From this article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marianne-kuzujanakis/gifted-children_b_2948258.html

Contrary to common stereotypes, giftedness is not synonymous with high academic achievement. The gifted student archetype, while expected to be a mature classroom leader, does not fit all gifted students. Some are the class clowns, the lonely awkward child in the back row, the troublemaker. Special needs classrooms are where a number of gifted children end up -- their giftedness left unsupported.

Wasting much of their day in unsuitable classrooms, gifted kids may behave in unacceptable ways. Despite giftedness being akin to a special need, funding for it is scarce and the needs of gifted minority and poor are repeatedly and shamefully overlooked. Visual-spatial learners whose learning methods conflict with typical classrooms are also misunderstood. While classrooms need to be academically challenging, for many that also requires sensitivity to cultural, racial and linguistic diversity. Learning strengths, too. Such solutions are not always generally available.

Dr. William H. Smith, former dean of the Karl Menninger School of Psychiatry and Mental Health Sciences, stated, "Giftedness can be confused with some psychiatric disorders, obscure other disorders, and it often needs to be included in treatment planning."

... The term gifted tends to evoke elitism, and serious attention is rarely paid to gifted children who are other than high achieving.

A prevalent belief persists that one cannot both be gifted yet struggling in school. Many parents also discount giftedness when their children's abilities are uneven or counteracted by other difficulties. Yet some gifted children who have unrecognized learning disorders may initially excel in school, until they hit a limit where their compensatory skills unravel.


... Highly gifted children are a particular diagnostic challenge. They seem to be wired differently and have developmental trajectories that differ from the norm. Many gifted kids experience the world with heightened and vivid intensities and sensitivities that may be a big plus (allowing them to become creative artists, scientists, inventors, and humanitarians) but also can be a big minus (subjecting them to sometimes overwhelming emotions and worrisome and unacceptable behaviors)...

... Yet sometimes being gifted effectively hides learning and mental health conditions. Giftedness may over-compensate for weaknesses, masking the weakness and sometimes the giftedness. Despite the seriousness of misdiagnosis, physicians are exposed to an alarmingly few articles in the pediatric medical literature about the complexities of giftedness, while many parents also hesitate in discussing giftedness with their doctors, some with the belief that giftedness plays no role in medical health.

Dr. James T. Webb, clinical psychologist, author, and founder of SENG (Supporting the Emotional Needs of the Gifted), stated, "Unfortunately, extremely few psychologists, psychiatrists, pediatricians, or other health care professionals receive any training about characteristics of gifted children and adults, particularly behaviors of bright, creative persons that can sometimes resemble or conceal disorders."

So, while some gifted kids are erroneously labeled and medicated for mental health disorders they do not have, others are unrecognized for learning or mental disorders they do have.

Normal giftedness can be easily confused with a diagnosable mental disorder. Gifted kids may talk a lot, have high levels of energy, and be impulsive or inattentive or distractible in some settings -- similar to symptoms of ADHD. It's not unusual for gifted kids to struggle socially, have meltdowns over minor issues, or have unusual all-consuming interests -- all pointing to an inappropriate diagnosis of autism.

What results is that the gifted frequently feel alone and alien in a world that doesn't fully understand them ...

...Giftedness too is not always seen as a socially positive and valued trait. Many gifted kids are bullied, others underachieve to hide their abilities, and some experience anxiety and depression with increased risk for self-harm.[2] As many as 20 percent may drop out of school.[3] The social and emotional needs of many gifted children are ignored. Many seek homeschool and early college as more suitable alternatives, though some bypass higher education altogether, having become disillusioned with their earlier experiences, or unable to cope if untreated for unrecognized learning or mental health issues ...

My guess, too, is that intelligent people often have a more highly developed sense of morality and justice; that it is a torment to see the chasm between "theory" and "what is" ... and possibly, because of intelligence and other personality factors that are more developed (than average) there is a stronger sense of one's own worth and that not only makes it harder to oppress such people (at least, with their consent, once they identify it) but which raises the hackles of the "experts" or "authorities" come into contact with, as for example, I respect all people, including authority/expertise, initially ... but after that, it must be "earned".

I have no idea FOR SURE if I am on target regarding some of the likely source of some of my frustration ... I tend to think others "think" as I do, or at least comprehend.

But even so, what can one do about it? If I am totally (now) aware of major injustices, how AM I supposed to "forget about it" etc? I can't turn off my brain and I can't figure out how ... or why ... I am just supposed to "forget about it".

believe me, as someone who was also tested and deemed "gifted" and "above average intelligence" i can't help but wonder nowadays how stupid i was to have fallen for the N twice...then again, when emotions and insecurities come to play, rationality goes out the window doesn't it.
it's agreed that narcissists are intelligent creatures, too, i know that's what i fell for mine, with those charismatic/manipulative words, he could've ended up as a politician at least...what a WASTE!

Actually, Fairytale, I doubt it was stupid. I don't "know" about you, but I have a tendency, at least, to normally view things in a positive light, and that includes people. I doubt I would be as frustrated as I am ... I think one thing I read said "have a tendency to hold high expectations of oneself and others". Plus, development isn't always even; if you are smart, then people seem to have a tendency to think that means "all-around". I was reading that sometimes strengths could compensate for, but sometimes also obscure, our weaknesses ....

and if you are, I surely am. But I don't think I am, nor you either. Just that there are different perceptions and so on, because of it. I've often been shaking in my shoes, the only person in the room to stand up and point out "the obvious". But is it? How the heck do I know? Maybe I am the only one "getting something". Does it make me "better"? No, I've never thought that. Sometimes, I wish I could be happy about the birth of someone's child/grandchild, without all the political and other problems coming into my mind ...

I never even thought that maybe other people and my thoughts are planes apart, sometimes. I just happened onto these sites and started reading that many (most?) doctors, therapists and so on get no training in gifted/high intelligence and things like intensity, passion and really strong emotions (and "eccentric" though not crazy ideas) get misdiagnosed ... leading to an ever increasing spiral of mistakes (which could become a comedy of errors and helpful feedback, if and when it stops!!). I know it helps explain "problems" with "authority figures" and so on ... because I don't view experts or authorities as "better" than me; just more highly educated in certain areas ... and I expect them to have the appropriate empathy and respect toward the people they serve/are accountable to.

I think difference too, because exNH is also intelligent, is our early social development. It took me a LONG time to realize that he, and his relatives (several, at least) had treated me with outright cruelty, which I had never, at least on an on-going basis, been subjected to before. I trusted BECAUSE I was able to master trust in early childhood .. because I could trust my parents, etc ... even if they weren't perfect, they were "good enough" parents. From what I saw of his, at least his mother ... well, what grandmother tells the grandkids "mommy is going to kill you" to help her son screw them all over (and himself, too)? It's diabolical, in my opinion and I'm sure that is what was served up to her own offspring! What person tells you they love you, as she did me, over and over ... doing nice things here and there, then cuts you off all of a sudden and permanently, when you don't follow "the script" anymore?

I also don't think it shows stupidity to confirm for yourself the facts ... and if that involves "going back" or keeping up some contact until we KNOW, I do know MOST of what we "know" is what is told to us or what we read, etc. There's a lot of "science" I totally disbelieve and there is a lot I take on faith, having no way to check ... but the things I KNOW, ain't nobody going to talk me out of those! I know I got better away from him and he knows it too ... ergo, the campaign to destroy rather than finalize the divorce.

I feel like kicking my own butt, sometimes, too because I think "I should have known better" or "how could I be so dumb?" But that is WRONG, because it is taking responsibility for other's shortcomings and choices. The N could become what they pretend to be, if they were willing to take some risks and do some work ... why should we be faulted for the fact they are not and WILL NOT make better decisions, preferring the "short term reward" and "easy way"? If they showed us what they were going to later, I doubt ANY of us would have gone anywhere near them! I told him, "I can be a bitch" on our first, maybe second date. Not often, but it did happen ... I take responsibility for my temper and words ... and I have fought with myself and improved through the years. In fact, I am still pretty impressed with myself, the way I handled things this second time around ... I wasn't aware of the personality disorder stuff until a bit later ... actually, not until shortly before I found this site! I was posting on other sites and THAT made me feel stupid, because hardly anyone would respond to what really sounded crazy (his actions), even to me. Had I been super insecure or paranoid, I probably would have learned faster ... but would I have been able to handle it better?

I was insecure, though, in particular first time around, and easily broken. As I continue to learn more about myself and how it affects how I am in the world, though, I hope others will share experiences, too so I can learn from them and hopefully, it will also start some food for thought, because there are a lot of (obviously) intelligent people on here ... but many of us forget that sort of thing, discount it or it gets buried in all the emotional stresses and "experts" who are sometimes put in charge of our lives for a time, through divorce or therapy or whatever.

wow heart-wrenching to hear about the fam...

gosh let me tell you, as i'm sitting here not being able to fall asleep, that i sure as heck learned a lot about myself, and even improved on it! the first time around, he took advantage of a weakness of mine, and blamed the breakup on that: you are a bitch, and you don't know how to control your words. you crossed the line, hurt me, made me feel like less than a man.

and you know what, at some level, that's true. and i learned! i am the eldest, and i grew up quite...bossy and arrogant, to say the least....the alpha female. and to hear this from someone i loved (who pushed me to this breaking bitch-mode point, but anyway), shook me. it made me realize that my partner should be my partner, and no matter how angry i get, i need to be aware that i'm talking to a human being. to someone who cares for me, supposedly.

anyway, it was this letting down of the guard, that got him to come back the second time around.
he pointed out that we BOTH had flaws, and i agreed.

and guess what, as he continued to ignore me, curse and talk down to me, i pleasantly made sure to never raise my voice. i did not curse ONCE. i didn't talk bad about his family. so...he had no ammo to use against me.

all i did was ask how his day was, how his daughter was, and when he literally told me, shutup, i don't want to talk about it, and i'm not in the mood to hear about your day," my response was, "ok honey you probably had a bad day no problem, reach out when you want to, sweet dreams."

i was boiling inside, confused, doubtful that this new approach will work, that he'll see right through it. but i also knew that if he was normal, if he was a good person, he would come through, he'd feel some guilt and not let me go.

but he did not. he continued to ignore. and when i said, sorry i have to call it quits because i know for SURE this time that i don't deserve this treatment, i realized i was talking to a sick person. and yet, i'm trying not to see it that way, because i don't want to pity this creature, which brings about feelings of longing and self-doubt that i couldn't be there for him.

i'm thankful about this new approach, though, and will use it for my other relationships.

your last graph says it all. and during these moments when i watch the sun come up with bags under my eyes, i'll continue to read the posts here...because we're not alone, and we can learn to enjoy Life again.

Yes, Dadda, highly intellegent children often are not good academic students . . . think Einstein and Mark Twain. The worse thing for a gifted child is boredom and the public schools are prone to that. Sad, but when a gifted child gets bored and is not prompted to challege him/herself outside of the classroom they often shut down completely. Too often the parents and teachers are way too bogged down to notice or to take action. Sad.

We moved a lot and I was an underachiever. I'm an introvert. I remember in HS we had aptitude test and when the teacher asked did anyone score over 140 I was the only one to raise my hand. I thought it was bad. I had to take the test papers up to her desk so she could see them. My grades didn't improve. I now know that 140 was a high score. I hid in school and didn't talk to anyone but by the same token no one was interested in talking to me. My grades were always good until we moved to that town. Yes, I was bored.

My mother kept trying to give my sister work to do at home. She burned the shirts she was to iron, she burned the food she was to cook. My little brother tore up the lawnmower. So I got to do all of that plus my younger siblings. I didn't have time for friends anyway.

It wasn't until I was 17 and my dad got me out of the house by putting me to work with him on the weekends that I found something I felt I could do well. I was the only girl or woman in that town who could run a bar as well as I did. I like challenges and that was certainly a challenge.`

Yes, I'm smart but I hide it. Intelligent, maybe. But something has to catch my interest for me to excel at it. The ex is brilliant in a bad sort of way but I beat him at his own game and I never thought I could do that. I do know I have some areas that hold me back. I'm more visual and have to see words. Don't spell them to me and ask what they are. If I'm reading and it gets too technical It goes over my head. Keep it simple and I've got it, My fence man was talking to me one day about some fencing I needed. I was explaining why the fence needed to be a certain way. He looked at me really funny and said you are really quite smart aren't you? He has horses too and I was explaining things he had never thought of concerning fencing and horses. I do hide that and don't say much so I surprised him.

This farm has been my biggest challenge and everyone that comes on here likes what I've done with it. It still holds my interest.

Good for you girl. You are right to be proud of what you have accomplished.

I have read this and wanted to comment for some time, This morning I am taking the time. I was at a very early age given many tests, and according to the IQ exam I was labeled genius. But then I was never put in any challenging classes because I was also labeled 'lazy' I have come to understand over the years that my laziness, or unwillingness to try was brought on early in life by young unknowing parents, and teachers who were not willing to look at me for what I was. I was taught early to keep my mouth shut and keep my thoughts to myself.

In first grade I was taking home chapter books to read, after a week I would bring them back and the teacher after a while said to me that there was no way I was reading them that fast. She then opened to a random page and pointed to a picture and asked what that picture was about. The picture had nothing to do with the story and so I described the picture. She looked at it told me I was stupid and then read the book to find out what it was about. The picture was of a rabbit on an icy pond, the story was about making maple syrup. I will never forget that moment as I have the picture in my head right now. She then demoted me to an easier reading group, and disallowed me from taking chapter books home. I hated reading after that.

When we were learning spelling the teacher told up that we would never see the 'sh' together in the middle of a word. I being who I was started listing examples of how that was incorrect (again first grade) after that tirade I never spoke up in class again.

At home my parents were very young and inexperienced as parents. Really I think there biggest worry was making sure that there was a roof over our heads and food in our bellies.. I would question decisions, like daddy why are we looking at new TV's when we have one at home? I was too active and was taught that good girls sat still and listened, they did not question.

And here I am today, running late for work again because I got distracted. I graduated from high school, 20 out of 200. Not bad really. I went to college and did really well, 3.8 until I met the N and he convinced me that he was more important that school as he would take care of me for the rest of my life and his dreams needed my full on support.

20 years later, I am starting over entry level.. Worthless, to the N with 3 kids. Still overly intelligent and logical, not what people want to hire entry level as I think they can tell in the interview that I could run the place give the time. When someone hands me a job description that is over 5 years old I question it, maybe I should still be the quiet girl who just nods and does what she is suppose to do. Only time will tell.

Today, feeling determined

Livelife that's why all my employers have called me unique and then found reasons to hold me back or cause me to quit. I'm the quiet one that stays in the back, learns my job to well and the bosses get rid of me. I know where its headed so I quit. My last employer told me that she didn't appreciate my efforts until after I was gone.

trisha,

this has been very close to home recently. Last year when I was hired I now believe it was because of these characteristics. My boss at that time had so many other priorities that he didn't want to do anything with the accounts. I came in and learned in 2 weeks how the school was run and from then on I was the only one who did anything with it. All e-mails were forwarded to me, all issues went through me I was completely overwhelmed but I got it done and all was well.. it all worked. the secretary he hired did the same. He did his job and we took care of the school.

Ne left and we have a new boss. within the last couple weeks I have had questions asked about things that I didn't know about. The secretary finally left back in December and we have a new woman who is doing a great job but not the same. Next years budget went through with out me even knowing it was happening so it was incomplete as teachers had been giving me things to make sure were included.. It was just a mess. Anyway, much frustration on my end. Tired tonight feeling like I am being pushed aside.

livelife,

My dad opened a new bar and my sister always was put to run one first. She left and I was put in her place again. I think my mother had a lot to do with where my dad put us to work. I was never mother's favorite but there were reasons for that. Younger sis left and I got that bar. There was no one else to run it. I don't drink and I didn't know how to make mixed drinks. Daddy handed me a book on how to make drinks and I was on my own.

Then he hired a girl who had been to bartenders school and knew more than me about drinks. I had to remake so many of her drinks because they were too sweet. I learned my craft the hard way by just doing it. I still don't drink alcohol. Dad was always having to keep an eye on sis but once he put me somewhere to work he never had to help me. He never interfered with the way I ran my bar because what I was doing worked and they were making money. Sis told me years later that everywhere Dad put me sales went up 15% and there was less trouble in the bars I managed.

You are very intelligent to be able to take over the school accts and learn them that quickly. I've found in my limited work experience that managers hire what they are. If the managers are good they hire good people. If they are lazy they hire the same. If they feel threatened in any way they will let you go or find a way to get you to quit. I've had that happen a lot. My last job was a pizza hut kitchen and she was working towards making me a manager. The other employees wanted me kept in the kitchen because I made pretty pizzas and I didn't make mistakes. I worked hard and they made more money the nights I worked. I'm still an underachiever. LOL

Livelife.

Don't let the idiots of the world discourage you from learning and growing. The best thing a parent or a teacher can teach a child is that learning is fun . . . not everyone will find every subject to their liking . . . but there are so many fields, topics, interests . . . as a very lonely, isolated child, I learned very early on that if I had a library card I would never be totally lonely again.

And, remember you are never too old to learn. Hang in there. Persist on knocking on those doors, pound on them, or wedge them open with a crowbar if you must, but don't let the ignorant of this world keep you down. You can do this. Hugs.

I'm so glad so many responses, now that I got my butt back here! I know sometimes my daughter tells me I'm in "lecture mode" about some subjects ... it's not really a lecture, but we actually have really good conversations about many subjects ... she's been interested in science, philosophical and spiritual subjects for years (she's 20 now). I just get excited ... and on the "mother stuff", I've always wanted them to think for themselves and BE ABLE TO, before the time came that they need to, as much as possible.

That was the irony growing up ... on the one hand, I'd hear about how I was supposed to be responsible (1) and set a good example (2). Of course, this usually occurred when I failed to meet expectations. Always wondered where this model of a "good example" was for me, but knew better than to ask that one ... I can remember my father telling me not to do my own thinking ... come to him "for the answers" I guess. Can't remember any specific examples or that he was upset when he'd say this. But enough mixed messages I guess.

I can see that is where exNH really got to me, too. Insecurities ... plus not really knowing or feeling confident about family stuff, since the family tree got pretty wild by the time I was an adult. I have a picture of me giving my oldest daughter her first sponge bath ... baby book propped in front of me ... I loved the library, too, growing up. I was the only girl and since I was bussed to school with children from all over the city after 3rd grade, I didn't have any neighborhood friends for several years. I remember checking out a book about sleep and dreams in 7th grade ... I was puzzled about the "dreaming in black and white" because I knew I dream in color ... it took me a while to understand, too, that being in a book doesn't mean it is "so". Took some time to understand that people don't always marry for love/commitment/companionship.

Fairytale, I loved what you said and that is what I finally realized too, after getting blamed for EVERYTHING, having his finger jabbing at me while he'd bellow, "You, you, you," over and over as he recited the litany of my supposed sins and evils ... I looked at it as if he was a "decent man" which is the same or close enough. And like you, I kept my temper ... mostly. I was getting pretty aggravated about how things were going the last couple months and made myself a bumper sticker about being married to the "promise breaker" and rode around with it for about 20 miles before I decided that probably wasn't the greatest idea I ever had.

I second that on "learning to enjoy life again". I think that is the most frustrating thing ... aside from my worries, I AM happy. When I screw up or make a bad decision, I don't necessarily enjoy it, but I am at least willing to pay the consequences ... this paying for my own "mistakes" and everyone else's though ... got quite old long ago.

I've come to appreciate that when I'm really anxious, I can't think very well. Other people in control of my life bothers me too. I am looking forward to the time when I really can enjoy life again. Not being able to make any future plans and all else (being a "legally regulated hostage") is not doing anything positive for quality of life or ability to relax ... though I catch moments and cheer when something good happens for someone I know. Keep reminding myself, too that there are good things that are coming about, despite the large number of hard to bear things right now ... and that if I had not personally been going through this (divorce, the never-ending divorce) I probably wouldn't believe (my experience) it was possible for the legal system to be so destructive or a god-awful mess .... maybe there is a purpose or I can make one ...

Trisha, I was sort of laughing when you were talking about your sister ... I guess I wondered if she "screwed up" on purpose ... I have suspected that of my daughters on occasion .... that seems to often be a problem at work, when you have aptitude for a variety of tasks. Getting put in charge of other people's performance. I remember learning that is one of the problems of promoting someone who is good at their job, responsible and enjoys what they do ... all of a sudden, they have it times however many people they work with. I always prefer working where there is accountability on each person for their own performance, but teamwork. I never mind helping someone else (and LOVE it when I can count on someone when I need some) and don't mind training and the like, but I always hated having to make surprise visits and critique people on the spot, etc.

And like you said, Livelife, when you have everyone coming to you, but no communication from the other end. It sounds like rather than being pushed aside there is more a lack of knowledge and communication. Especially if you are getting questions about things you don't deal with. The budget is certainly important; I would think a memo or something would have been posted to the teachers to make sure their requests were turned in timely to the person who did the budget this year. Hopefully, they have realized what has happened and are big enough to communicate and take whatever steps they can to fix it.

Quepasa, I like that ... I had started substitute teaching in K-12 back in 2003 ... I can't believe "school". Right before that, I spent a semester in a 5th grade classroom. I had work-study funds and was tutoring at the beginning, but asked to stay on to learn more and one thing I learned is that a student teacher can take a new student and turn them into special ed in about two weeks time. I listened to the teachers complaining in the hall one late afternoon that the upcoming trip to the symphony would be wasted on these city students, who wouldn't "appreciate it". Another time, I heard the principal yelling at the student who'd been turned special ed. I went to the college and tried to think of the best thing to do ... I couldn't find anyone or thing to check with, so I went back and bit the bullet and told the principal ... something. I know I was shaking in my shoes at the possible ramifications of my action, so I have no actual recollection of what I said. I just knew it didn't sound appropriate. She didn't kill me or take any retributive action, but whether there were any positive effects?

Think I will take your suggestions, too. I've been thinking of something I've talked about in therapy, several times since this divorce started. I expected certain things would happen, like when I made the report about the nurse. I REALLY thought she'd be ordered into treatment and it would be a good thing, because unless she is a predator type, she'd "come to her senses" at some point ... and would she really want to find out she'd seriously damaged her life ... and her son's? I'm of course (put it this way, my head spins, when I think about it) not thrilled at how my daughters and I have ended up as "the victims" in this entire debacle.

Anyway, I realized that despite these "DV advocates" and all else (attorneys, etc) there is precious little advocating going on. I also realized that I have taken action on others' behalves, despite time, cost, effort. On occasion, I've seen and really respected the small handful of people I know of who will stand up for what is right, despite the potential for negative consequences for doing so.

Therapist will tell me the world is FU'd. Maybe so, but not everyone in it is ... I told him I need to run across someone like me or some of the people I've known ... I guess the past three + years have taught me that courage and true integrity to ideals or a "mission statement" (law, ethics, etc) is actually somewhat rare. Really sucks that I have no real use or interest in law ... and that everyone on the other side of the equation seems to treat everyone and every situation as if it was an oreo cookie or something ... all the same ... I suppose that makes their work easier ... sort of wish I could inflict the version of "life" that's left me in on them for a week or so ... I just read an article tonight about a woman who was sentenced to 48 hours in jail for a violation (she was in a drug treatment program). The judge apparently wrote in his orders to hold her "until further orders of the Court". It was something like 154 days before she was released. I'm curious how many times she tried to have someone check into the matter after her two days was up ...

I did some observations at other schools. I really liked the Montessori schools I visited. "Regular" school always seems to have the teacher up front, talking and explaining things