Narcissist Trauma Survival and Recovery Community Group
Support for those anyone who is or has been in a relationship with a narcissist. Together we are much stronger than any of us would be alone. A place for non-judgemental mutial support, advice, and comfort.
First off, I want to say I am very angry in one part of my mind, but I am calm. I received a call from my youngest this afternoon in response to a text I sent her. This is the daughter that I sent to college and she left midway through the semester. It was my understanding, up til today, that she was staying with her boyfriend's parents and working in a vet clinic full-time.
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ....
She called me because I had innocently asked her if she had gotten squared away on when or how she would be paid. She had earlier sent a text saying she wasn't sure if she was coming here for Thanksgiving and having bad brakes. I'd written that I would have some money in a couple of days and would get the pads for her car, as I'd meant to do it earlier, but haven't seen her.
She told me her aunt (father's sister) and uncle live down by the college (in the general vicinity ... which helps answer the lingering question about HOW she chose to go there). Apparently, when she was getting all stressed about the financial aid not being completely finalized, she had an "option" completely unknown to me ... to stay there. I can't even IMAGINE what has transpired ... from beginning to end and I am not going to try. The day I got the right paper from the IRS to complete her financial aid, she had already bolted, despite my trying to encourage her to stick out the semester. I'm not even sure what her indebtedness is as a result ... nothing has shown up here.
She told me that shortly after she arrived, her aunt moved out. She was having an affair and getting a divorce, she told my daughter. So my daughter was left to stay with her non-related uncle ... but meantime, she had been told "Don't say a word about this to your mother." At some point (I was driving and didn't get a clear understanding of all this), her uncle, she tells me, came home and said something to the effect, "Don't know how to tell you this, so I'll just do it. You need to get out of here." She told me she was struggling to get all her possessions to her car and HIS parents were there; they were all talking, laughing and "making fun of" her. She tells me they otherwise ignored her and said, "Good luck" as she prepared to finally leave.
Apparently, at that point she did go to the boyfriend's parent's house to stay, but they want her to get a job and a place to live (all of this helping to explain more of some answers to my own questions). She told me she had a job at the vet clinic, but having to move made it too far to go to with limited gas funds, etc. She is planning to come back here Thursday evening and stay through Sunday. She wants to go back to get a job and stay close to the boyfriend. She tells me her father and grandmother weren't "in on" telling her not to say anything to me, but I highly doubt their ignorance ... and if aunt and uncle were covering those bases, why would they need to?
I think what I am angriest about is that, had they not been carrying on this conspiracy of secrecy, my daughter MIGHT have finished the semester ... I put hundreds of dollars of books, etc on credit cards and thought those would be paid out of financial aid. But seriously, having that option made it much easier, I'm sure, to take "the easy way out". She was always getting frustrated with things in her high school and wanted to be home schooled at various times or switch schools. So these PEOPLE (I use the term VERY loosely) have again sabotaged something for our family, as they have no problem taking my authority and going over my head. And their own children aren't doing too well ... they have their own things they damn well need to be attending to besides screwing over people who really have had more than their share of N poison.
I already had a talk with her (preliminary). I suppose (hope) she has learned an extremely valuable lesson ... maybe more than one ... about these relatives. Without my involvement, so in one sense, "Thank God" for that. I can't be accused of ANYTHING I can think of. I am REALLY disgusted by her father, too. His sister, last time she was up here, refused to acknowledge me until I answered his phone and started a conversation with her, invited her to come bicycling with us. She walked right through the house, acting as if I didn't exist. I said something to him about it and I say, in all seriousness, if one of my relatives came here and pulled that, they wouldn't be welcome again until they learned manners and an apology was issued. His being a complete wimp is actually contributing to this stuff continuing it. And following what I was reading about shadows and what I hate, I realize I am SICK AND TIRED of having to overcompensate ... in being assertive, in being responsible, whatever ... for his irresponsible behavior ... yes, I would LIKE to be able to take life a bit less seriously, laugh more and not always be on the "gung ho" about something or someone.
I'm actually calm, although I am not sure what if anything I will do, say or what have you. When my older daughter got home from work, I told her that her sister would be home Thursday evening. I could tell from her answer they'd spoken and when I asked, she admitted she knew some of what was going on but didn't "think it was her place" to say anything. What is with all the secrecy? Is it me they hate SO MUCH they are willing my daughters could be sacrificed to wolves, drugs .... whatever? I am obviously missing SOMETHING, but I certainly don't want to think that they will be played continually by lying "relatives" who, like they did with me (before) gave me that sweet syrupy voice full of lies, the lying "I love yous" and yet were actively standing at my back with a knife. These "people" are seriously MESSED UP.
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ....
She called me because I had innocently asked her if she had gotten squared away on when or how she would be paid. She had earlier sent a text saying she wasn't sure if she was coming here for Thanksgiving and having bad brakes. I'd written that I would have some money in a couple of days and would get the pads for her car, as I'd meant to do it earlier, but haven't seen her.
She told me her aunt (father's sister) and uncle live down by the college (in the general vicinity ... which helps answer the lingering question about HOW she chose to go there). Apparently, when she was getting all stressed about the financial aid not being completely finalized, she had an "option" completely unknown to me ... to stay there. I can't even IMAGINE what has transpired ... from beginning to end and I am not going to try. The day I got the right paper from the IRS to complete her financial aid, she had already bolted, despite my trying to encourage her to stick out the semester. I'm not even sure what her indebtedness is as a result ... nothing has shown up here.
She told me that shortly after she arrived, her aunt moved out. She was having an affair and getting a divorce, she told my daughter. So my daughter was left to stay with her non-related uncle ... but meantime, she had been told "Don't say a word about this to your mother." At some point (I was driving and didn't get a clear understanding of all this), her uncle, she tells me, came home and said something to the effect, "Don't know how to tell you this, so I'll just do it. You need to get out of here." She told me she was struggling to get all her possessions to her car and HIS parents were there; they were all talking, laughing and "making fun of" her. She tells me they otherwise ignored her and said, "Good luck" as she prepared to finally leave.
Apparently, at that point she did go to the boyfriend's parent's house to stay, but they want her to get a job and a place to live (all of this helping to explain more of some answers to my own questions). She told me she had a job at the vet clinic, but having to move made it too far to go to with limited gas funds, etc. She is planning to come back here Thursday evening and stay through Sunday. She wants to go back to get a job and stay close to the boyfriend. She tells me her father and grandmother weren't "in on" telling her not to say anything to me, but I highly doubt their ignorance ... and if aunt and uncle were covering those bases, why would they need to?
I think what I am angriest about is that, had they not been carrying on this conspiracy of secrecy, my daughter MIGHT have finished the semester ... I put hundreds of dollars of books, etc on credit cards and thought those would be paid out of financial aid. But seriously, having that option made it much easier, I'm sure, to take "the easy way out". She was always getting frustrated with things in her high school and wanted to be home schooled at various times or switch schools. So these PEOPLE (I use the term VERY loosely) have again sabotaged something for our family, as they have no problem taking my authority and going over my head. And their own children aren't doing too well ... they have their own things they damn well need to be attending to besides screwing over people who really have had more than their share of N poison.
I already had a talk with her (preliminary). I suppose (hope) she has learned an extremely valuable lesson ... maybe more than one ... about these relatives. Without my involvement, so in one sense, "Thank God" for that. I can't be accused of ANYTHING I can think of. I am REALLY disgusted by her father, too. His sister, last time she was up here, refused to acknowledge me until I answered his phone and started a conversation with her, invited her to come bicycling with us. She walked right through the house, acting as if I didn't exist. I said something to him about it and I say, in all seriousness, if one of my relatives came here and pulled that, they wouldn't be welcome again until they learned manners and an apology was issued. His being a complete wimp is actually contributing to this stuff continuing it. And following what I was reading about shadows and what I hate, I realize I am SICK AND TIRED of having to overcompensate ... in being assertive, in being responsible, whatever ... for his irresponsible behavior ... yes, I would LIKE to be able to take life a bit less seriously, laugh more and not always be on the "gung ho" about something or someone.
I'm actually calm, although I am not sure what if anything I will do, say or what have you. When my older daughter got home from work, I told her that her sister would be home Thursday evening. I could tell from her answer they'd spoken and when I asked, she admitted she knew some of what was going on but didn't "think it was her place" to say anything. What is with all the secrecy? Is it me they hate SO MUCH they are willing my daughters could be sacrificed to wolves, drugs .... whatever? I am obviously missing SOMETHING, but I certainly don't want to think that they will be played continually by lying "relatives" who, like they did with me (before) gave me that sweet syrupy voice full of lies, the lying "I love yous" and yet were actively standing at my back with a knife. These "people" are seriously MESSED UP.
While you ex-in-laws undoubtedly played a big roll, don't give your younger daughter a pass. If you do, you will be treating her in the same manner that your ex-mom-in-law does with her son/your exNH . . . enabling her to continue her irresponsible behavior. Draw a line in the sand and make your daugher clean up her own mess. Tough love is called for or she will never be responsible. All the other relatives can put out attractive lures to draw her down the wrong path, but ultimately she is the one who choices to walk in that direction. You have to stop being the "hero" who rescues her. Rescuing her is only making her more prone to future bad behavior.
Focus on your own happiness. Sounds crass and hardhearted, but your daughter needs to wake up and see the REAL world. If you keep rescueing her, she never will. My words are meant in kindness, friend. Know that they are said by someone who has walked a similiar path with my own daughter as she went downhill during her terminal illness. I allowed her physical issues to act as an excuse for some of her bad decisions. The heartbreak is still there. Hugs.
that they are still able to contaminate your life and the life of your daughters.
From my experience, they will always look to stir up drama and strife, just to sit back
and laugh and point fingers. This can never be underestimated on your part. In a way,
this is a good thing that this has happened as now your daughter has had a real look
at how uncaring and vicious they really are. I mean, come on, what kind of relatives
would do that to one of their own who is trying to make it through college?? Vile.
That said, I agree with Quepasa, this is the time for tough love. You don't have the funds
to keep paying her college bills if she doesn't treat both you and her education with due
respect. I'm not sure how you should handle this,, but I'd think twice about being too soft
of a landing pad for her, else she brushes this event off and runs back into their
dysfunctional arms again.
My in-laws do this creepy kind of "don't tell mom" stuff all the time and are extremely
rude and mind gamey to me and about me in front of my son. They reward him with
all the "love" and attention he so badly craved from them and didn't receive when he
was young. They treated him like dirt when he was young because he couldn't
participate in their games, now they fawn over him and draw him in. I just found out
that his "aunt" (doesn't deserve the title) is contacting him all the time on face book--
any opportunity to insinuate herself into his life--although her main "contribution"
has been to spread malicious lies about me to the extended family.
They will always look for any way to worm into the kids lives to manipulate them for
their own sick brand of "fun". I think that the fact their own kids aren't doing well is
probably part of the driving force behind this. Either they want to be the heros and
"rescue" your kids from your ever changing (e.g. made up) faults or they want to set
them up to fail so they can point out what a wretched mother you are. Either way
your child is the real loser.
Know that you are not alone in this frustrating nightmare and that you are in my thoughts
and prayers that you will receive the right wisdom on how to proceed. To strike the
right balance between understanding for your daughter and letting her learn some hard
lessons about life and how she should treat others especially those who have sacrificed
for her and are helping her make a success out of her life.
Peace to you Dadda, please stay strong. Message me anytime you want. I can so relate
to your situation. I might not be able to give you any direct illumination (I'm struggling as
well as how to figure out the middle ground) but I will be happy to listen to you vent and
problem solve this situation. I may very well be dealing with this situation one day myself.
Sending you gigantic HUGS ((((((( ))))))) Hang in there.
I think I am just so angry because these people have done a pretty damn good job of tearing my life apart in places, but only because they are so willing to lie, cheat and steal to do so. And my own observation, that destruction is something than ANYONE can accomplish, children and animals too. But to be constructive, restorative, creative takes effort, it takes concentration and a whole lot else ... it takes a "someone" ... they "get by" more or less by "showing up"; NOTHING MORE. I am not putting myself on a pedestal, but I am sick of being the 98 pound weakling on the beach and I do wish I could think of a way to blow them out of our lives once and for all. And yes, I have thought through some of the situations I've been in BECAUSE OF them and I realize that, compared with them, I have some flying colors backing me.
I was reading some stuff about M Scott Peck's views last night after reading EyesOpened post; a quote from the site I was on (and from his book, People of the Lie, which covers narcissism pretty well, in my opinion):
"There really are people and institutions made up of people, who respond with hatred in the presence of goodness and would destroy the good insofar as it is in their power to do so. They do this not with conscious malice but blindly, lacking awareness of their own evil -- indeed, seeking to avoid any such awareness. As has been described of the devil in religious literature, they hate the light and instinctively will do anything to avoid it, including attempting to extinguish it. They will destroy the light in their own children and in all other beings subject to their power.
Evil people hate the light because it reveals themselves to themselves. They hate goodness because it reveals their badness; they hate love because it reveals their laziness. They will destroy the light, the goodness, the love in order to avoid the pain of such self-awareness. My second conclusion, then, is that evil is laziness carried to its ultimate, extraordinary extreme. As I have defined it, love is the antithesis of laziness. Ordinary laziness is a passive failure to love. Some ordinarily lazy people may not lift a finger to extend themselves unless they are compelled to do so. Their being is a manifestation of nonlove; still, they are not evil.
Truly evil people, on the other hand, actively rather than passively avoid extending themselves. They will take any action in their power to protect their own laziness, to preserve the integrity of their sick self. Rather than nurturing others, they will actually destroy others in this cause. If necessary, they will even kill to escape the pain of their own spiritual growth. As the integrity of their sick self is threatened by the spiritual health of those around them, they will seek by all manner of means to crush and demolish the spiritual health that may exist near them.
I define evil, then, as the exercise of political power -- that is, the imposition of one’s will upon others by overt or covert coercion -- in order to avoid extending one’s self for the purpose of nurturing spiritual growth. Ordinary laziness is nonlove; evil is antilove."
I won't pretend that I am "good" by a longshot, but I try to work on being better and more on that side of the ledger. I intentionally only had two children because I wanted to give them a good upbringing and afford to raise them. I intentionally planned to go to school and work full-time for a year while they were small so I'd have some career flexibility as well as financial and career mobility; also to have a career about more than "making money". I intentionally tried to help (not do it all, but help) get our children settled into their adult lives - and this IS the responsibility of BOTH me and him - and out of the direct influence of either me or him ... BECAUSE I don't see myself as perfect and I think they need the chance to work things through their own minds and hearts, use their own free will to decide, not be manipulated or pressured or emotionally, financially or otherwise blackmailed.
And you are both right ... I'm not in the financial position to be "the Hero" and yesterday and for the past few days to week, I am hating being pushed into the position of being forced anywhere by anyone. I have plenty I need to do for myself and MIL and ex have basically lived off others - their whole lives. OK, my ex did have a roommate for a while. But when I was our daughters' ages, I was completely and totally supporting myself.
I think for now, I am going to continue talking and communicating. I am being upfront with my daughters on the finances, both that mine are tight and that, as they are "adults" it would not be helpful for me to bail them out. It will just be sort of hard, as there are times when it is appropriate to "help" or defray an expense or whatever, even with an adult child, so I guess staying calm and trying to think logically ... like buying the brake pads and installing I wanted to do before she took off for college, so think I will still do that; I already told her she should "save her money" for what I can't help her with. I have a fantastic budget sheet that I can go over with her (or at least attempt); it includes things like magazine subscriptions and insurance as a monthly expense, so before she leaves hopefully a realistic view of what she is up against. I started it way back when and have just sort of added things as they become apparent. I understand what she "wants" but hoping to get her (and him) thinking about the big picture.
And also just trying to realize my biggest anxiety is "the larger hidden agenda". But in a way, whatever it is keeps getting "shot down" and not with any intervention on my part, really or legally, only through rightfully protecting myself. So it would seem God is working on our behalf, but probably totally differently than I would work it out, so it makes me anxious "not knowing" what is going on ...
by his book "People of the Lie". He has such great insight into the mind of a narc,
and how they differ from the rest of humanity.
I'm curious, are you thinking about having your daughter save up to pay part or
most of her way for the next semester? I'm just wondering how it would work if
you tied your $ contribution to school performance? Just a thought. Also, i'm
wondering if there is a college closer to you or at least farther away from your
toxic in-laws that you could suggest. Of course, I'd never let on that that was
your agenda, I'd just point out the great features of the college, or point out the
savings she'd have by staying local.
As far as their hidden agenda. From my experience, it really isn't worth worrying
about, as the narcky in-laws are often several nasty steps ahead. You need to
do what you think is right, based on you own principles, and if they choose to
twist that, they choose to twist that. You can guesstimate what they're up to
and take appropriate steps, but, in my experience anyway, you can never get
the full picture unless you have inside information--and cultish families don't
usually let that happen.
I have never been able to see my in-laws sick patterns completely. I keep
track of their tendencies, such as using information to create negative gossip,
so I don't reveal my plans and personal information anymore. But when it
comes to the larger picture, I still get side swiped because I think a lot of what
they do is just opportunistic, if the right person comes along to dupe and draw
into their web they do, if not they just try something else. So I think their "plans"
are always changing.
Honestly, I can't believe that this action they've taken towards your daughter
won't wake her up somewhat. I hope and pray it does, and that she starts
to see that, while you're not perfect (who is?), you truly have her best
interests in mind, and that you do not stoop to playing damaging mind
games with her, your ex, or your in-laws.
Hang in there Dadda, keep your head up, know you're the better person
here and don't let their warped machinations throw you off your course.
Sending you great big hugs and best wishes (((((( ))))))) Betty.
I think fixing the break pads is an excellent idea. You will rest better knowing she is safe while driving.
As for college . . . I will say that, as a former college teacher, . . . the students who worked parttime and paid their own way were far more interested in actually LEARNING and not so interested in partying. You have helped her with school in the past . . . and she did not appreciate it. I would not spend another penny on that until she has gotten at least one or two semisters under her belt that she paid for alone. She will either get a full time job and job to school parttime; get a parttime job and go to school full time; get Grandma or Dad to bail her out, or just drop out. But she will learn a life lesson that is far more important than anything that she can learn in school. Reward good behavior; do not enable or reward bad behavior.
Just my opinion.
Know that I trully care for you . . . and for your daughter. Hugs, my friend.
I worked my way through school and it was hard. but graduated with a 3.8 average. I took ~18 credits/semester and worked 30 hrs/wk. on average. I also had time for a social life, but I was young then and sleep was always optional. If she wants it she will find a way. If she doesn't it is a waste of her time and your money. My cousin is in his mid 30's and finally decided on going back to school and doing well. How many times did he get bailed out before cut loose? To many..