I just wanted to say, too, that I was glad that I went into my "friends" list last night ... and probably, there are some people who I feel are friends who have not somehow got on my list ... but it did help me, because I not only spent some time thinking about what everyone else is going through, but also people who are on my list and who seem to have disappeared (for now, at least) and I can only hope they are doing okay. But I used to get all wrapped up in my own problems and stuff and honestly forget that others were carrying some pretty tough burdens, too. I went through the hugs and messages that I have received and thank you, 'cause already I honestly do feel surrounded by caring hearts and compassion ... I know this will be tough to get through, but other things have been, too and they are long over and done.

dadda, I hope you can feel the hugs and prayers I'm sending your way today. You've been through so much garbage with the fall out from this N, and I hope that this new event will somehow be used for good. Like you, I have my doubts that it will change him in any positive way, but maybe in the long run, it will somehow change your circumstances for the better. I will pray for that for you.
T.

Thank you!!! And I really like that you both saw how things "could" turn for good ... if he is listening ANYWHERE in his head ... but I honestly don't think so. Before my daughter took off in her huff, she told me her dad was helping with the loan papers ... I have pointed out to her that loans would have been largely unnecessary if we'd been working together. I had to take on debt in past (and now) just due to his immature way of looking only to himself.

And I "think" I am "getting it" ... the nurse played him ... still doing so probably so he doesn't turn on her (last year, they were supposedly working on getting her husband arrested for DV ... I am sure she cried him a river, but I'm sure she knows which side her bread is buttered). But for an N to face a spouse who KNOWS and tried to warn him, in good faith? No, he can't look into my face knowing what I know ... how destructive and how foolish ... I would have been quite able to have respect a man who'd learned something intelligent, but I can't respect someone who is willing to destroy me just to hide his shame from himself.

My daughters will have to learn, a woman is not a whipping post. If they need to deal with it psychologically by putting everything on me, I hope I can grow a very thick skin and lots of wisdom (as in the serenity prayer). I'm not willing or going to take blame for what isn't mine, but hope I can let them vent, as we do here. It's that "knowing the difference" and knowing how to respond that gets me, most of the time.

But seriously, a few hours in jail for everything he has done and put me through over the last 13 years is nothing .... I sort of wish his mom and him would do like the Egyptians did when they finally let the Hebrews leave ... gave them clothing and gold and silver and hurried them on their way. I guess that would be hoping for a bit too much?!

I talked with my stepmother, too. For a long time, she's thought the younger was more or less "on daddy's side" or should I say would side with him. I guess it's sort of hard for me to understand it now from my perspective. It just seems really weird because she usually has a strong sense of justice and such. But I also get the idea from watching that he has treated our older daughter "better" in terms of attention, approval and materially overall. So I'm guessing (?) there may be some of that natural competitiveness as well as longing for a parent's "love"? Does that sound right at all? Either way, I know what is stressful on me must be way more stressful for them.

Jmandy: I don't wanna be strong!!! Seriously, I know it will help me more than it hurts, but I remember I had one therapist who was always telling me about what didn't kill me ... and I finally pointed out some people end up crippled etc and I finished off with the thought, "I didn't sign up for the Olympics!!" I am laughing as I remember that and somewhere around here I have a picture that has to do with taking a final exam for a class you never signed up for ... I will have to find that too.

I will be so glad to have a "drama free life" so very glad.

There is always the chance that this will be a catalyst for him to move on with the divorce. As for your daughters, they are big girls now. Girls often side with dad for a while. it is not easy to let what they say slide off your back because it hurts. At the same time realize that they are comfortable with you or they would not say what they are saying. Kids are caught in the middle because they have 2 parents

I spoke to a consellor once about just this. My kids had been abused, had seen me being abused and yet it seemed they were down on me at first They thought. I could have fixed my marraige and just gone back and they were upset with me because I didn't. The counsellor told me that kids will always side with the parent that holds the power and that would change as they matured. beleive me it has changed. I have 5 powerful protectors who have sorted out the truth. I could not change my ex or stop the abuse. I don't know if looking toward the future helps when you are in the midst of the present pain. But I know the stinging pain you are going through and that feeling of being all alone and misunderstood..

I am deeply sorry. I bet you never had anyone close to you go to jail (hopefully) as I never did either. But my ex, possibly an N, has been indicted for robbing me. We have been in court for two years on establishing his sanity alone.
I know how hard it is to see the person who was once the center of your world go down that road. I know how hard that is and I hope you can live with it. I find that I cannot.

Boydie, I am sorry. No, I do not find it easy. But I went to jail myself and I know that many things CAN be a wake-up call, IF people are in the right frame of mind. If they are not, it becomes an exercise in futility. I am still convinced that there is something "not right" with his mind and I strenuously tried to get my attorney to get him a psychological eval, something, rather than just putting out a protective order. But the law doesn't have many avenues and I definitely don't want to get myself hurt, whether there is something "wrong" with him or not, by continuing to pass it by. Besides things like depression and bipolar disorder or schizophrenic type psychoses, I am aware that metabolic or infectious disorders can cause behavioral changes; I know my husband has a gambling problem ... I don't understand that very well, but it does affect the brain in a similar manner as cocaine. And I have known people who are "strung out" and then later, they are like different people. So I don't know if the urges and feelings are at all similar.

But I am sorry for your pain and I know, I remember a different guy. I do, rightly or wrongly, believe that the proximity and control by his parents, particularly his mother, have probably worsened things and made a better outcome (for us) impossible. I understand at least some of it, but he is heading fully toward self-destruction and I can't go with him there. Nor can I allow someone who has become a stranger destroy everything through fits of rage, entitlement or whatever is going on. I just told my daughter earlier that I know her father wouldn't do anything to hurt me or them, IF he was in his right mind. If I have any say, that is what I will be advocating toward. But as his wife, I have absolutely none. He is completely surrounded by those who will "love" him to hell on earth or death. Ironic.

I just wish I had some words that would ease your pain.

Dadda,
sorry about what you are experiencing right know. My thoughts and my prayers are going to you. It is hard when those who are supposed to be behind you are the one who are causing you problems. I want to tell you something, you are a good woman with good heart. You are in tough situation right now, when people you care about are the one who are judging you, but I admire you for the way you forget about yourself and think of us, of all other people who are the one who is having problems. You forget your problems and are sending a message of hope. It is not often we see people like you. Be strong, I know it is tough but someday it will be over. I pray that God give you some peace tonight and protect you from hunting thoughts of those who want to make you feel bad. You did not do anything wrong , they do not have any right the treat you they way they do or judge you. Hugs

I agree that kids stay closer to the abusive parent. It's a strange concept and maybe it's that kids instintively knowing how to keep their enemies closer than friends.

I believe that your daughter will reach out for you, when she is ready, in her own time, and it's how you deal with it when it happens that will help your daughter process the experience with better clarity. I think that it's important that she know that you love her unconditionally yesterday, today, and tomorrow.

As well, your eldest daughter has her role in the family dynamic and I bet that she protects her younger siblings from her Dad's BS, subconsiously or knowingly.

Family units with one or two N parents usually cast the eldest as the Hero or Golden Child, the middle child as the Black Sheep or Scapegoat and the youngest sibling as the Lost Child - escapes into daydreams, etc...

The roles can be mixed about. I was the eldest daughter and the scapegoat. I also suffered from emotional incest. I was my father's primary relationship in the family - not my mom. I was raised to the status of an adult in elementary school.

I have empathy for your daughter. She's playing a part that she's been cast into and when the dust settles, she needs to know that you love her:)

I read these posts and my heart is with you. I remember all the trash that was hurled at me while I struggled to survive. Tough as that was it does not compare to being basically strangled by the other person. I cannot understand why he keeps dragging out this divorce? if he wants his nurse friend so badly why would he not sign off and move on. Is he hoping to keep you on a teher in case he flls out of love with her or what.

Oh, Oldandwiser, his nurse friend is messed up too. She is sitting at home, with her husband and child, not going through any of the mayhem she helped to incite. Yes, I know he was involved in making decisions, but I read the letter and it is full of insinuations, how she "fantasized about being" his wife, how her husband was set on going through with the divorce (there has never been one filed in her marriage) and how they would "pick up where they left off" once their divorces came through. Personally, I think she is still stringing along with him so HE doesn't turn on her. He certainly can't "come back" here, where all three of us would have "told him so" way back, because we cared, could he? He already projects his mother onto me, why not the rage about the frustration with her? Anyway, he never intended to make a settlement. He wanted me out, right away, take my stuff and go. He got his attorney back after the judge said I could live here. He told me his attorney was going to "wap" me (my attorney recently told me his attorney has been unethical in his previous treatment of me), so I got mine for protection. I have been "wapped" before and it is NOT pleasant!

She is more "in the wrong" as the professional, though, and this may not be her first or only "conquest". I sensed from her letter that her husband did not fulfill her "romantic" notions, but they are "childish", she talks about romance novels and movies and thinks that is how "real life" is supposed to be. So she takes a lover and "rubs her husbands nose" in spite ... it is nuts. Would you want THAT person taking care of you? My hope was she'd have to get treatment, being so obvious she's disturbed.

I really felt cheered up, too, by your note, Cattleya. Sometimes, especially when I "lose it" I feel really far away from my "ideal". And I don't expect I will reach it in my life, but I really felt that I am picking up and choosing the right paths. I hope that will be second nature, eventually.

I know you are right about the dynamics, Crystal. I was oldest too and in my teen years, was without a mother, so had some of the added burdens. I used to have nightmares about things happening to my brothers when I was really young (like 5 -6) so I know I felt a responsibility there was no way I could fulfill. And had my struggles with guilt for not being a "better" sister. But on a slightly mischievous note, that is what the in-laws and all get for sending me to the loony bin on false allegations ... I really got into the little classes they'd have with those scapegoats and lost children, the family maps and group sessions and all. I always liked psychology and ended up majoring in it after the divorce. And oh, yes, I can be the "identified patient" because I now know the implications on the rest of the crowd.

But seriously, I believe you are right and I understand that she loves her father. It was just extremely hard today, because I had to hear all the lies they were told thrown back at me again, and I guess I have not strengthened there as much as I need to. I still can't believe she thinks I have paranoid schizophrenia AND bipolar disorder and do as well as do without meds (in fact, I take meds that would aggravate both those conditions. Maybe if I learn to giggle, thinking about how they exaggerated!)

I am feeling a lot better and part of that was getting disengaged from her emotions, yes having a good cry over lost dreams and also, having sensible and caring heads and hearts around me. Thank you all very much. I know some family therapy would probably help, but with the same things going on, I doubt it would get far. I know that my daughters will have a lot to sort out and heal from, too. So I will keep working on what I can, myself. So I can be supportive and encouraging to them as well and get less personally tangled up with it all.

Dadda,
The others have said it all. The pain of having a child turn on you must be worse than anything the N can throw your way. Just know that she is not thinking clearly as she is so mixed up emotionally and psychologically. Somehow children have a need to protect the wayward parent, and often turn on their true protecting parents. Don't take it personally. As one of the ladies said, just try to let her know you love her. Taking the abuse from her is so hard, stand our ground with dignity and hope she comes around in the future. Keep venting. You need to release some of that pain. We are all here to envelop you with hugs and tears. Courage.

Thanks again ... she came home today, slinging demands around, although her sister and I were "doing our thing". I told her I could sit down once I finished what I was working on. She has been angry, but I didn't get sucked into that and told her I wasn't going to do the drama, so she'd have to go elsewhere if she was going to continue it. I have the loan info and got her FAFSA updated, so she now has some Pell money; working on the "Special Circumstance" form and went over her bills for housing, classes and asked what else she "needs". So now, her job is to take her car for written estimate of any work that needs doing and start going through her stuff to pack. I didn't laugh, but only on the inside, when she told me she CAN'T live on "only" $700 a month!! (and that is with meal plan paid for!). Guess she is up for more learning than she knows! But she is puttering around in the back of the house and seems to be a lot calmer, so bless you and thank you all for helping me get my head and heart straightened out again!

I live on less than $700/month with the meal plan I am on (food stamps) but a part time job would cover the $700.

Glad to see you are getting yourself back together. That is what we do.

And, yes learning to giggle and laugh about things is such a healing thing. really, when we are so entrenched in the life of a narcissist. what else do we have..

Well, eventually, we'll have more than giggles, I think!! Look at you, a new job and school! I changed my FB profile pic to one of me when I was getting ready to do the same ... 40 hour weekends with the girls (group home, we usually had great weekends) and full-time school. I need to get my batteries revved and my motivation going. Also going to check if there are any "open enrollment" classes or self study since I would like to be heading back into career mode, but don't want to bomb with "everything" to contend with.

I'm trying to get creative to save money when I move; I have to get my bills down 'cause interest rates are going to jack up. I actually wondered if the Amish might rent rooms inexpensively? Oh, well I am brainstorming, now!!