affair as much as trying to pacify/please me in general.

Cole has actually gently nudged me on this topic before... not even intentionally. I don't even remember the exact conversation thread or what it was in relation to, but essentially, I realized that I automatically turn negative or shoot down my husband's ideas. I'm very clear about telling my husband what he's doing WRONG but not in encouraging him or "rewarding" him when he's doing something RIGHT. I have spent the last 18 months or so working VERY hard to overcome this, though, and I've put concerted effort into being more positive and offering up praise more often.

I guess in short, I have been bossy and negative in the past. I imagine that it's been a lot easier to just say, "Whatever you want, dear," than to be told (directly or indirectly) "that's a bad idea..." It's just frustrating NOW because I feel like I have been putting forth effort to be more receptive and positive and it doesn't seem to be reaping any rewards.

Also, in spite of my husband's career where he is constantly under pressure and has to act "in the moment" on most decisions he makes, he is TERRIBLE about working under pressure in social situations. He freezes up. Deer in headlights.

I've decided to try a different route with him.

Step 1: I'm going to ask him, "What are your thoughts about taking a trip to celebrate our 20th anniversary?" We have almost a year to plan, so it's not exactly high pressure or high stress. This gives him a vague idea to work with (if he wants to) and leaves it wide open for him to express his opinions, concerns, or desires.

Step 2: From there, rather than falling into negative patterns, I'm going to "white board" everything - you know, EVERYTHING is a viable option on the white board. No idea is a bad idea. I tend to immediately dismiss certain ideas, "Oh that's too expensive," or "We could never get a sitter on such short notice," or whatever, rather than problem solving a way into making it happen. If I keep every option viable, maybe he'll be less scared to share.

Step 3: Everything is written down as we speak it so it's visual. This will help my husband since he can see visual progress (or lack thereof). I'll have him literally write down our ideas as we go over them so I will personally have a visual of him "participating". I think that's my biggest thing - how do I measure how much he is investing? He could feel something heart and soul and I might never know it because it's all going on internally. Maybe seeing him "doing" may alleviate some of my own weirdness about his not jumping in more.

Step 4: Well... I haven't figured that part out. :) I guess it'll involve finally picking an idea and going from there. I'm not prepared to give up entirely, but we definitely need a different approach than what we've been taking.