You've found the place for people like us. A club no one wants to be in, no one ever expected to be in...but it sure is a relief to finally not be alone.

I'll just list out the stuff you mentioned that I can relate to the most, that seem most familiar to me:

Son was a great kid
Husband is avoiding it as much as he can
It all falls on you
Son is avoiding you/pushing you away despite your support
Brother and sister used to be so close, best friends
Family used to be super-close, did a lot together
Now it's all gone (and that's so hard to take)
Stuck between his side and hers, legally as well as personally
Afraid and ashamed to tell others
Having to live a charade that life is normal
An unreal sense of "this is my life now."

It would be really good if you can start getting some help to care for yourself and have someone to talk to. I hope this group can help, help you know that you're not alone or weird or wrong in reacting the way you are. It can be really important to have a counselor for yourself, especially if your husband isn't supportive and you don't have others you can talk to about it. A counselor/therapist will keep everything confidential, which is gold at a time like this. It might take awhile to get in with someone and find someone you "click" with so the sooner you reach out, the better. Most places are doing therapy over secure Zoom connections now if they can't in person.

mosac.net has info that can be really helpful in understanding both yourself and your daughter.

I just started collecting stories of parents who have a child who sexually abused another. Here are the responses I've collected so far if you want to read them: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1DGB5QnJRU5t2r7G-RNFOtrQe_zueK2XZm1zoQbSY0rk/edit?usp=sharing
If you want to fill out the survey it is at https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSdzqk6yTaEY2oGw3JgwBjRPYUHY8iAfTiXLihsWOWoDNwB1qg/viewform?vc=0&c=0&w=1&flr=0&gxids=7628

Thank you very much. I spent the night before I posted reading everyone’s posts and my heart broke for every single one. I’ve been on the survey as well so I think I will indeed fill it out.
As far as getting help, my kids psychologists are actually a married couple. It wasn’t intended to take them to the same office it’s just my sons lawyer recommended his (he has dealt with this before and works with offenders so thought it would be good for the judge to see) and while I was there I researched his wife he deals with sexually abused victims. She also seemed like a perfect fit got my daughter. They have spoken regarding the family doing a session or 2 AFTER the 2 kids do counselling together. My daughter said she is not ready, does not want to see him at all so all I can do is support her and hope one day she will take the leap to trust again and sit face to face with him. Anyway just really wanted to reply and say thank you to you. As I read every story in here I noticed it was always yourself replying and holding out a hand to help people like us back up. It did not go unnoticed and I just wanted to say that I think your family and all of us members on here are very lucky to have you.

Thanks, that is so sweet of you to notice and I appreciate the compliment. As you can imagine I haven't gotten a lot of pats on the back here at home in the last few years.

I hope and pray that your daughter will eventually be ready to do face to face counseling and do some degree of reconciliation with your son. Our kids did several sessions of joint counseling and it was really helpful for both. But of course they both had to want to do it, and they both had to be willing to do their own work in preparing for it. I have a rock under my pillow that I saved from a retreat where an elder woman talked about her life experiences and she gave the advice, "Sometimes you've done all that you can do, and you just have to sit back and wait." I knew at the time that was God's word for me but it's probably good I didn't have any idea to what extent. Basically now I'm waiting for my son to be ready to reconcile with me. So I hold the rock under my pillow when I'm lying in bed and getting anxious about it and it helps to calm me.

Maybe I need to find a rock too...
I hope your son realizes one day what is important- the support of family. I hope this for myself as well. I wonder if perhaps we might bring guilty feelings to the surface for them and if they don’t come around they can pretend it’s not there. I’ve spoken to him a few times on the way to therapy and with his psychologist asking if he’s upset with us since he seems to not want anything to do with us. He never texts back and when his dad has contacted him to do things (there’s a no contact order for my daughter) he never responds either. When my daughter does leave for a few hours (which is hardly ever) I quickly text my son to come home. I feel guilty going behind my daughters back but not sure what else to do to see him. He usually does come as we only get to see him maybe once a week, but he is still so distant. It is frustrating and so sad to me and I’m not sure what to do to make it better. I think he feels deep down we are choosing my daughter since he’s the one who is not allowed home if she’s here. Thankfully it never came down to kicking one or the other out since he and myself were having issues right before DNA came in (I was very distant and cold to him as I knew based on his actions and mannerisms that he had done this) and I kind of checked out being a good parent. Didn’t care which courses he took for school and didn’t put really any restrictions on him at all. Looking back I know I let him go hang out with his friends and dropped the ball big time as it was easier for me not to be around him. Once my oldest daughter talked to me about it (she is 23 and lives about 15 minutes away with her fiancée) I realized she was right and I was not acting like a good parent. I pulled my socks up and started to be the helicopter mom with school I’ve always been but the damage was done. He packed up and moved a couple weeks before the results were in. I guess it is what it is. I am trying to have a relationship with him and he says he’s not upset with us at all but his actions show different. I sometimes think his guilt is to much to be around us. At least that’s my guess. I am in the process of looking for an apartment for him and my husband and I (we will take turns spending nights). Then at least we can see him. I just miss him so much. It’s just so much with therapy x2, defence lawyer and now apartment. It will be a struggle but I know it’s worth it. I need to try something...
I just got a call from his defence lawyer saying the crown has offered a deal of 30 days in juvenile detention and 2 years probation. Usually for a case like this where we live it is mandatory counselling and 5 years probation since he has no past issues, has never been in trouble and has no criminal record. His lawyer was surprised that they were wanting custody, but I didn’t tell him it was because my daughter had already spoken to the prosecutor and requested some sort of jail. She is so angry that a “slap on the wrist” and don’t do that again was ridiculous. I’ve spoken to my son and he has agreed to take the deal. I was relieved. I also felt that he deserves something and 30 days is minor (although not to my son). I felt it was the best for both- she got a little satisfaction and he got minimal time. I asked him to call his lawyer back since it has to come from him but when he told his lawyer he would accept the deal the lawyer said let’s hold off. If he gets a good judge he may not have to do any time at all. I was flabbergasted! Like what?! I wanted to scream no you do the time. I mean now how is this going to look to my daughter?? He’s done this to her and can’t even serve 30 days?! After he hung up with the lawyer I told him I didn’t think I would be able to give him the best advice for him. Perhaps if the victim was anyone other than my daughter I would have agreed with the lawyer, but when the victim is also your child I needed to do what was right for both. I explained how him fighting to not serve 30 days would look for his sister. He said he understood and said he never thought of that. I’m worried that his lawyer will try to talk him out of taking the offer. I feel if that happens my daughter will never forgive him. I’m so tired of this! I pray he does the right thing even though I know he’s scared. His psychologist gave him pointers on how to get through the 30 days and it didn’t sound like a great place. I just hope he accepts it and does it. I’m trying to focus on my daughter right now. She is struggling and depressed. Was such a sweet, fun, the life of the party before but now spends all of her time in her room and does not see or talk to any friends. Covid doesn’t help either. I have showed her tonight this site (not this group) but that she can join a group for victims to give her support. I hope she does. I guess I can’t make my son but do you think I should just stay out of it? It seems ridiculous that I pay thousands and thousands to hire a big wig lawyer (I was worried he may be moved to adult court) and now when he’s doing his job I don’t want him to. I just not sure what to do. Any advice would be appreciated.

Wow that is hard. I can imagine a lot of people would say stay out of it, it's between your son and his lawyer etc, but realistically, how can you not try to do what you feel is best for both of your kids and your family's future? The legal system isn't focused on their mental health at all.

Just wondering what country you're in since you said the Crown--Canada, UK, somewhere else? I'm in the US so I don't know exactly how your system works. But it seems like in your world same as ours, that a defense lawyer's job is to get the best possible legal outcome for their client, period. That leaves them with a set of ethics that doesn't jive very well with mental health or common sense or even basic morality sometimes. That said, ultimately the lawyer has to follow your son's wishes, even if it's not what he recommends. I guess you know both of those already.

I realize that even if you're paying, your son is his client, but I do think it's appropriate for you to ask the lawyer to meet with you or talk to you on the phone so you can explain how this is affecting your family and why your son will hopefully just plead to what they've offered. Maybe that will get him to back off a bit on pressuring your son to push the envelope legally--but only maybe, I'm sure if he's a hot shot then it's ingrained in his head to keep pushing as hard as he can for his client. You can hope that he can take a step back and consider your family's future and your son's mental health. With your daughter being an adult, I'm guessing only she talks to the prosecution?

I totally can understand where you're coming from though, we were also in the middle hiring a lawyer for our son, who was about to be charged as an adult for behaviors he did while a young teen (they had to go with the age he was when the case was opened, not when the crime occurred). We would go from meeting with his lawyer to meeting with the victim services for the prosecution. It's such an awkward situation to be in. We also had a period where only one of the kids could be home at the same time but luckily it was only a few weeks and then he left for college. I would look for her to bring the car home, park it, go for a walk, then tell him to hurry and get out to the car while she was gone--and if he was slow I'd have to text her to take another lap around the block. All while not trying to act like anything was amiss in front of their little brother, who they weren't ready to tell yet. All I can say is I wish those days had never happened, but I'm glad at least they are past.

There are so many unknowns, no clear path forward, no right or wrong in your situation, so do your best not to second guess yourself whatever you do. You know in your heart you are doing the best you can and that you truly love both your kids. Hopefully someday they will be able to look back and see that.

I agree it seems like the guys' guilt and shame may be what causes them to withdraw from us or push us away. I try to put myself in his shoes but it is almost harder and more painful than trying to put myself in hers. I have heard that men tend to display depression more as anger than as sadness, and that would make sense too.

Yes I agree. The anger seems to make much more sense. Btw, we are in Canada.
I thank you for the advice. I’m trying really hard to stay neutral and support both and as much as none of us want to see him do any time I do think it’s the best for both kids. I will call the lawyer tomorrow as I speak to him frequently. My husband is already coming up with a story why he’s not around, although with covid no one sees each other anyway. The lawyer seems very sympathetic to our situation so who knows. I guess we will see. My son seemed to agree with me and my husband and I had plans to pick up my son this weekend snd take him for a drive to talk to him about why this is the right thing to do. Unfortunately he left town with his girlfriend so we were not able. I do not think there will be much convincing needed.
How did your kids benefit from counselling together? Are they able to be in the same room and be ok with each other? I think if mine could just see each other and talk that they would be able to heal somewhat. The longer they are apart the more my daughter seems to hate him. The crown has told my daughter that there will be a no contact order in place forever or until she has it changed. I’m worried she will not want to do this anytime soon and I’m on a time crunch to say. My oldest daughter is getting married July and both the siblings are in the wedding party. My daughter has already asked the crown for that specific day to lift the no contact ban when the crown offered the deal. My fear is if they haven’t spoken before the wedding all hell will break loose and it’ll be a disaster. My daughter since being sexually assaulted has been self medicating with alcohol and has only recently (within the last month and a half) quite. I again couldn’t help or support her like I would have liked since she went to school in a different area. I’m terrified that if they don’t get help with at least one or two sessions she will go off the rails the evening of the wedding, especially having alcohol there. As you know with having all our family there and friends I am terrified. Was there any way you helped the kids to get ready for counselling or did they do it on their own? Did you and your husband participate as well or just the kids? I was shocked to read your above message where you say that you would text your daughter to drive around another lap, etc. This is exactly what it is in our house. I am sorry you had to go through that. It is honestly the worst thing parents can go through. My daughter left for a couple hours Christmas Day so we could see our son. He wasn’t ready to go when she was home ( although I was pushing him out almost) so she went to the garage and sat in her vehicle in there. It was so sad it was the worst day ever. It was a horrible Christmas not having our family all together and then on top of it rushing him to get out and asking her to waste time. So exhausting... are yours on a no contact order as well? I just want them to be able to be under the same roof so I can see both of them. I know it’s greedy but it is my only wish right now.

llama so sorry to hear about your situation. I too have beat myself up trying not to help my son too much and make my daughter feel like I am taking his side over hers. Honestly I wish i would have found out when they were still young as I feel I could of handled things with more of a stern hand. It wasn't until my kids were 33 and 20 that I found out something had happen.

But like you the only ones that know are my children and I dread the rest of my family finding out. Like you said I know what he did was wrong but I do not want him having to live through the hateful looks and remarks from people he has known and loved his entire life. So we live like nothing has happened when it comes to the rest of the family.

Though my son being older I gave him the choice to either get therapy or go to jail. He is going through therapy now but my daughter refuses to go talk to anyone.

Its so hard because up until the night I was told they were still laughing together the day prior. We were all so close so it confuses me so badly that one day everything was great and everyone was friends and the next day this horrific truth came out. Their was no denial from my son about what happened and he said he was glad it was finally out because it was a weight he carried for years about what he'd done.

My daughter said she thought it was just a bad dream that she kept having so she pushed it off because she didn't think it could ever be true, but the night she confided in me I just grabbed my chest and cried because I had this sick feeling it was and when I asked my son he admitted and confessed.

My daughter wasn't raped but she was violated and she was only 3 at the time. My heart breaks everyday knowing that my daughter has this vision in her head of her brother trying to put is parts in her mouth. I cant even begin to imagine after the closeness that they have always had how she feels now after finding out that her own brother is the reason she has this reoccurring dream. She don't look at him anymore, when he speaks to me she looks away. I can tell by her face she is trying to just ignore him but I also see the hurt in her eyes from the trust that was broken.

There are days when I cant stop thinking about what happened and want to just punch the hell out of him and days when I see him closing himself off to the rest of the house and my heart breaks for him as well.

As brknhrt has said we are "stuck in the middle" of son and daughter and right and wrong and its the worst place to be. I have no one to talk to because I cant bear to hear any bad remarks about my son even though I know it would be justified, so I keep this a secret from my family and feel so isolated at times.

I hope that all goes well for you and your family and hope that someday things will be a little easier for your daughter and for your son

Like you I hate that the closeness is gone between them because they were always there for each other and now they are strangers to each other and that parts just kills me.

I’m so sorry for your situation. That you are in the middle is so hard. Sometimes I’d like to just take my daughters side and let my husband deal with our son, although I would never do that. When I was talking to him the other day about the no contact being there forever he seemed floored. I think he thought when the probation was over the no contact would be lifted to. I told him no and that it would be up to her to lift it if she ever wanted to. He then asked me how his sister felt about that. I told him as gently as I could that she was ok with having no contact. If I would have blown a breath on him he would have fallen over. He looked so devastated. I didn’t tell him how much she hates him, wants nothing to do with him and has even had a nightmare she killed him. He is hurting enough. He told the psychologist that he felt he doesn’t deserve her forgiveness. It breaks my heart. But then my roles switch and I think to myself “what the hell do you expect?!?” Just so unbelievable to be torn. Did your kids ever go counselling together amommieslove? I’m hoping mine will one day as I know deep down they miss each other very much. Thinking of you and the tough times you are going through. As brknhrt said that boys are definitely portray their emotions differently than girls.
I would have loved to go after my son, yell, scream slap him but I had to try to stay neutral until DNA came in otherwise it would be like calling one of the other a liar. I feel I’ve missed that boat to explode at him. We were worried he would harm himself so I took the approach to be gentle and loving with him and said I would always stand by him and support him. I just wish I could have taken some anger out by telling him exactly how I feel but that ship has long sailed. It seems now when we do get to see him the rest of the family (husband and older daughter) sweep it under the rug. No one talks about it with him. He just comes over once every week or two for dinner and to play games with us. I feel so disloyal to my daughter. It’s just all sometimes to much to be the one who has to be the nurturer for everyone.

I feel the weight you are both carrying. I hope this board is helping some with the isolation piece. I feel so much relief and a connection I've been craving when you both write phrases that I could have written myself.

Not being able to show or maybe even feel anger for your son, having the anger overshadowed by fear or empathy or worry for him, I so relate to that. I've often felt that I never had a chance to be angry at my son, and I've puzzled at my lack of anger from the beginning, sometimes felt guilty about it, wondered if in some way he needs me to get angry at him. I was out of town when the authorities came to our door and found out what was going on a week later when I returned. So it was all in one breath from my husband that I found out what he had done, and also that he was being investigated and would be referred for charges as an adult. I never had the chance to feel anger at him, or sadness for my daughter, before fear of what the Law would do to his life was piled on it. And there was also fear that he might commit suicide, fear that she would never want to see him again, fear that our family would be forever ripped apart, fear that other people would find out....and that level of fear just sucks the oxygen out of the room, takes over your whole brain. Six months later when his lawyer finally made an informal plan with the DA to proceed without charging him as long as he was making progress in therapy, I finally felt relief from the fear of the Law, and that's when the weight of the sadness of it all finally hit me. I've felt moments of anger, betrayal, disgust, profound disappointment toward my son, but never the pure rage that I'm sure I would feel if it had been literally anyone else.

Gotta go shovel snow, I'll post with more later.

Actually I think I displaced a lot of my anger at him onto the authorities. Of course they did bring a lot of that on themselves but probably not as much as I felt.

Llama, you asked about my kids' joint counseling and if they're still under no contact. Because our son was never formally charged (thank you God!), the no contact order we had was through Child Protective Services and their safety plan. On paper it was "voluntary," but in reality it was only as voluntary as "your money or your life" is voluntary. We were under the supervision of CPS for about 8 months total. By that time the kids had started some joint therapy, and had permission from their therapists and a plan to be home together sometimes with both of us there. By the time about 10 month had passed they had a plan in place for him to live at our house during the summer with her there too--their rooms were on different levels and they could use different bathrooms. By the time a year had gone by, our son had done a formal apology in therapy, the kids had been given the assignment to do some fun things in public with just the two of them, and they both seemed a lot more relaxed after that. That was the same time that the DA decided to drop the criminal case so that's when we really felt free to do what we wanted with no one looking over our shoulder. Their joint therapy sessions were just with their therapists and each other, not with us. We got some updates from the therapists, especially hers since she was still a minor, but we did understand that they were teens and would want to keep a lot confidential. Later on we did a few family therapy sessions with the two of them, their therapists, and us as parents--but then her therapist retired, and a couple months later family therapy shut down due to Covid, and now neither of the kids are interested even if the clinics to open up for in-person again.

Apparently that was considered lightning-fast progress to the social workers & other authorities involved. Given that our daughter had already thought things through to the point that she was wanting to forgive her brother, I'm sure she was more ready to see him than most. She was a really mature 16 year old and was focused and movitated and worked through therapy fairly quickly. She hadn't developed any secondary addictions, although she did have PTSD stuff--dreams, anxiety, depression, all of which she hid very well. Her brother also admitted his guilt and tried to apologize from the beginning. He got right into therapy too; his therapy went more slowly but I guess partly because he went so in-depth and took everything so seriously, in addition to having an intellectual mind that bascially challenged and demanded proof for everything his therapist told him. Without all that in place, and especially without their younger brother as a motivation to reunite (he would be so disappointed if they couldn't do things all together), I'm sure it would have taken longer for them to be ready to reunite.

My daughter was against the no-contact order from the beginning, it was a huge inconvenience and stress to her and I know she felt bad about the stress it put on the whole family--but the therapists and social workers just did what the protocol said they should do. I just wanted them out of it so we could let our daughter decide how to handle things--I would have done whatever she chose. The first couple weeks after she gave her testimony at the child advocacy center, she said she didn't feel like seeing her brother because it would be "awkward." So we got him an AirBnB to stay at for the last couple weeks before he headed to college.

The main deadline we had to deal with (like your daughter's wedding) was the Christmas holiday, which also meant our son's first winter break from college. It was about 4 months after disclosure. I had been hoping they could be approved for him to stay at our house with a safety plan in place. Our daughter said she was ready and wanted to see him, we knew our youngest son was really missing his brother and wanted to be with him over his break, and we knew that if his brother wasn't here for Christmas we would definitely have some explaining to do. Plus, where would our offending son stay--no way was I going to have him spend Christmas alone in an AirBnB when I had seen that he was visiting suicide support sites already. So, we decided together with the two oldest kids to go behind the backs of the authorities and have him stay at our house anyway for the whole month. As our daughter put it, "I'd rather lie to them than lie to my little brother." So we planned an alibi and had an official line to tell them about where he was. We got away with it, my daughter told not just me but a supportive friend that the best thing about break was seeing her brother again, I was so full of joy to have my family all together under one roof again and all around the same table. The only regret I have about it, is that sometimes I wonder if my daughter was saying it was OK for the sake of the family and for my sake, and maybe not in touch with whether she was actually ready or not deep down. Given that she was also not ready to tell her younger brother what was going on yet (they did eventually, when she had processed more and he had become more mature), it was really a choice of which was worse.

I can see better now, looking back after doing my own work toward forgiveness (of the authorities, where my anger had been directed) and trying to understand my son's anger at me, that feeling and expressing anger at the way you were hurt is a necessary step in the process of healing. It's not healthy to stay there forever but you can't really skip it either and heal on a deep level. Hopefully your daughters will be ready to be with your sons and get to the point of being ready to reconcile, but it will have to be on their timeline. If they're not ready to heal, there's sadly not a lot you can do to jump start the process.

Another thing that my daughter's counselor explained was that when a girl is violated, she loses control of herself, her body, etc in such a profound way. Any way you can give her control now, even in seemingly small things (for example, who sits where when they did their joint therapy sessions) is a step toward restoring her sense of control. So it's really important to let her decide the timeline for reunification and reconciliation, no matter how badly we want to see it as moms. Like I said, I hope I didn't pressure her to do it too soon. (But using this logic, shouldn't SHE have been able to decide instead of the CPS supervisor?)

I always thought my kids were so close too. I tried so hard to help them get along and nurture their relationship with each other. I had complimented my son on what a good big brother he was (which must have felt like pouring salt in a wound) and told them both how happy I was that they got along so much better than me and my brother. It was such a heartbreak to see that gone. It felt like a garden that I had planted and nurtured for years being found poisoned and dead. I could only hope that some bit of the roots had survived and it would come back in some form.

I know that was long but a couple more things I noticed in amommieslove post.

I noticed you said that you grabbed your chest when you had a gut feeling that your daughter's dream was real. I noticed several times when I was telling my story or hearing really bad news that I was involuntarily holding my fist over my chest. I figured it must mean something. The closest I could come was that it was a sign that I was feeling like my heart, the most vulnerable part of my soul, was threatened, and subconsciously I was trying to protect it. It was involuntary in the same way that looking down and not being able to look someone in the eye when talking about shameful stuff was involuntary. It's really striking that you included that same detail, at the moment when your greatest fear was really hitting you.

This may be a hard thing to hear, but I know in my state's legal definition, and I think in the view of most therapists and advocates, asking for oral sex falls under the definition of rape. It might not do the physical damage that penetration can, but the psychological damage can been just as bad if not worse.

Also you mentioned how puzzling it was to you that your daughter and son were laughing and getting along great one night and the next she realized her dream was based in reality and it was all over. I also couldn't understand initially why they would want my daughter to be apart from my son, even why she would want to be apart from him at least temporarily, when they had already lived in the same house for 5 years after it stopped happening. In her case, the first time he groped her, she told her self it must have been a dream because it was so weird and because she knew her brother would never do that. After the second or third time she realized it was real and got angry at him but didn't really know how to tell me about it or tell him to stop. So she had lived with the secret for a long time and been OK being around him and I didn't understand why that had to change. One thing I have learned since is that telling her story to someone else for the first time, especially out loud as in her testimony, made it real to her on a whole new level. And because of the way traumatic memories are processed, her brain reacted as if it had just happened again, even if it had been years ago since the last time. So that explains a bit of the strong emotions, and that they might be unbearable to the point of seeking to numb them through alcohol or whatever. Maybe you guys do get that already but I didn't right away.

I do see a similarity in our son's behavior, even though their actual actions were different, in that they were all young and acted on impulse. I see that as a different thing than an adult who grooms victims and plans ahead how to get them in private to abuse them. Teenage boys are so impulsive by nature, and put that together with their hormones (and the alcohol in llama's case) and stuff like this is not totally surprising. A non-sexual example--our youngest son is a big animal lover and was so excited to get his first pet miniature hamster. I found him one day curled up in a ball on his bed and refusing to move and tried to figure out what was wrong. Finally he sobbed and confessed to me that he had taken his hamster out of her cage and was petting her, and before he knew what he did, he had thrown her up in the air and caught her. He put her right back in the cage but was scared he had killed her. It was almost cute except that he was so upset, and I think above everything he was just freaked out that he had done something that could hurt something he loved so much, and that he did it without even thinking of it, like it was done before he even realized what he did. I know it takes longer to violate a girl than to throw a hamster in the air, but I really wonder if it is the same kind of brainwaves at work. We all do stuff when we're young that we look back and shake our heads and wonder what were we thinking--and the only answer is that we weren't. If my son felt that bad about his hamster, who was running happily in her wheel as he laid there on his bed...I can only imagine how our sons must feel about their sisters, who I'm sure they love. Still, I can only imagine how much pain and betrayal their sisters must feel and how there is simply no way to erase the harm that has been done to them.

I just have to say I think you guys are the best. I look forward to actually checking my emails to see if you two have added anything. I can’t believe my good fortune on actually finding you both. It is such a relief to hear your stories and know I’m not alone, although I feel terrible to say that. You both have given me so much insight to what I may be able to expect. Every time I read a post I cry, my heart breaks for all of us no matter how different our stories are, they are the same.
My daughter had another counselling session today. I did speak to her after on the drive how whenever she is ready that I’d like her to really think about joint counselling. I wish I would have waited until after I read your post though. I know I overstepped my boundaries in discussing with her but I wanted her to know that it would indeed be on her time and whenever she felt she was ready. I had printed her off some papers about reconciliation on the website you had mentioned previously. It stated that carrying anger and not dealing with it would not be healthy. And that sitting with him would not be forgetting but helping her to start healing. There is so much weight to carry hating someone that it drains you mentally and emotionally. I did tell her if she wasn’t ready before the wedding perhaps I would ask him to leave after the first dance. She never said anything but I did not want her to think I would ever make her sit through an evening of watching him have fun and having to deal with that. I would never put a victim in the same room as an offender and expect there to be no depression having to deal with that.
I also told her that I thought she was holding back because she felt guilty. I can’t say enough good things about my daughter. She’s a wonderful, beautiful girl inside and out and has the biggest heart. I know that she feels if she goes to counselling before the sentencing in court ( that is when she will read her victim impact statement. (It is raw and absolutely devastating as she has let me read it). I know she would feel so much guilt about him being sentenced and being incarcerated that it would kill her. She agreed so I understand better why it is she doesn’t feel ready nor want to see him right now. She was told by my older daughter about what the psychologist said to my son about lying to the others why he’s in there (they will try to hurt him if they know he’s a sec offender) and he also told my son that if someone wants to fight to fight. Never not fight. Never back down. And if there’s 3 or 4 that want to jump him to stay closer to the corrections officer in the common areas. My oldest told her sister thinking it would make her feel better that he will be punished and it won’t be easy for him. Now my daughter is upset telling me that did not make her feel better at all. I think she wants him to suffer but when it comes right down to it he is still her brother. It honestly scares the shit out of me as he is my baby boy but I have to trust the system and hope he will be ok. I understand her feelings of guilt. If she did not report this he wouldn’t have been charged. I explained that it was his choice and not hers. I think she hears me but it is hard for her and my heart breaks for her.
She did say on the drive that she knows she has to eventually do counselling with him so I backed off to give her her space. I am going to head upstairs right away to talk with her again and apologize if I came across telling her to do it. I never want to push her to do something she doesn’t want to do. I only want to support her but it is so hard. I would give anything to have done sort of family back. I know I am being selfish, but I can’t seem to help it...
We are going to look for an apartment for my son this weekend. I hss ascent told my daughter our plans as if I do I know she will feel so guilty she would move out so he could move back. I never want that since I know she needs the support of the family she has left to help her, plus I feel that would be like punishing her instead of him. Even while he’s in jail for a month, I feel we can’t delay as once he’s released he will be on probation for 2 years and the probation officer will stop by for unannounced visits, call etc. and the last thing I want is anyone else knowing so we definitely have to be there to deal with that. Plus what would he say to the family he’s been living with where he’s been for a month. It is just so hard to believe this is our lives... brknhrt I did speak with the lawyer today and he said he understood. Said he will need to discuss with my son so he will wait to hear from him. Thank you for that advise. I hope it works out and everyone is on board. My husband spoke to my son today about it and told him there should be no fighting the jail time. My son told him he was never not going to accept the deal. That it is the least he can do for his sister. Anyway I just have to say again a huge thank you and sending you both so many hugs and kisses. I am so thankful to find both of you in a real shitty world.

Good, I'm glad to come here too and have some "pen pals" that understand my world and aren't totally confused or weirded out or overwhelmed by it. I wish so much I would have had something like this sooner in my journey but I appreciate having it now.

Talking while on a drive with your son is also something I did. His college is about an hour away and I'd have to give him rides back and forth for therapy every couple weeks and we had some good talks--and some really awkward, awful ones.

I'm glad your son's attorney is understanding of the whole situation and where you are. Ours was pretty good that way too.

I highly recommend you go over to the board at support-for-families.boards.net where there are multiple moms, wives, sisters, fiances of people on the sex offender registry, as well as a few men who are on the registry some of whom have spend time in jail or prison. They have pretty extensive resources posted on surviving jail/prison when you're in for a sex offense, and people you can ask. Do you know what kind of facility your son would be sent to, being a juvenile and having a rather short sentence? I'm not familiar with the Canadian prison system or SO registry. Most people on that board are in the US but not all.

By the way, my daughter is hoping to go to college in Canada and become a permanent resident there someday, hopefully even a citizen eventually. She just feels the "niceness" of Canada fits her personality better and she's pretty freaked out by US politics lately--and personally I am too, I wouldn't mind knowing we have a family member to run north to if things got really out of hand here!

My daughter is also amazingly empathetic, compassionate, and generous. I know how much she enjoyed and delighted in her younger brother, 4 years difference, and how protective she has always been of him. (One reason we didn't want to tell him the news early on--we knew he would go to her for comfort and she really didn't need to take that on.) I can only imagine if it had been him who harmed her, how much weirder that would have been.

It is almost impossible to accurately anticipate what our daughters want, need, feel, etc. I'm guessing they are also in turmoil within themselves with all sorts of conflicting feelings, feeling scared for their brothers and one minute, in a rage the next, shame and embarrassment, worried and guilty about the consequences to the rest of the family from their decision to tell the truth, etc. It helped me accept my own conflicting feelings when I realized there is a word for feeling two opposite things at once--"ambivalence." Somehow just having a word to label it and know it's a thing was helpful in allowing myself to feel that way.

I remember trying to shelter my daughter from knowing what potential consequences our son would face legally, and trying to shelter him from what she was going through too. My daughter would be mad at me if I guessed wrong or even if I asked when she felt I should have known what to do. I don't feel quite so bad knowing you guys have struggled with the same thing. I know at one point I asked her, "Do you want to know what's going on legally with your brother?" and she said yes, in kind-of a "well, duh" manner. I was afraid she would pile extra guilt on herself if they really came down on him.

I think it's natural for our kids to want to feel understood, just like we also crave to be understood in all this--and maybe part of that is that they react in anger when we can't read their minds. Even if they realize intellectually that we didn't know what was happening at the time enough to prevent it, they are still hurt and angry and those things just aren't rational.

When you said, "It's hard to believe this is our lives," that sounds exactly like how I felt for at least a year. Like it just couldn't really be happening in this universe. I guess part of healing is getting used to the reality that your world and your history really does include this stuff. Now it's like I have to remind myself that there was a time I didn't know all this yucky stuff I know now, not just knowing what my son did but also just knowing basic stuff about sexual abuse in general, the criminal justice system, etc.

I was upset at my oldest daughter for telling my daughter what kind of juvenile facility my son will be going to. And what his psychologist told him to expect there. I also wanted to shield her as I knew it would upset her. My oldest said she told her to try to make her feel better since she was having a bad day. No one really knows the right steps to take, the right thing to do, the right things to say.

I hope your daughter does come to Canada. We are really nice!! Lol. The political issues US are having is crazy but it always is very entertaining to watch on tv. I’m going to miss your past president for that reason, but I’m sure the drama isn’t over with him. Anyway, take care and hope you are staying warm and not shovelling to much snow.