Narcissist Trauma Survival and Recovery Community Group
Support for those anyone who is or has been in a relationship with a narcissist. Together we are much stronger than any of us would be alone. A place for non-judgemental mutial support, advice, and comfort.
I've been so stressed and preoccupied with the looming court proceedings with my exN that I've not been very active here in the group.
So, after the AVO going through with no drama, neither of us needing to appear at court to deal with each other, finally the criminal proceedings dealing with assault and malicious assault of property happened.
I turned up early and went to my local coffee shop before hand, he was there with two friends that I vaguely know, and sat there with a familiar smug look on his face, not willing to give up my coffee shop, which we don't share, (he lives out of my area) I sat out of range and view and tried to enjoy my coffee and get my head together before proceedings.
At the local court, he immediately tried to engage with me before proceedings, when no one was around or looking, asking me " Babe, are you here to support me, will you stay with me through the day?" I ignored him, and when he continued to ask me for information about the case, I pointed towards the court schedule, then as he continued and his lawyer turned up, I pointed to his lawyer and said 'That is who you should be talking to'
As fate would have it, he had another matter appearing on the same day. He had trespassed and been inappropriate during one of his drinking binges. In true form he was pleading not guilty.
I watched as his lawyer put his victims on the stand and cross examined them, trying to make them look foolish and implicate them for his incredibly bad behaviour. This made me furious! I actually ended up providing support for those people during the break, letting them know they were doing a good job, telling the truth, and that it is obviously his fault, not theres.
He didn't win his not guilty plea, was forced to pay a substantial fine, and ordered into a probation and court ordered rehab. One that would take him back to his home town, where he is currently living, and away from me thankfully.
Next his and my case came up. Predictably, he plead not guilty, even though the evidence is very conclusive. He and his lawyer actually came up to me and tried to explain that this is just a mere formality, that they are doing this because he will do jail time if he pleads guilty right now, and they encouraged me to not turn up to court on the set scheduled date!
So, furious again. I didn't engage, asked them to leave me alone.
Now however, I am anxious about the next court date because it is obvious that I will now be presenting all of the abuse and deranged things that evil man put me through, rather then just the actual incident that got us to court, and that I'd hoped would get him away from me, out of my life, and make him accountable for once.
On a positive note. I think that this may be good for me, even though scary, because it will allow me to totally cleanse and break free from that monster and the hell I experienced with him.
I have therapist at the ready, knowing that this will also bring up much of the issues that we've been discussing in therapy, identifying how I managed to be in this situation.
Scary ride ahead, and I dearly hope I'm organised enough within the feeling of trauma and anxiety that I feel.
But I am determined to see this evil N get what he deserves, and he is not going to manipulate me or make me pay for his self hatred anymore.
So, after the AVO going through with no drama, neither of us needing to appear at court to deal with each other, finally the criminal proceedings dealing with assault and malicious assault of property happened.
I turned up early and went to my local coffee shop before hand, he was there with two friends that I vaguely know, and sat there with a familiar smug look on his face, not willing to give up my coffee shop, which we don't share, (he lives out of my area) I sat out of range and view and tried to enjoy my coffee and get my head together before proceedings.
At the local court, he immediately tried to engage with me before proceedings, when no one was around or looking, asking me " Babe, are you here to support me, will you stay with me through the day?" I ignored him, and when he continued to ask me for information about the case, I pointed towards the court schedule, then as he continued and his lawyer turned up, I pointed to his lawyer and said 'That is who you should be talking to'
As fate would have it, he had another matter appearing on the same day. He had trespassed and been inappropriate during one of his drinking binges. In true form he was pleading not guilty.
I watched as his lawyer put his victims on the stand and cross examined them, trying to make them look foolish and implicate them for his incredibly bad behaviour. This made me furious! I actually ended up providing support for those people during the break, letting them know they were doing a good job, telling the truth, and that it is obviously his fault, not theres.
He didn't win his not guilty plea, was forced to pay a substantial fine, and ordered into a probation and court ordered rehab. One that would take him back to his home town, where he is currently living, and away from me thankfully.
Next his and my case came up. Predictably, he plead not guilty, even though the evidence is very conclusive. He and his lawyer actually came up to me and tried to explain that this is just a mere formality, that they are doing this because he will do jail time if he pleads guilty right now, and they encouraged me to not turn up to court on the set scheduled date!
So, furious again. I didn't engage, asked them to leave me alone.
Now however, I am anxious about the next court date because it is obvious that I will now be presenting all of the abuse and deranged things that evil man put me through, rather then just the actual incident that got us to court, and that I'd hoped would get him away from me, out of my life, and make him accountable for once.
On a positive note. I think that this may be good for me, even though scary, because it will allow me to totally cleanse and break free from that monster and the hell I experienced with him.
I have therapist at the ready, knowing that this will also bring up much of the issues that we've been discussing in therapy, identifying how I managed to be in this situation.
Scary ride ahead, and I dearly hope I'm organised enough within the feeling of trauma and anxiety that I feel.
But I am determined to see this evil N get what he deserves, and he is not going to manipulate me or make me pay for his self hatred anymore.
Poor guy; might have to go to jail?! And you should "feel sorry" for someone who isn't sorry, probably not even sorry about getting caught, just mad that you "screwed up their plans" (at least that is the attitude I've gotten). But strangely, it was his getting arrested for violating the PO that finally persuaded him to leave me alone, though not completely ... still the indirect route. Whatever. I've at least dealt with his kind before; most of them "get a life" and find something/someone else to get interested in long before things have to go so far.
For me, the reporting and "talking out loud" about the things that have happened, have both freed me and I even think maybe that is what freed up my mind to see the rest of the truth that's come out? I hate Court altogether. It hasn't gone "terribly" in a long time, but whether it goes really well (in terms of outcome) or only so-so. I am always a nervous wreck until I am in there and know it will be only a little bit longer. Court, to me, is just the last place any genuine relationship would ever end up.
Are you doing anything in particular to prepare? Or to help you relax in the meantime? Hugs ... you are definitely not alone in the anxiety department ... all I can ever think is "breathe".
I am trying to prepare, through therapy, which is specifically with an anti violence project here in my city, and by keeping close with friends. The main issue for me at the moment is that this has taken such a toll on my body. I loose weight when I'm anxious or stressed, and I have lost my physical resilience. So I'm trying to concentrate on health, and just making myself feel happy, it feels like he was really successful in sucking the positivity out of my life.
I have ran into some local friends recently that are colourful and brave, they made me feel happiness while I was with them that I haven't felt for a long time. Predictably, exN steered clear of these people whenever they were around, and eventually this meant that they were not around me, just another of my positive support that was being controlled and culled by N.
I'm hopeful and positive about getting my life back, knowing that it's there for me when I am ready to claim it, and I just know it's a hard journey.
My therapist is working with me on 'activating my script', meaning that I have intellectualised my need to change negative familial patterns for a very long time, but have never truly cut off from old patterns or scripts, felt the emotional loss, and committed fully to my new vision of the positive life that I've created, yet not fully embraced. So this should eventually be a very exciting time for me.
Regarding Ns reaction to being caught, yes, he has no concern for me, I have never met anyone so self absorbed and completely disinterested in the welfare of others. It's a very angry time for me, I'm trying not to let that over ride the positive changes I also need to allow to enter my life, it's a balancing act.
I think for me, 'talking out loud' took a long time to sink in as the obvious functional route, because in talking out loud about my abusive situation, I was also outing the whole family narrative that has allowed me to be in this horrific situation.
I never imagined that i would allow someone to damage my body without removing myself or reporting, and it still shocks me that it took me so long to report and out the situation. Funnily enough, it's more consuming for me at the moment to deal with the verbal abuse and constant badgering that wore me down so much that i still feel continuously exhausted.
I look forward to a time when my climb back to a space of safety and positivity is less difficult and exhausting, but I do know that it's on it's way, and that this time I am going to truly invest in changes that are long lasting and a truly positive addition to the rest of my life.
I wish for you the strength and resilance you need to survive your court date. I question what you mean when you say that, now you will have to testify about all the horrid things he has done, rather than just about the specific case. Why would you have to do that? Is it wise? Is it necessary? Having worked as a court steno years ago, I know that the judge usually frowns on having extra, or unecessary details (especially about prior fights and incidents) brought to the court when the court was there to adjudge only the current matter. Usually, adding such details is thought to reflect negatively on the one doing the "unnecessary" talking. Please don't think I have any opinon on your personal business, as I don't. I just want to warn you to be careflul as, normally, the person who stays the calmest and the most precisly attuned to the specific problem at hand "wins." Make sure that whatever you testify about is really relevant and won't make the judge mad> Good Luck. Let us know how it goes. We care.
I guess I'm hoping that there won't be any need for extra evidence, and thought initially that this is how it would play out. The reason I am anticipating that the need for more may eventuate is because I watched him and his lawyer create a very defensive case with his other court issue, pushing issues of character, both for the witness and N defendant.
His strategy is usually to attack the character of anyone challenging him, while highlighting what a 'model citizen' he is, that is the strategy I witnessed him and his lawyer using.
I hope that there is no need for extra, because I really don't need the stress however, I am making sure I'm prepared in case he goes down the same line of attack within court proceedings with me.
Because my case is about domestic assault, this would be the only evidence I would be bringing into the proceedings. I am hoping it stays on the incident that bought us to court however, if he pleas not guilty, claims that it was an 'accident', or 'out of character', I need to have evidence to prove that this is not the case.
I also think that being prepared may help me to stay calm, even if there is no reason to utilise all of the evidence prepared.
But I agree, usually from what I've seen, Judges get annoyed when people exacerbate and complicate cases. I will make sure that won't be me, unless my hand is forced by his lawyers.
Cheers.
Samesame, I do wish you strength and growth through this.
Yes! exactly, that's what I'd usually think, but this circumstance has been anything but 'normal'. The day after court proceedings I ran into him in my local area because he was still in my city after court. He was drunk, started to escalate in drama and abusive language towards me. I told him to stop, leave me alone, when he kept being hostile I went to the police station to report because I thought this breached the conditions of the AVO (apprehended violence order) The police officer told me that there was hardly anything he could do about us just running into each other. I told him that this was not just running into each other, that the conditions of the AVO were specifically that he couldn't approach me while drug or alcohol effected. The officer questioned how I knew he was drunk, all I could say was, I have been with this person for long enough to realise when he's intoxicated, and that his behaviour reflected this, also that my experience of this behaviour leads to him being violent towards me.
Meanwhile, N had followed me to the station, was outside talking to the very same police prosecutor that was at his last case. The officer I was talking to went out and spoke with them. After a short while they came back in, and both told me that there's really nothing I can do about someone 'just having a drink' gave me minimal contact and left.
He has a reputation with the local police, they see him as the harmless drunk, getting into minor mischief, none in which their minds equates to violence, because he is charming to strangers and acquaintances, even while drunk, and leaves his aggression for his secondary narcissistic supply (me)
So, even though I know he has done the same to every partner he's had, I am the first one to out it, and the cops sort of think I'm a drama queen.
My only saviour on this day was a local lgbt anti violence project, that called the police and made them take a report. Also a legal team that specialises in lgbt domestic violence.
That's the other deal, many people are slow to believe same sex relationship domestic violence.
Thanks for your good wishes.
When it comes to testifying, you need to remember that the DA will ask YOU questions. First of all, make sure you stick to the truth. Do not embellish. It is highly unlikely that you will need to bring up your entire past with your N unless it is relevant. Stick to the facts of why you are there. Keep your answers as short as possible. Don't offer more than you are asked. If additional information is needed, wait until you are asked.
I was married to a lawyer and the one thing that he would always tell me is sometimes the less you say the better. Let the lawyers ASK you the questions!!!
My XN lawyer husband filed a false police report and has me arrested for domestic assault and battery. If that wasn't enough while I was in jail, he wrote and typed himself a request for a restraining order. Well, he didn't get it and then the judge asked me if I wanted a restring order against him. Well, I got it bit it was the HARDEST thing I ever had to do! It was "priceless" seeing his face drop.
Lastly, you need to be credible and keep to the truth. Try to keep your emotions in check. The one thing that I did while testifying was to keep my cool and keep my facts straight. My XN on the other hand lied and when it was my turn to talk, I disproved everything he said in a calm manner. Trust me, I know it's hard but it was harder for me because my husband is a lawyer and knew the legal system. The look on his face was priceless when he was caught in a lie. Better than the master card commercials. Lol!
Remember that judges have seen everything!
You do see him. It sounds as if he doesn't need to be drinking to be an az z
sound like he is exactly the image of decorum and a model citizen. There is no way he could prove he is because he already has a "record"
It is perfectly normal for you to be apprehensive about the court though, since your fate is being handed over to a third party. Always remember, "Right is might". Like Sue said, "When it comes to testifying, you need to remember that the DA will ask YOU questions. First of all, make sure you stick to the truth. Do not embellish. It is highly unlikely that you will need to bring up your entire past with your N unless it is relevant. Stick to the facts of why you are there. Keep your answers as short as possible. Don't offer more than you are asked. If additional information is needed, wait until you are asked.
Have courage. Hold your head high and remember we are all cheering for you.
"
I am perplexed and annoyed at the moment, because at this time I seem to have developed some warped misplaced sort of empathy/sympathy for N. Mainly I think because I had him removed from a house he was staying at because he was using their phone to harass me. My intentions was not to have him removed, I just contacted the home owner and asked them to be responsible for keeping their guest in check (maybe not let them use the phone) however, they called back and said they'd asked him to leave and were sick of him getting drunk and feeling sorry for himself, which he'd been doing for the last two days.
So, I do think this is misplaced, and not unfamiliar, I've felt this before. The kind of 'normal' empathy one would feel for any person who was in a desperate situation who has lost housing and support. He also contacted me shortly after again, and this time of course instead of being abusive, was crying and pleading to meet up before he left the city because he 'loves' me.
Now I'm no fool, but this just means spending a shit load of time going over all the examples of how manipulative and nasty he really is. Followed by more repetitive amazement at how a person like this can actually exist! It's exhausting, makes me annoyed that I am this stupidly fragile. And I need to remind myself that maybe this is ok in some ways, that I still have the ability for compassion, just that I need to constantly remind myself that it's waisted on him!
I was only with this N for a year, and this is such an emotional roller-coaster! It has made me worry for my sanity at times. I can't imagine how it is for those of you who have spent many years with Ns. I've never seen such confusing, unpredictable, and dreadful behaviour. And that I stayed for a year still freaks me out completely.
Hopefully soon there will be more empowered positives to report.
Thanks again.
Rather than go through all the "old tapes" in order to keep reality, it helps if one realizes that person is in charge and responsible his own life and actions. Nobody "makes" him do what he does and nobody can "fix his problems" for him either.
Empathy can become a strong tool when one realizes it is still possible to care about another person hile hating what they do. Empathy has to turn inward as well, so as not become a victim of "what they do" anymore. Being kind to another has nothing to do with letting that person mistreat ones self. Oh yes, they cry and plead...but it is not crying and repenting for what they did to the other party. Instead they are crying for their own pathetic selves as they try to avoid personal hardship resulting from their own actions.
I suspect his landlord was more than happy to get your phone call as a catalyst to kick him out. If he had been a nice guy that wouldn't happen. He made his own bed and he has to lie in it so be strong as he dumps his sad pity parties on you.
As I look back to all my ex has done, the lack of self-discipline is evident, but it truly does go along with boundaries, otherwise, as most of us have noted, they'd be acting out everywhere and with everyone - and they DON'T. I've honestly been sort of afraid, too, at times, wondering if "going through with consequences" is going to end up escalating N. And yes, I suppose in some ways, it's bound to - until they know we are firm and/or the consequences too costly/unpleasant.
When I start adding up the lost assets, years, opportunities, sacrifices I made for broken promises and lies, the times I've been the "bigger person" or just done lots of beneficial things, then have my life "crunched", it adds up to one huge loss. Even though some of this will be somewhat unpleasant or you have to go against your "usual" nature, I'm almost positive that once you get past and TOTALLY have removed him as a sphere of influence in your life, you'll be glad.
The ex here has a Court date coming up for invading my privacy, so I'll be thinking of you and hoping/praying for strength, resolution and calm/peace of mind for you as well as myself. I am SO looking forward to "mundane, everyday" life ... all this drama has really invaded a lot of things I'd rather be doing.