PL I'm so sorry, there are some shocking men around and thank God for your curiosity asking to see photos of his daughter . . . which led to the revelation of the baby. I know it's upsetting to think he lied but it's great that your sixth sense and gut is kicking in, you are asking those questions and delving deeper into things. You are finding out the truth, so yes there is disappointment but one day there will be a guy who you know is telling the truth. It won't be in the words he says it will be in the way he conducts himself and his life, you will be asking those questions and the answers will make sense.

You are an awesome person, remember that you deserve better . . . there are a LOT of frogs out there but there will come a day when there is someone who really is who he says he is. I believe that. There are a lot of assholes out there though. Keep that gut instinct and keep probing them!!

I joined a dating site a few months back and was shocked, the men made me feel physically sick. Some were so forward about physical intimacy despite the fact I'd never even met them. I stayed on there three days then asked for my money back. I'm happy being single at the moment, I actually like myself for the first time in years and I feel renewed hope in life. I call it MANTOX. Just like detoxification from a poison or junk food I believe the soul needs a good ole mantox. Detoxify the mind and soul of assholery, flush them out like a toxin !

You deserve so much better than these men, if it feels wrong to you then it IS wrong. xxx

Yes strengh ! I love your mantox ! That is what needed.

They are poison.

A belief that there is/are some good men put there is hard for me to grasp. But if you believe - I will believe. Every time I meet a man they reveal (at some point) an awful awful side to them. I am learning, yes. The old me would have stayed in the 'relationship' with my ex n for years. As it is it was just months. And bit even that really, as he 'turned' after just two months. So anything after that was just me working out what the f to do.

He is unbelievable !!! He came round yesterday, I need a lot of help with boat maintenance at the mo, plus he is under the impression he has saved the day by coming back to me. I don't see us as together at all. I'm annoyed with myself for contacting him and letting him back in. But I just don't take him seriously. Which is good because yesterday he launched back into the whole wants to be just friends thing. Ugh. We are not even that !!! That's not a friend. So I'm pleased to say he is making his exit once more, he is making the end very easy really. He even said he can't have sex with me because I don't want to move in with him (he is planning to buy a boat, I'm trying to sell mine, I'm done with boats). Anyway - more blatant illustration of his bullying ways !! 'do what I want you to do or we're over ' !!

Go away you stupid man.

I feel like I'm getting closer to the no tears thing I dream about.

On the French creep - yes thank god I asked to see the photos of his daughter !! Not knowing it would lead to pics of his son !!! Classic narc reaction when it came out - he manged to blame me - 'oh, didn't you know'??

Well I can't know what people don't tell me dumbass.

Done with that. Close to ridding myself totally with ex N. what had scared me most about him is his total la k of affection and withdrawal of sex. No 'relationship'' grows with that shit going on.

Mantox time !!! MANTOX !!!

Pl xx

Sorry some iPhone typos there x

Just wanted to say something on their intention. When I fully realise their intention is to hurt me/ manipulate me/ confuse me, a penny drops.

It's that intention that makes then an N or worse ( worse, same, just a different kind of worse ) a psychopath.

When we were recently out of our 'relationship', I came back from seeing my parents for the weekend, only to find he had been here, done lots of work on the boat, leaving a note saying how he thinks it's best we split.

It confused me, because I thought - who is this person suddenly helping? It must be me that's got it all wrong !!

But here we are - weeks later - and still so much work on the boat to do as winter approaches. Hey and guess what - he's not helpful anymore, had reverted to real self. He comes by, then says he's going to go as I'm painting ( can only do it when the weathers ok so time limited ). Doesn't actually HELP !!! That's one sick game.

One day while I'm washing everything down etc, he spends his time measuring the boat for a refurbishment I cannot even afford !!! Ludicrous !!!

It's actually like watching a mad man, which lets face it is what he is.

Pl x

I.e. he is only nice when we are out of a 'relationship'. When we're in it, not nice at all.

Sicko !!!!!

The narcs love a chase, some of them like to keep on chasing and when they have what they want they lose interest. It's the sign of a dysfunctional person, he isn't worthy of you and is lucky that you even gave him your time !

He sounds very immature and very much like someone who is stamping his feet when he doesn't get what he wants . . . yet if you give him what he wants he won't be happy anyway. It's a no win situation for you, it really sucks ! I think mantox will give you some quality time for yourself, spend time developing your interests and take good care of yourself. I'm so glad that you are asking all these questions now, before children. I think it's wise to do so, I had a child with an N and have paid the price in emotional battery and threats to my child. I wish I could have had the normal family but I couldn't face the ugly truth of my situation (I think something was always wrong in the relationship). All power to you for facing the truth of these men now

X

I hear you PrincessLeaia, when we were separated he became nice. I do think part
of it was actually heartfelt (may be delusional-but he wrote out many impassioned
confessions) He kept referring to his "evil side" that he felt he couldn't control. Which
I didn't buy, as he didn't abuse other people, just my son and I. Especially me.

I think many men, by and large, give themselves a pass on behaving in a civil
fashion to those who are vulnerable and to whom they have responsibility
It's so much easier to find fault and then take off on a skiing or surfing vacation
then to stay home a take care of a child who tis miserable and throwing up.

Entrenched misogyny combined with narcissism/psychopathy is the ultimate
destroyer of families. It's the dementor combo

It is not a matter of gender, although both sides often boil it down to that as a generalization. Women who get hurt will often boil it down to "all men are bad.' Men who get hurt will often boil it down to "all women are bad." It isn't a gender-specific problem. I amounts, very simply, to a problem, internally, regardless of gender. There are bad people, and there are good people. And in the end, the responsibility for the bad behavior rests with the person engaging in it, not the gender group they belong to. One has nothing to do with the other. I have been with women, willingly, that were pure, un-diluted poison. I have been with other women who were not poisonous at all. They were good people but the relationship simply didn't work out, for whatever reason. Man traps will do a number on men, emotionally just as a playa's will do a number on women, and the end result is equally unpleasant on both sides. The good people get lost in the shuffle of dealing with all the drama that emanates out from the bad ones like spreading ripples on a pond.