Plus, I'm also frustrated that I'm having a hard time taking my own
advice about self care. I'm feeling so immobilized that it's hard to
do the basics. I think this is both because he's escalating and because
I'm realizing belatedly just how often my son is joining in. I'm afraid I've
discovered that I'm being gaslighted almost constantly by both of them.
It's basically the only way DS has a chance to bond with his Ndad.
The only time Nh allows any emotional connection is when the two of
them are engaging in tag team gas lighting. It's just breaking
my heart.

You really need to make plans to get out of there betty. This situation is going to continue to deteriorate until there will be nothing left of you. Can you get out temporarily and stay with a friend for a few days to make a plan? Hugs! We are there for you.

betty, I understand and empathize with you. The pain can almost paralyze us! I've been having a hard time finding a job, and it has me feeling worthless and depressed - even more than usual. Because of my health issues, I am limited to doing only clerical or secretarial work. Very frustrating when the pickens are so slim.

My youngest son still lives at home, and he made a very disrespectful comment last week about "Dad is the one supporting this house." Implying I was not pulling my weight. I do the bookkeeping for our company, but it seems my son and NH forget about that little detail. Plus, we live on a small acreage next to my family farm, and there is always work to be done, taking care of the animals, mowing and yardwork, etc.

All housework, minor house repairs, and laundry is taken care of by me, too. Yet they seem to forget all I actually do. Instead, they point out I am not bringing in extra income for the household. I was so pizzed at my son when he made his caddy remark. I unloaded on him, and he apologized later. But the damage is already done.

Lack of respect and appreciation for our efforts and hard work creates negativity on so many levels. I took a long hike in the woods, crying my eyes out, praying my heart, and trying to grasp a tiny bit of self confidence. I don't know why life is so stinking hard.

Just know I feel your pain and I'm sending lots of prayers. Hang in there.

Betty, I've become a lot less efficient, organized and able as the chronic and sometimes severe stress of a 2 year divorce and before that, several months of his rages and mood swings (which were new) and I thought related to the foot wound and BEFORE THAT, the heart attack .... stress is wearing and tiring and can disable and kill, at times. So feeling like you are and noticing changes, I'd say the red flags are out and calling for some relief.

Plus, I think in my case, I am suffering from the "what's the point?" syndrome. The dogs will pee on the carpet right after I've scrubbed it (or a couple days, but what's the difference?). All that work and research to pay down our bills ... what's the point of clipping a few coupons for $1.50 saved when a rampaging lunatic can force thousands in debt on you and not much choice about participating, other than the new "choices" you get by not doing so. Don't know if you have that going on too, but I THINK it actually the more dangerous ... Dr. Victor Frankl found that concentration camp prisoners were more likely to survive if they have a purpose, something TO live for. When I am saying "what's the difference" or "it doesn't matter" and have to force myself, that's when I NEED to find something that DOES matter to me. Forget the soiled carpets or don't clean them as often; I don't plan to have 5 animals at once in future (and wouldn't now, by choice and I think good sense). Let clean carpets be a future purpose and find things that can't be messed up by others. For me right now, that's learning. I was talking with the Victim's Advocate today and she was mentioning future career directions and a nurse she knew of who does med reviews for interactions. I started to talk about some subject related to rehabilitating offenders that I have some passion for and I caught myself ... I said, I sound like I'm going into "in-service mode". That sort of brightened my day, because I CAN picture myself giving an enthusiastic talk to an interested (hopefully) audience, or at least one required to master the material to get where they need to be and maybe get a few good "thinking points" in. Told her I'd save it but maybe become a college professor. Smiling as I think about it all ... who knows exactly where I'll end up, but now I even have an additional purpose to my learning!

The "stress" part ... you probably know things about your best limits, or are learning them. I have PTSD too and have found that if home (or some other major component of) life a disaster, forget the rest, at least as far as my being as efficient, organized and productive as I'd like. I hate it ... concentration off, indecision or really procrastinating, even past the point of sense. It makes me feel somewhat a failure, but I've learned to pull back to a level I can tolerate and eventually, I've found that I build more stamina and ability to cope with additional stressors with less "crazy head trips" as I call them. There was a time I couldn't even stand to be around people, listening to them, looking at them, a while later I was substituting in multiple schools every week, designing and giving a training program to grocery store employees on rotating bread correctly. But I also know that when I go through another major stress, it's still likely I'll regress, just not as far. Still, I seem to be a LOT tougher than I was in 98, when this started. I could GET just about any job I applied for, take tests for them and interview, etc ... no problem. But I could never go back and actually work at the job or at least sustain without freaking out in a panic attack and leaving, never to return (though I'd usually call them to let them know). And I just figured what that was, recently. It was while I was separated for the first time from my husband and he had our children. Starting a new job, especially far away, was a sure sign of starting a new and separate life. THAT was driving the panic. Somehow, though, I think it would have taken a very skilled therapist to figure that one out ... nobody was even catching onto the fact that I had the panic attacks. So I think about stuff like that and don't concentrate on it ... it seems eventually the answer comes and informs you more about yourself.

Spiritsprout: Hi! I feel your pain too ... problem is you maybe are making it all look "effortless"? I hear from my daughters at times that I "don't work" (they don't even count my part time work or that I do toward small business, guess it's not glam enough).

I sometimes would do things like pick up everyone else's stuff and hold it hostage (til they didn't have any stuff left, hardly). Then they could get it back in exchange for some HELP with a chore (preferably something complex enough they can't whiz through easily). Minor repairs ... that would be a good one ... as I start many a "minor" repair and find myself stymied days later at times. Or you could go on strike or partial strike, letting everyone know you will be looking for work that not only gets paid for, but appreciated. Only do your laundry, only cook for yourself. I guess you might have to think it through to apply it; I suppose there would be some families where there would be 4 or 5 separate meals cooked and nobody to wash the dishes or load the washer.

As you said, there may be some damage that is done when tempers flare, but I've found that sometimes, talking later IS a really good chance to communicate, especially if there is some reflection. You don't say how old your son is, but again, there are some things you can do to help him appreciate the FACT that you don't have a magic wand that does the WORK for you. He could have an assignment to call around and find out what it costs to have a animal person or farmhand drop by daily and care for the animals ... a maid or someone who does the cleaning ... and a handyman to do some projects that you might otherwise do or help with. Just one example.

NH said I didn't "contribute" yet I see he paid H & R Block to prepare his taxes this year (which he CAN'T do and I have always done ... no charge. And merely one example.) $177.00. I would have been happy to have been appreciated, but even half that in "tip" would be nice, too!

Snowy, you are right, I feel like I'm disappearing here. I called a lawyer today-
we meet on Thursday. I had a long talk with my son, this will be a traumatic
move for both of us, as we'll have to relinquish our dogs, and he'll lose out on
a lot of extracurricular stuff (dear Nh won't cover). I want to put the dogs up
for adoption now so I won't have to take them to the pound. It breaks my heart.

spiritsprout, I hear a lot of "you don't do anything" as well. Nh has called me
a parasite and useless, which really hurts. Since I do have a problem
getting things done sometimes, I bought in to his disparaging remarks
which cut me to the quick, just like my narcissistic mom. I guess I married my
mother, LOL

I hate hate hate how Nh and his Nfamily have totally
ignored my son while he grew up (he's 14 now) and then swooped in
to shower him with affection as soon as he could be groomed for N supply.
They are usually cold people but light up either when he's performing
(he's musical and very entertaining) or when he's nasty to me. Then
they're very loving--ugh. They wouldn't even hold him or play with him
as a baby, they literally spent 5 minutes when we arrived and 5 minutes
when we left and we only saw them 2 times a year. He's also their only
grandkid, so all the sibs are jealous of me and join in the slander fests
which occur regularly. Honestly I'm afraid when I leave that I'll never
see my son again.

I've been crying like crazy too, and though I feel horrible, I think it's
releasing this toxic hope and blindness to all this constant undermining
abuse and crazy making (which is really abuse too). I've ignored how
hurtful all this "abuse light" is. You know, I watched that film "I, Psycho-
path", with Sam Vankin, and It's interesting how the filmmaker started
to show signs of PTSD after interacting with Sam for a short while.
Sam is very much like my Nh, it is spooky. Anyway, it is reassuring
that even a smart guy knowing the deal going in could get blindsided
by the narcissistic abuse and start to unravel.

Dadda, thank you for the reassurance that severe stress can and will
cause a lowering in functioning (isn't that one reason why they abuse
us to begin with? To stress us out and lower our ability to function?)
Sam Vankin talks about this in the documentary, how he knows that
bullying will wreck havoc on the person's nervous system and that
the effects will last for hours--Whoa, what if my Nh knows this as well,
either intuitively or outright? These guys are so toxic, I have totally
underestimated my ability to cope with a constant influx of toxic
sludge in my life. Why should I keep doing this?

But I do think that,
as well as the realization that the almost constant low level abuse
is affecting me badly, the reality of going out on my own, with little
to nothing and no job, is scaring the living you know what out of me.
That is probably part of the deer in headlights feeling as well. I've
been told all my life that I'm basically worthless and dysfunctional
and I've also been living with or in a close relationship with narcissists
my entire life. So I have really absorbed that idea that I'm not able to
perform. And that has played out in my life as sometimes I can do
things easily and other times I feel lobotomized.

As for taking care of the house, my solution has been to pare down
all our belongings so that the house is pretty spartan. And hey if
they are giving me a hard time about cleaning, I just beg off and let
them fend for themselves sometimes--all the food is there to make
something with. I often feel so upset I can't eat anyway.

THANK YOU all so much for your replies, it gives me hope and
reassurance to have a safe place to come and to hear from people
who have been there and "get it". Your kind words mean the world
to me. Thank you again for your encouragement.

I wanted to say that yes ptsd can make you helpless and l=hopeless. I am so not the same person I was even 6 months ago. I talked with a woman today who is out of her N relationship 5 yrs. She still works through periods of inneficience and self doubt.

All you can do is one day at a time, and get away from him..

livelifenow, thank you for the affirmation that it does take time
and that the helplessness is often part of it.
I think the thing that really freaks me out is the fact that I was broken
when I married this black hole of a human being. And although I'm
much wiser, I've pretty much always fit the "dysfunctional" bill.

In retrospect though, I can see that whenever I started to accomplish
anything, I would be sabotaged relentlessly. My Nmom was the
same way. I was a very good student but the atmosphere at home
was such a constant toxic drama, i ended up giving up everything
and retreating to my room and barely surviving. It scares me how
much the toxic messages have become a part of my psyche.

Betty,

There are no words to express the compassion and concern I feel for you at this moment. I can only say that we are all here for you. How odd, that we both (you and I) have appts on Thurs. with divorce lawyers. NH and I are going together. You have the added pain of the issues with your son which makes your burden far worse than mine. I hope and have to believe that as he matures he will come back to you with even more love and respect. We can only try to focus forward. The storm clouds are circling and there will be trauma, lonliness, fear, pain, and likely poverty, but the sun will shine again for both of us. Courage. And, please vent (I know I will) as we so need support in this venture into a new tomorrow. Hugs coming your way. . . .

Thank you for the kind words Que.

I'm afraid that I can't hack it, that my Nh is right. I've had years of
trouble at work, tons of illness and panic attacks. I didn't
realize that I was suffering from severe PTSD and that I was almost
constantly subjected to mind games and then later pretty intense
verbal abuse and physical intimidation. I kept telling myself that
I should try harder and then I'd get really sick or end up feeling so
panicked that I felt like I was having a heart attack.

I sorted out the obvious verbal abuse ages ago and I threatened
calling the cops if he continued with the threatened physical
violence, but the daily constant mind games I ignored and I think
those were chipping away at my coping abilities as well. So
basically I do really well and then I feel overwhelmed I freeze up.

I think that the other problem I've had is that I've been in relationships
with narcissists my entire life (friends/lovers/bosses) Most of my jobs
have been with narcissists as well. Mmm, maybe it's no wonder that
I'm shell shocked. I've always been spending myself to pleasing the
narcissists that have always populated my life.

It hasn't been until the last two or three years that I've been vigilant on
avoiding narcissists. That has helped more then anything. And also
getting support (this board is a life saver Quepasa--you did a great thing
taking the plunge and starting this). I use to think that needing support
was "weak", that I just needed to 'suck it up" more. I know that it's not
unreasonable to need support--it's normal.

Betty,

I have said it before but it is So worht repeating . . . "We are all stronger together than any of us would ever be separately." Courage, friend.

Thank you everyone for your kind responses. I'm scared as hell, but i've made
some inquiries about another place to live (I can't afford taking over the mortgage).
I see the lawyer tomorrow, and I've started looking at places for the dogs (that's
the hardest in a way). I don't know what's coming next, but I'm going to trust that
the same creative force that made such a beautiful earth for us, has good in
store for me as well.

Betty, courage isn't the absence of fear ... just acting (positively) despite fear. I will stand up, gladly alongside someone acting on principle despite their fear rather than siding with cowards who only appear "powerful' and composed. Im praying those you run into are like that (having wisdom and discernment) and help you as you go through this. Knowing that people care or are fair, at least, really helps in settling down the anxieties. Hugs!

Thanks Dadda, I feel so much anxiety about how things will work out.
But I know that there is only so much that I can control. I need to focus
on that, and let the rest work out as it may.

I just went to check out a place that seemed ideal: 2 bedrooms, very low
rent in exchange for care taking, but the woman had all the red flags of
a narcissist--the most glaring is that she spoke very condescendingly to
her current care taker who scuttled around looking defeated. Sheesh.

I will keep looking and keep working on myself. I think the more I accept
myself, and give love to myself, I'll attract the kind of people I need. I also
just heard about this book Women Who Love Too Much, I think I need to
read it. I have a feeling that I'm going to be immobilized until I can give
myself the love that I'm craving so much.

((( )))

So glad, Betty, that you saw those redflags. You dodged a bullet. I hope you find a suitable, affordable place. Keep us posted on your progress. Hugs.