Sometimes I feel like we fell in a hole, like Alice in Wonderland, and we are chasing the Rabbit, because we have to find out where he is going, why he is rushing, and what is he late for?

This hole that we are in, is what we were trapped in for a long time, and we were Hurt, very very hurt, and betrayed, and blindsided, and we just don't understand WHY and we just find it damn hard to accept what it was, and the truth that the relationship we had with them was very one sided.

If we weren't these type of women, who hold on, even when it is clearly over....they wouldn't have been with us. Because the other type of women....the ones that say, "Forget it, this is NOT for me....see ya" they are never with. Because they couldn't control them.

So now that we know this....why the obsession with them and the new supply. Because we are still doubting... that maybe it was US....that made them so unhappy, miserable. Maybe some other women knows the tricks to make them better people. That thought can keep us up at night. We want to be sure that he is the same person, that he was, with us. At least that would make me very happy. I want her to know that she didn't get any prize. So I know what you are feeling.

Do you want to hear a sick story about this past week with me? I went to my very first counseling this week and by the way....I cried my eyes out and got it all out. The woman must have thought I was nuts. But I felt better when I left because I was beginning a journey to help me.

And then the very next day, I heard through my ex husband's sister that my ex was in the hospital and had 4 clogged arteries. I felt happy!! ( That's sick in itself) Something bad happened to him.

Then I also heard that she, the New Supply is by his side, living in his house, taking care of the animals, and being the wife that I was never allowed to be. He always went to doctors appts by himself. Even had a face-lift and had a cab take him home and stood in a room for two weeks to heal. I never saw him and I was living with him. Everything was a secret. Like I posted before I had four operations, and he never took me to the hospital, visited me, or brought me home. One was thyroid cancer. Why? because we had a fight and that was my punishment. And here he is, like a normal man, in love, with his beloved by his side and she will now take care of him. The bond will get stronger.

I was sick to my stomach all week. As I write this, he is in OR. I didn't call the hospital, I still have him blocked from my phone, and here I sit picturing in my mind the movie script in my head. He is having stents put in which is no where near like a bypass. He will be fine, and back to a healthy self completely in a week. No more chest pains, which I kept telling him for four years, that he had to go for the angiogram because he had to have had clogged arteries. For her, he did what she probably suggested. While he is in the hospital ...she is in his house. My ex loves to hide money everywhere and would never allow a stranger to be in his home if he is not there. But obviously he has trust in her.

I will not call, it is not my place anymore. I will not make a fool of myself. But I am telling you, that the images in my mind, the jealousy is out of control. How sick, am I? Can't wait to go to therapy this week.

There has got to be a way, to pull ourselves out of this. Here is what goes through my mind though. Are we now getting too comfortable in this misery? Is being a victim the role of choice now that we are out of it?
Do we hang on to all of this crap because if we let it go....really let it go, ....it's like it never happened and we so want to believe that it did happen, he really once was in our lives and he did love us, and then he was evil BUT HE DID LOVE US.

I don't know, but I am starting to think that maybe we don't want to end the pain ourselves. We are not pushing hard enough to forget and get better. At least I have a sneaky suspicion that this is what is going on with me.

Then my jealousy turns the whole script around and I say to myself, but now you know what a miserable person he is when he has a cold. Being in the hospital for the very first time in his life, having to eat a completely different way, won't he be the most moody and won't the good guy mask come off. Oh, good, now she is stuck caring for him, and she will see him for who he is.

Next second I turn it around and say, "But will she really be loving and caring...that he will think she is some kind of saint and love her so much because she was there for him. Does he remember that he never allowed me to be there for Him? No he won't...

There has got to be a way for us to climb out of this hole. I don't like being at the bottom of the well anymore.

Well I think we were trained that way by them, the big problem with narcissists is that they have very contradictory and confusing behaviour, the amount of time I spent dwelling on what he said or meant or what he didn't say. The more mistreated we are the more we obsess about this person, we wonder how do we make it better, we lose ourselves in their behaviour, we start to believe we are to blame for everything so we keep clinging to them.

Then there's the isolation because they want to be the only person in your world.

I think a lot about this stuff because I keep asking myself the same question 'why?' I am also tempted to check on him, it's like an obsession. But then I remember that it is really just common sense that victims of narcissists are like this, they made us crave them, They made themselves centre of our world, the number of nights I cried for him, the arguments, the make ups and break ups. That's a whole lot of of emotion !

That's my theory anyhow, not scientific but that's how I think it goes with these people. We all orbit round the sun, if the sun disappeared would we notice? Hell yes! The narcissist made himself the sun in our universe, he was all we could see.

And they love the idea that we are obsessed with them. That in itself makes me pause when I'm tempted to check on him. Who the hell is this guy???? An abuser!!! He ain't special! Just keep moving and don't look back x

I agree with all said already..and very well said...I'd just add...that we fall in love with a mirage. Someone we are fooled into thinking is a good guy. We end up knowing much better. But it doesn't mean that we can turn the love off fully for the imaginary guy. we invest so much in every way in the mirage.

When the penny finally drops, that he is in fact not good..AT all. The love finally dies. The interest and the and any obsession.

Sorry to say it wasn't anything to do with love, but only control. Love feels right and good. So long as we hold onto that faulty thinking, we will keep the untruth alive somehow.

The new woman is the new source of supply, and needs pitying more than anything. She got exactly the same guy, no matter how fake a sweet charmer he starts out to be.

This piece is quite good I think?....as we all know the dreams and the feelings after leaving..Whatever level or stage we're at?...

'BUT I LOVE HIM & MISS HIM!!

"Now you've done it. Forced to choose between your own sanity, your future and sense of self, and the arbitrary, absurdly selfish whims of a mentally ill narcissistic abusive controlling manipulator, you've chosen the high road to peace and clear thinking. You've broken up with the abuser/narcissist.

"IT'S NOT TOO LATE!!!! CALL HIM!!! Its too hard!! Yes, he'll wiggle with glee at your showering him with this attention and taunt you with ambivalence or outright haughty insults as punishment for your taking control of your own life, but hang in there! You might still be able to resume your place in his whacked psychoworld!

"OK. I know. You miss him. We all know how that feels. But, now, let's take a peek at this 'missing' thing.

"I assume we all agree that with Narcissists, we're generally dealing with two people: The guy he is, and the guy he pretended to be. You miss one of them. I take it we all know which one.

"Pretend Guy is gone. Deceased. This hurts. This really hurts. It needs to be mourned. In addition to the loss of Pretend Guy, you've got mucho grande abuses heaped on you by Actual Guy. Topping off this pile of misery and trauma, Actual Guy and Pretend Guy inhabit the same body. Only another psycho wouldn't be thrown into a tailspin by the surreality of it all.

"When he calls you after the breakup, he sounds just like Pretend Guy! You're alive!, you think. You're not dead! Yes, YOU are my true love! You're finally back! Oh, WHEN can I see you? You fall back in'

"Whoa, there, Sister. Let me spare you a tiny bit of hurt here by having us skip ahead to where he slams you again and you wake up in the harsh, cold world of Reality. Things just got even worse. Pretend Guy is still gone, Actual Guy is still abusing you, Pretend Guy and Actual Guy are still the same guy, AND now any baby steps into healing you might have made just got deleted into nothingness.

"And you wonder how he's feeling. Of course you do; not only are you sensitive and caring (Narcissists don't pick hardasses for partners), but you're conditioned to feel that way. The entire relationship was about him and his wants and needs. He literally trained you to think of little else. The real you, the pre-N you, doesn't want an abusive, mentally ill, inconsistent, selfish freak, ridiculous in his pandering for attention, chock full of contempt and anger and inner conflicts that spill out and burn you. The real you wants a real loving partner.

"Hey," I hear one loyal heroine say. "Don't talk about him like that! He's NOT that abusive, not always a selfish freak! He's.... Well, OK, he's an abusive, inconsistent, selfish, ridiculous, freak, but he's MY abusive, selfish freak!" Oh. Sorry. Hey, didn't I see you last week on Jerry Springer?

"For the rest of us, we need to heed the experiences of my online friend L. L's man came on strong. Charming. Wonderful. They married, and he immediately became selfish, cold, and ambivalent about their marriage but refused to leave; he was unempathic, wildly defensive often angry and manipulative. He was a Narcissist. L knew something was morbidly wrong, but she stayed; he'd grow distant, she'd work to make it better. How long did this go on before she read the writing on the wall?

"Friend L stayed with her narcissist for three decades, until she 'selfishly' left him to preserve the remaining shards of sanity she had. I wonder if she has any regrets about leaving and wishes she could have him back, or if she has any general advice for the rest of us. Let's ask her, shall we?

"Alex: Hey, L. Do you have any advice for the gals out here who are on the fence about their Narcissist partners?

"L: G E T! O U T! I WENT THROUGH YEARS OF HELL. I SHOULD HAVE LEFT THIRTY YEARS AGO. I WANT MY THIRTY YEARS BACK!!!

"Hmmm. Well, don't pay any attention to her. She should have stayed for 31 years; maybe THEN he would have changed. Besides, YOUR Narcissist is different! HE'LL get better! He will! I swear! Please, just take him back and get him away from the rest of us...

"When we leave the abusive narcissist, it's because the abuse has gotten intolerable.

Afterwards, when he calls us and pushes the buttons he knows extremely well, the temptation to give him another chance can be overwhelming. We're hurt; we're mad; we want to recoup some of our losses; we love him and want it to work; we just can't believe that anyone would be so warped as to hurt us that way, so we want to give them the benefit of the doubt. All roads point to trying again with the N.

"Except for one. Reality. Truth. Knowledge, and honesty with yourself. Your peace. Your health. This road points in the opposite direction away from the Narcissist. Yes, it's an uphill road, but if you can invest in the climb the view from the top is spectacular.

"Does it seem like if you just invested enough more love and time in the Narcissist, well, it just cant help but to get better?

"Our L spent 30 years wanting her narcissist to get better. I wonder if he started to get a little better around year 10. Or year 17. Year 23? Year 29? Is L. content that she tried hard enough to make the relationship work? Let's ask L.

"Alex: Hey, L, are you glad you spent 30 years in a relationship with a narcissist?

"L: AAAAAUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHHH....... AAAAAAACCCCCCKKKKKKKKHHHHHHHHH....

"Sorry, folks. Apparently I said something wrong. "

~~~~

from: SO... (the book) by Alexandra Nouri

I have read the stories of many others who as you say stayed too long - those who were married and had children before they really saw and I know I am fortunate that my encounter was brief but I am amazed daily at how significant it has become. You are correct on some level - I am keeping myself in this hole because I can't quiet the WHY and I seek to find answers. Part of it is because nothing like this has ever happened to me and I still can't believe where he took me and the pure manipulation that was used. Even times I thought he was being nice or considerate had ulterior motives.He was a taker and and miserable, so miserable he wanted to die and people don't just change.Even while he's been with OW he has shown nothing but that side of him So this other person he appears to be with the OW is just baffling.

From reading much on this subject the only explanation I can grasp ( and I hate that I need one but I do) is that somehow she sees him as the man he wants to be or pretends to be and so he feels like that man. She admires him. She needs him. He is more educated than she is and makes more money, has more life experience. I was more educated than he was, made more money, had life experience. I did not need him though he wanted me to be dependent on him (his words). What I reflected back was his short comings. I had what he wanted so he tried to either take it from me (money) or knock me down so he could feel superior.

There's no way she hasn't seen the dark side of him - she must just react differently. Maybe it's as simple as there is a lid for every pot - even Ns.

Its a fallacy that the new woman is getting it right with him. It really is. It may seem good early days..but the exact same guy will end up creating the exact same issues, and problems, and heartache. It may take a few years, but it will always end up the same. The controlling abusive behaviours, will always out in the end.

Narcissists invariably abuse, even if it is by lying devaluing discarding or the many other head wrecking things they do. This piece says it as it is:

If Only I Knew WHY He Abuses!

Are you driving yourself crazy trying to figure out why he does it or did it? I've never read an article on any domestic violence website about this phenomenon.

Women can continually obsess, even after the relationship is over about 'why' he did it.

Women can drive themselves UP THE WALL trying to understand why.

Women feel as if they understood why then the pain would end.

You may ask yourself: why did he hit me? why did he yell at me? why did he call me names? Why did he put me down? Why did he neglect me or abuse me emotionally or sexually? Why did he treat me so badly when I was so good to him? And some women take it a step further and don't even ask themselves these questions but immediately blame themselves saying, "He did it because I deserved it."

First of all, let me point out the answer to these questions is not because of anything you did or said.

A man who doesn't abuse would leave you if he thought there was something "wrong" with you.

However, abusive men most often stick around and abuse you and he will always, always blame it on you.

So remember, it is never and was never YOUR fault.

Abusers abuse.

That is who he is and that's all there is to it.

Perhaps he was abused as a child?. Perhaps he is a psychopath suffering from a personality disorder?. (For which, by the way there is no cure or even effective treatment, so don't get your hopes up).

Perhaps he grew up watching his father abuse his mother. There are many reasons he may abuse.

But knowing the answer is NOT going to end your pain, trust me.

What will help you heal is acceptance.

Accept he did what he did. Accept that you did indeed put up with it but that doesn't at all mean you deserved it.

Accept that he is an abuser and there is or was 'nothing' you could have done to stop him.

Accept the relationship as a big mistake and vow to yourself never to put up with abuse again.

Abusers who complete programs for men who abuse are most often known to NOT change.

Abusers almost always and I mean always abuse 'all' women in their lives.

So, don't go wondering if he is going to be better to someone else because she's somehow "better" than you.

He is going to abuse any woman he dates because that is who he is. This is a plain and simple known fact.

Stop trying to figure it out. Accept it.

Remember the Following:

Abusers never change.

Abusers will abuse all women in their lives, not just you.

Abusers do not abuse because of something you said or did.

Abusers always blame the abuse on the victim.

It is never, ever your fault.

All adults are responsible for their actions.

HE OWNS his actions.

You are all correct and we are all great people. I have a good life and in all other areas I am at peace but this - I want that validation that I wasn't the only sucker to fall for his BS - I'm not the only one who financed part of his life - I'm not the only one he was hot and cold with - not the only one that sat listening to his endless stories - or showed up over and over because he said he was having a panic attack - not the only one he broke promises to - not the only one whose friends thought there was something "off" about him, etc., etc.

I think this is bothering me today bc he has now been with OW or NS for 1 year. I heard through mutual friends (that can't believe it either) they celebrated and he bought her something engraved to commemorate it. Which means he actually did something thoughtful and spent money. Things he seemed incapable of before. The person I had the pleasure of knowing was always broke, never bought me a thing unless he was hammered and trying to be a big shot, every outing and event he was either anxiety ridden to the point of having a panic attack and had to be calmed by me or we'd have to leave or he would get smashed and then needed a babysitter, or would become depressed and brought to tears. We had very few "normal" outings. Even just hanging out at home involved me doing something for him - cooking (which I don't mind), helping with school project or rubbing his back until my shoulders were sore. He would often promise to do something nice for me in return or say that we would go somewhere or another but it never happened. That's no mistake - you have to TRY to be that selfish and I know to this day he thinks nothing was ever wrong - even as he is paying back the money he owes me (shocking) he still doesn't think there was anything wrong with asking for it in the first place - oh wait I'm sorry did I say asking? I meant completely manipulating and lying and playing the sympathy card in order to get it. Wow, amazing I can still be this angry.

You have every right to feel angry. You were used and duped by the manipulating creep.
Mines NS is still apparently in rise tinted glasses phase.. Though my son mentioned that he had taken to bed for three days with migraines. I'm way past focusing on him now but have to admit that dud amuse me. The migranes were great cop out passes and always seemed to happen when I needed him the most. I actually pity his new woman hugely. I know that she has got the exact same guy.

He live bombed her initially and took her on fancy holidays etc.. But I know that his real self is by now leaking out allover the place.

Please believe me.. it might not seem possible now, but you will teach a stage where you'll be grateful that someone else is now dealing with his crap.

You will feel huge relief the further he goes into your last and out of your focus.

It can be one step forward and two steps back some days, but one day you'll realise that you've taken two steps forward and won't have wasted a moments thought or energy on him.

There is freedom and recovery ahead. It does take time but you will get there. Hugs x

Excuse typos!

Ladies, I must say we are getting very good at looking deep within ourselves and putting questions, thoughts and sharing amazing pieces for us all to ponder. I feel close to you all from all the posts that we shared.

So much pain to get out, from all of us, so much insecurities, doubts and questions. Thank god for this forum because to speak so honestly in front of our family and friends could not happen. They wouldn't,t understand.. They didn't live it. Waiting for the day when we are all healed and we graduated back into life healthy, happy and when the narcisstic man that we loved is a distant memory. Three cheers to that!

Thank you. I want that - I want all of it. I fully admit I want the validation that he is who I saw but I also want to forget his name. When someone mentions him or asks about him I want to have to think and try to remember they way you would someone you went to high school with but didn't know that well - you can't quite picture their face - sounds familiar but nope, don't remember. I know I need to put the work in for that day to come - I have to push him further and further out of my mind but now that is not easy to do - because he is paying me back money he borrowed, every month I get a reminder and while I am both surprised and glad he is actually following through with this one thing - it ties me to him and reminds me of all the things he didn't do and why he owes me in the first place. How he took advantage of someone offering friendship.