Great read! As my brother always says, "You KNOW you're not crazy when you THINK that your crazy. CRAZY PEOPLE DON'T KNOW THAT THEY'RE CRAZY. They say, "I ain't crazy!"' I held onto that statements for the times I felt like I was crazy.

Funny, the ex-N IS crazy. And when I'd tell him that, he'd get really defensive. If he said it to me, I'd say, "Yeah ... I have my crazy parts." I think for him the term 'nuts' is more fitting.

"Emotional hold" ... wow. Thank God I pulled out of this one in tact. He's a monster. Looking back on how he ENJOYED seeing me in pain ... oh boy it helps to remember that. No contact is quite easy!

Dooji, that was what my therapist told me (about being vs feeling like "crazy"). But I really liked it when he asked me about Abraham Lincoln (trying to encourage me, of course), "What would have happaned if he had given up?" My reply, "He wouldn't have gotten shot." I think that sums up fairly well how pessimistic and distorted the view can get.

I agree with your take on NC. I am not attracted to him anymore, but I realize I have "enough" of the original dynamics PLUS the injuries and anxieties. And so as in substance recovery, I know my limits ... and the safest place is far from him or anyone that doesn't know/acknowledge the realities.

I just sort of wonder, sometimes, as you saying the ex-N is "crazy". I have noticed how much "worse" he became as his closest companions were strongly N (and living with N mom 1 1/2 years). I almost think that they try to "persuade" us to "carry" their real craziness at times.

I know that my ex-N felt more stable with me, because I dismissed a lot of his stuff as 'his pain'. (I'm in a healing profession.) I DID watch him fight with himself, in moments, to get a handle. He seemed to want to get better, because his life is a lonely one. He seems to have real N traits, as opposed to NPD. I read stuff here that shocks me a little. I imagine that each dynamic is different. I can see why some of us would like the distraction of being with an N. Admittedly, I received some level of energy from 'all the work'.

And there may have been some relief in being with someone who is 'crazier than I am'. *chuckle*

I find what you are saying interesting, because I have had the idea in past that he didn't want to be what he had become. And thinking or at least wondering whether it's traits vs NPD. But I think too, when push came to shove, he couldn't muster the strength to face himself. And I did not sign up to be anyone's sacrifice or a convenient throw away object. Depending on how I am reading between the lines, so to speak, I think I understand the comment about the "distraction".

But thanks to his throwing me into mental hospitals (after I had started counseling, in frustration with myself), I gained all kinds of information about why people feel bad ... my original intent in counseling was to get to the "root of the problem" and solve it, not cover it up with symptom relief or perpetuate it, pretending it doesn't exist. But one of the things I learned was that if one person in a system gets healthier, it puts demands or stresses on the others to change. The first time this happened, I didn't really understand that and I was pushed to get back into my "hole". No can do (anymore). I don't want to wake up at 80 and realize with regret that I wasted my whole life, especially based on fears of "what others will think". And for him, that is the reason he probaby will "die alone, by his choice". Even if he is "with" someone else.

I remember part of the initial attraction was that he seemed so socially at ease and seemed to have plenty of friends and was close to family; liked his nephews and nieces. I'm more of an introvert and even now can feel somewhat awkward. The exposure was good, though as I learned that many relationships have shallow roots and aren't based in any strong convictions or values - they are acquaintanceships, more or less. And there is nothing wrong with having acquaintances, just that I seemed to be at the same level and with the same "security" and "privileges", which is to say that HIS idea of marriage does not work for me.

Funny, too, you mention the energy from "all the work". That was definitely me, until I crashed and burned. But at some point, it hit me pretty hard that he would let things go on as they were, even if it killed me. That was definitely a bit of a wake up call.

So true about one person getting help and it upsetting the system. That's a typical experience talked about in 12-Step programs. I've actually created great distance in the past six months from family members, as they have the 'old programming'. My eldest brother and I 'get it', and the others ... well ... they just are who they are, and they grew up in the dysfunction and bring it into their current lives. As I do the deep healing work, I find it necessary to shield myself from my family. It's hard and lonely, but it's how I can find myself outside of how THEY see me.

I've chosen men based on my own insecurities. It's these insecurities that I'd like to bring healing to, so they'll stop having so much power in my life. I'd like to be attracted to an emotionally available man. :-)

This might sound tongue in cheek, but I wonder what an emotionally available man is like? Is he free from insecurities or just aware that he posesses them? I'm not saying that to put you on the spot, I'm just sort of wondering "out loud". I read this great post on FB a while back, on a N page. The woman who wrote the post was talking about the relationship (post N) she was in. She was describing all the things about herself that weren't "attractive". Il loved her post, because she was talking about having stinky, sweating arm pits and I could relate to that entirely! Or morning breath. I actually wish I had saved it, because I have never seen that sort of writing before, from a woman talking about being acceptable, warts and all, to the man she was with. And all of the warts she mentioned were pretty much the stuff that I think most of us can relate to.

I have already thought about the fact that my finances alone will be enough to keep me out of most relationships, and what would an emotionally healthy man make of the destruction? Not that I think about it a lot and I am not looking for a man, but I'm sure you get my meaning. And yet the legal fees keep mounting! LOL

I guess there's a question in there. Do you think you have to heal all your insecurities or is accepting enough? Or maybe, are there other ways of decreasing their power while you continue to work on healing? I guess the related question would be, do you think that a reasonably emotionally available/healthy/secure man could be attracted to you and even love you if you have areas of insecurity that remain? And beyond that, could such a man have insecurities or "flaws" (that might exist only in his own eyes, but could be stuff that others or you consider flaws).

I hope I don't sound (might have said this before) like I'm putting you on the spot; I'm honestly curious about how you see it. I had started therapy with the doctor I currently see because I occasionally seem to lose my confidence/competence; I know that is related to my own areas of insecurity (my sore spots). Yet I have cared about people who have physical, mental, emotional or other "flaws" and even though I might not be the "most" emotionally healthy, etc. I think I was more healthy than I appreciated in past or was ALLOWED to appreciate. Kind of like a lot of people got a great bargain on my "services". I'm thinking that maybe you have more going on than you realize but maybe have an ideal you feel you need to attain before?