Narcissist Trauma Survival and Recovery Community Group
Support for those anyone who is or has been in a relationship with a narcissist. Together we are much stronger than any of us would be alone. A place for non-judgemental mutial support, advice, and comfort.
Thomas G. Plante, PhD, ABPP; Please check out my web site at www.scu.edu/tplante
How to spot a narcissist? It’s easy to do…like fishing in a barrel. Since there are so many of them out there and our culture helps to breed them like bunnies how can you not spot a narcissist? They are everywhere! Perhaps it’s harder to spot a non-narcissist than a narcissist today since non-narcissists seem to be more of the exception rather than the rule.
You know you are around a narcissistic when someone brings all conversations back to them and their stories and interests. They really can’t listen for more than a mere moment to others (unless the topic is about them). Sure, they’ll ask about you or listen to your story or needs for just a minute but then they’ll get that glazed over or distracted look pretty fast or change the topic to something about them. They can’t put themselves in the shoes of others and can’t experience empathy in a sincere manner. They also try to align themselves to important people and institutions. Fancy schools, clubs, activities, jobs, and so forth are all an attraction like moths to light.
Sadly, our culture that breeds individuality just reinforces and nurtures narcissism. So, there are a lot of them out there for sure.
The problem in our very individualistic society is that there are so many messages that it’s all about you! The message seems to be: "Have it your way! How can you be fulfilled? Reach your potential. You need more 'me' time", and so forth. Plus, Hollywood celebrities, politicians, sport figures, and others who get so much attention all are magnets for and models of narcissism. Prestigious institutions, careers, cars, homes, jobs, friends all are narcissism magnets too. Media, including social media, adds fuel to the fire making things so much worse. If you really pay attention to many people’s Facebook posts, for example, and read between the lines of their comments, they are screaming narcissism basically often saying, "here I am being great, having a great time, being with great people, eating great food, and having great thoughts that you all must be very interested in knowing about!"
Like ice crème, narcissists come in different flavors. Some can be very sociable, charming, and actually a lot to fun to be with as long as you keep the relationship superficial, don’t depend on them for anything, and you don’t ask them to do you any real favors at all. Others are really mean and cruel needing to diminish others to feel good about themselves. Some have a mild case of the condition while others have severe cases and perhaps are terminal narcissists. Thus, narcissists can manifest their personality and character pathology in multiple ways.
Of course, most narcissists really don’t think they are narcissistic at all! So, self understanding is very rare among them. They typically feel that they are perfectly reasonable and appropriate and can’t understand why others don’t find them to be wonderful, delightful, interesting, and right all the time. They are often demanding and entitled but don’t see it that way at all.
Yet, narcissists can, on the surface, be quite charming and engaging. So many of them can suck you into their world or orbit with great ease. But after awhile, they typically aren’t so charming and delightful to be around. In fact, since in their mind only they matter, you and others are really just pawns or prompts for their use and benefit. When they don’t need you anymore they discard you like a used tissue. They can’t really care about you, have much empathy for others, or put others first at all. It is and always is about them, their needs, their desires. They tend to have new and superficial friends and rarely have old friends and deeper relationships.
You have to really work on not being narcissistic in our current culture. Any efforts to nurture compassion, humility, and group goals can help but you must work at it constantly.
So, watch out for narcissists. They are everywhere and while they might be fun to go out with for a date you sure don’t want to bring them home with you!
So, what do you think?
How to spot a narcissist? It’s easy to do…like fishing in a barrel. Since there are so many of them out there and our culture helps to breed them like bunnies how can you not spot a narcissist? They are everywhere! Perhaps it’s harder to spot a non-narcissist than a narcissist today since non-narcissists seem to be more of the exception rather than the rule.
You know you are around a narcissistic when someone brings all conversations back to them and their stories and interests. They really can’t listen for more than a mere moment to others (unless the topic is about them). Sure, they’ll ask about you or listen to your story or needs for just a minute but then they’ll get that glazed over or distracted look pretty fast or change the topic to something about them. They can’t put themselves in the shoes of others and can’t experience empathy in a sincere manner. They also try to align themselves to important people and institutions. Fancy schools, clubs, activities, jobs, and so forth are all an attraction like moths to light.
Sadly, our culture that breeds individuality just reinforces and nurtures narcissism. So, there are a lot of them out there for sure.
The problem in our very individualistic society is that there are so many messages that it’s all about you! The message seems to be: "Have it your way! How can you be fulfilled? Reach your potential. You need more 'me' time", and so forth. Plus, Hollywood celebrities, politicians, sport figures, and others who get so much attention all are magnets for and models of narcissism. Prestigious institutions, careers, cars, homes, jobs, friends all are narcissism magnets too. Media, including social media, adds fuel to the fire making things so much worse. If you really pay attention to many people’s Facebook posts, for example, and read between the lines of their comments, they are screaming narcissism basically often saying, "here I am being great, having a great time, being with great people, eating great food, and having great thoughts that you all must be very interested in knowing about!"
Like ice crème, narcissists come in different flavors. Some can be very sociable, charming, and actually a lot to fun to be with as long as you keep the relationship superficial, don’t depend on them for anything, and you don’t ask them to do you any real favors at all. Others are really mean and cruel needing to diminish others to feel good about themselves. Some have a mild case of the condition while others have severe cases and perhaps are terminal narcissists. Thus, narcissists can manifest their personality and character pathology in multiple ways.
Of course, most narcissists really don’t think they are narcissistic at all! So, self understanding is very rare among them. They typically feel that they are perfectly reasonable and appropriate and can’t understand why others don’t find them to be wonderful, delightful, interesting, and right all the time. They are often demanding and entitled but don’t see it that way at all.
Yet, narcissists can, on the surface, be quite charming and engaging. So many of them can suck you into their world or orbit with great ease. But after awhile, they typically aren’t so charming and delightful to be around. In fact, since in their mind only they matter, you and others are really just pawns or prompts for their use and benefit. When they don’t need you anymore they discard you like a used tissue. They can’t really care about you, have much empathy for others, or put others first at all. It is and always is about them, their needs, their desires. They tend to have new and superficial friends and rarely have old friends and deeper relationships.
You have to really work on not being narcissistic in our current culture. Any efforts to nurture compassion, humility, and group goals can help but you must work at it constantly.
So, watch out for narcissists. They are everywhere and while they might be fun to go out with for a date you sure don’t want to bring them home with you!
So, what do you think?
I just remember working with a woman who was about my age, very well put together and not very "outgoing" or sharing. I know she wasn't a narcissist, because I ran into her at a store one day on a Saturday morning and she full-on blushed ... she had no make up on and was dressed in sweats ... I thought she actually looked prettier than when she had all the make-up and every article of clothing, accessories perfect. I just know that part of the N persona is to have the image "at all times", although it might be a different image for different groups of people. I'm just thinking that narcissistic behavior is encouraged ... although that does not mean that people actually are inside, if you can make human contact with them.
To me, a classic example is the detachment that professionals have to have in order to perform their duties ... police, health care professionals, teachers, therapists and the like. I won't say attorneys (in general), only because I have met several who are human and seem to be genuinely concerned about justice and the client's needs, but the rest I have been forced to deal with seem to have their own agenda going. I'll stop there, on that.
I could exercise the detachment when I was involved in nursing and other jobs - volunteer or paid - where it was necessary, but I still couldn't help feeling for people ... wondering what they were like, wondering what was going on when they'd been restrained a good week or more in a bed, intubated and unable to make ANY verbal contact with the numerous people wandering in and out of their room all hours of the day and night. Then, there were doctors who would do a procedure and actually throw all the sharps onto the patient's blankets, totally oblivious to the risks that presented to patient and nurses who came in to do care. Or the one I liked ... the doctor who refused to allow medicine for a patient going through DTs ... at the time I didn't KNOW that could be fatal and the medication would alleviate the problem and mitigate the risk. To me, the most human and knowledgeable (and best role models) experts are those who could say, "I don't know" and those who point something out and give explanation to kick start my own thought processes ... or understanding of something affecting a person but maybe not "super obvious".
I read a fairly recent study that stated empathy is less prevalent, especially in those college age and below. There are probably many factors involved in that finding, but it interests me because the primary caregivers ... usually the mother/parents' interactions with their young child is supposed to be a crucial factor in the development of conscience, empathy and such ... it has become the norm to get children into day care (especially when "Welfare to Work" was instituted), preschool or Head Start by the age of 3. Most (good) parents KNOW that consistency helps their children learn the limits and boundaries initially ... rules and consequences are known over time and anticipated ... discipline (not punishment) starts from the outside, then is internalized as "self-discipline", conscience and empathy as understanding (ability to handle abstractions) develops.
I'm also struck that the number has increased since "no-fault" divorce was instituted in 1969. Coincidence? I think not. We teach children that people are both "disposable" and interchangeable (going along with the day care stuff) ... they are truly objects ... if you don't like the one you have, get another. You have the RIGHT to be "happy", not the responsibility. The adversarial nature of many (most?) divorce and breakups ... probably doesn't help matters, either. I'm not being judgmental ... I know there are marriages that will never get better and ARE dangerous, for one or both, because of pathology.
My daughter told me that there was a discussion going on in class this week ... and I think someone said that (and maybe it's a local thing) the children in Head Start (normally, kids in Head Start are low income ... I was one of them) are NOT being taught to say "Please" or "Thank You" because "those are middle class values". ?????? My daughter and I had a good discussion on that one ...
But what I refer to are seriously pathological NPDs, the extreme forms that destroy entire families, and whose relatives go no contact lifelong. It is sad, but it is not rare.
Based on my experience with multiple therapists in my quest to find out what was wrong with my ex, I think NPD is still very misunderstood by many, if not most, psychologists. This is why they think it is rare, they don't recognize it. The NPDs are too good at snowing the therapists when it suits them, and when they have to go. As they see nothing wrong, they stay away from therapists. So, in prevalence studies, they are not noticed.
Too many studies are also based on college kids, who may be naturally narcissistic at that age. True NPD tends to get really ugly in the 30s and 40s and beyond. The"young" and developmentally appropriate form may be much milder, more self-focused, rather than so hurtful to others.