Sorry I am posting so much. But I have been thinking about something you guys can really help me with. I HONESTLY WANT TO KNOW HOW COMMON IT IS FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN MARRIED FOR MORE THAN 22 YEARS TO NOT HAVE ANY CONTACT AFTER A DIVORCE. You see, I am emotionally stunted I feel. Have only known this one person my whole life. Met him at 20 and been with him for 22 years. He was my first everything: was a virgin (and have never cheated); first boyfriend; first love. I wonder if it is just because of this that I DON'T SEEM TO UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT THAT IT IS NORMAL FOR PEOPLE TO JUST LEAVE AND NEVER WANT TO EVER SEE YOU AGAIN. Am I not grown up enough? I feel that after 22 years of a life shared that he would at least WANT to stay in contact with me. Instead he keeps repeating that he wants to hurry up the divorce and want nothing to do with me. Now, I am doing no contact and I don't want him back. But it's not like I have a choice: HE IGNORES ME AND IS MOVING ON. Is it normal for me to still NOT UNDERSTAND how he can so callously want to move on without even looking back EVER? Wow. IF he wanted to make me feel like nothing (and he does), he has succeeded. I have been erased and I am treated as if I don't exist. I don't get an outlet to even voice my frustration. One would think that it was I who cheated then left the marriage. Instead, he acts like the victim! Am I being abused and I don't even see it?

My first take is that you are behaving normally for someone finding her way through such a huge loss and after being emotionally abused for decades.
My second take is your husband is NOT behaving normally, not for a sentient human being with a conscience, a heart, or a set of ethics. Normal people do not treat others like he does. It may be too soon to be able to look at him with much compassion for you, and I wouldn't blame you a bit, but I'm guessing that some very serious needs went unmet when he was growing up. Abusive narcissists didn't get the love, the discipline, the encouragement, boundaries, freedoms and responsibilities they needed to grow up into healthy human adults. It's really sad. It also does not excuse anything he is doing, but it is a probable reason.
You will continue to grow through this, and come out the other side, wiser, and stronger, however, he will have a much harder road to take, if he ever chooses, to become a real person.
You may feel emotionally stunted right now, but it's just inexperience with others. You are on the road to maturity and wisdom. Keep on walking. You've already made great strides!

it doesn't matter what should be, and what is normal,
it wouldn't make you feel better if he spent three months talking with you to give you closure
you won't get closure or any type of negotiated peace,
you will drive yourself batty worrying about it

my wife did the same, she thinks nada about her adultery, i felt as you
the reality is that nobody cares
it happens all the time and there is a type of bravery assigned by the pc world to the unfaithful
the betrayed are presumed deserving of betrayal and morally flawed
so you won't get closure there


you can't rush the healing it comes when it comes
i think that the healed still experience the rollercoaster ride from time to time

what worked for me: i decided to not try to define
1) how bad i felt --- i gave up wondering if i was at the bottom
2) what the timeline of healing should be--- i gave up wondering if i was behind schedule

both 1&2 worked for me becuase i kept feeling worse about feeling worse and falling behind, so i just said "f" it

3) healing / normal /old me / new me

for me, not having a defined goal of healing let it define itself, it let me grow into whatever i grew into`,pretty much the same me (as in morals, values, ethics) but a me with seasoning/weathering from the shitstorm, not all of which is bad

If it makes you feel any better you are perfectly normal. I felt exactly as you and now 2 years later I can honestly say that it will be OK but I know I will never get closure. We have ZERO contact after a 33 year marriage and I sometimes wonder how he did this and never looked back. You just take the time you need to heal and move on. You already said you are doing this and so embrace the good moments (like you had in class today.) My students keep me going and happy too. There has actually been some good to all of this pain and you will see that later on. Just trust all of us and know it will get better if you want it to. Grieve and mourn what you thought would be and keep moving forward to an even better life.
Hugs,
Donna

I understand. was married 30 years. For 30 years we were a family! How does that stop suddenly? We shared holidays, shared in laws. In 30 years I never saw him cry. He feels no sense of guilt. He watches other people who are being sympathetic or empathetic and mimics them! He does not feel like normal people feel. Once I was gone I was gone. I was history. He has a personality disorder. To him, I am just another person to use and manipulate to get what he wants.
It's so hard to understand. I wish I could find some closure with him but I can't. He doesn't have the capability of feeling the feelings needed.
I just have to let go. All he knows is how to be abusive so it's for my own good. Still waiting for my support from him

Good point! Letting things take the time they need to sort through, and knowing I couldn't circumvent it, saved me endless trouble while grieving losses. It's going to take the time it takes, and happen when it's ready to happen, and although I can read up on things and give myself time and places to work through it, there's no rushing it, no deciding I'll be finished in a month, no knowing when I'll reach a milestone.
Funny, but I usually don't even know I've healed some more until I look around and realize I haven't cried in months, haven't woken up from dreams of what I've lost, haven't spent an afternoon of "what if's" instead of just being present. It's a hoot when I realize how far I've come. Not so much when I realize how much further I have to go.... oh well. I won't run out of things to keep me busy anytime soon!

Yes, PU. I do think that's what's going on. We love these guys and we don't want to believe that they would hurt us but hurt us they do.

I was with my ex from age 13 to age 52. I did have a couple of short relationships early in my 13th year and my ex was not my first kiss, but he sure was my first good kiss:) and first partner in everything after that.

I left him as you know, because I just couldn't be treated the way he treated me any more. During the divorce, he kept saying "If you don't agree to what I'm asking, we won't be able to be friends." He made it pretty clear that he had no intention of being friends, and I saw through his threats. Why would I want to be friends with someone who wasn't my friend in our marriage, and who would threaten me during the divorce? Then he revealed the ow in the middle of our difficult negotiations, and I knew there was no way we would ever be friends.

See the man behind all this, PU. He treated you badly. He abused you emotionally and verbally during your marriage. He is still the same person. He will always be that person. Abusers like to project their own bad onto other people, so he's making out like you're the one who has hurt him and he needs to get away. The truth is, his own guilt is making him try to turn the story around and rehash history so he doesn't feel so bad.

It's not your fault he's the way he is. He chooses to behave the way he does and he chooses what he's saying. And you are way better off without that sort of friend in your life.

No contact is the best way to heal. He thinks he's hurting you some more, getting his last digs in. In fact, he's doing you a huge favour. No contact will help you to heal and move on while he sits in his own mire, and continues to be the pitiful person he is. As I often say to myself and others when I talk about my ex, God help the ow.

love and hugs
kamary

When you are married and divorcing someone with a personality disorder don't take what they say personally. I know firsthand how hard that is to do. Yes, by now your stbx knows you are getting copies of all communication he sends to the mediator. He knows exactly what he is doing. Don't let him get to you. Again I know how hard that is. Find an outlet to let out the hurt and frustration. I would kick a plastic feed bucket up and down the lane. Drive my tractor too fast across the fields. I have about six years of journals on this site and another one. I would write away the hurt he was causing me.

All you can do is ride the highs and lows of a divorce. Eventually the lows won't last as long as the highs. You really are doing quite well. What helped me all the way thru 19 months of my divorce and the six years after was reading about Narcissists and their stunts. It took the sting out of the hurt he was trying to cause me. Like everyone has said in time this will be just a bad memory from your past. I haven't heard from the ex in two years and life is getting good again. I rarely think of him except on here. Sometimes it's best for your own wellbeing to never have contact with them again.

this site is saving my life. I come here when I need something. I write and write. You guys saw me through the first, confused stages when I thought I was in a separation, trying to save a marriage; it was actually an "innocent time" when I didn't know about the affair. Since then EVERYTHING I dread has happened. Affair, sex, abandonment and abuse. Total attempt to annihilate me and completely ignore my side/wants or needs. I AM THE INVISIBLE WOMAN. It's amazing to me that his vile, despeciable piece of shit acts like HE IS THE ONE ABUSED OR WHATEVER, IT'S OVER, SO NO ONE CARES WHAT YOUR FEELINGS OF INADEQUACY, RAGE OR INVISIBLITY ARE? So what if he cheated? Get over it! We're divorcing. So what if you are abandoned? Get over it! That's what divorce is.
The first time this all happened my sister said 3 very profound things that I could not fantom: 1)there's another woman 2)he's not coming back 3)you're going to need serious therapy because you don't get how abused you've been. She said I fear for you.
I am starting to realize that NOT ONLY am I addicted to this foul creature but I am co-dependent and am drawn to my abuser. I literally think I can never be happy, full without him. His words to me: you're a mess; you'll never do anything with your life; you're a burden; you need serious therapy; you have serious character flaws; you're lazy; she's the opposite of you--easy going, tall, white, very pretty, nurturing. We have good time together; I can see us happily married with children; you are broken that is why you can't have children. These words replay over and over in my head. On good days, I really fight them but then more often than not, I give up and they just take over. Abuse. It's abuse. women who are battered go back to their abusers. They think they love them; they think they did something wrong and that is why they are beaten. Mental/emotional abuse is so much more vicious. It's like I am at war with myself. The RANDOM memories of 22 years replay over and over in my head. Right now, remembering places we went to, ,over and over. These memories are at war with the nasty, despicable monster who found a nanny in a café, asked her out, planned dates, had sex, brought her into my bed and home, dated us BOTH at the same time THEN decided to leave me. Now with no outlet for me to even vent my anger or thoughts. I would say I have no voice but rationally I know it's not true. My sister reminds me that I am doing exactly WHAT HE DOES NOT WANT ME TO DO! I am staying in NY and finishing that phd; he wants me gone in Florida! Why? I truly don't know. It's not as if my being in NY is going to stop him from getting OW pregnant, getting married and getting on with his life. It's just that I am denying him control in this one area and in some ways, I HAVE NOT ACTED THE WAY HE EXPECTED and I have thrown him out of control. By coming back to NY and facing this head on, his trail of lies have unraveled. To a piece of garbage like this, it's probably EXPOSURE that bothers him. Because yes people know this story; they know what he has done and yes they DESPISE him. THAT is probably what he can't face. His crumbling façade of being part of the human species!

You're spot on, PU. They cannot stand to have people discover what they've done. My ex is a salesman in my town. His public reputation has always meant more to him than my opinion of him. He put his clients first every time. He's used Parental Alienation to force me to keep quiet about what happened in our marriage. He's lied about exactly when the ow came into his life (and denied a previous affair I fronted him about). He's told lies about me to our kids and to the mutual friends we had at the time of our separation.

They will do anything to protect themselves, and it drives them crazy when we don't run away.

I'm glad you're beginning to see him objectively. It helps a lot if you stop seeing them through the rose-coloured glasses of love, and start to look at them like people you know and are not connected to. It helps to look at those old movies and snapshots of your life in the same way. The abuse is clear if you look objectively. If you can let your own emotions take a back seat for a bit, you can watch him in these replays and see him for what he really is, and see your reactions compassionately as the very normal reactions of abused people.

You can vent here and share your sadness here as much as you want. I cannot recommend enough the idea of finding a good therapist and sharing everything with him/her. You have one wonderful sister there and she's right, hey? You didn't realise what he was doing to you, but you know now, and you aren't going to sit back and let the rest of your life be spoilt by one rotten apple.

Please don't allow his words from the past to define you. He managed to get into your brain during your marriage but he is not allowed in there now. Chase him away every time his voice comes haunting. He doesn't get a say in your new free life without him. You are worthy. You are worth far more than him. You will find a lovely man who treats you well and loves you properly. You carried him in your marriage and he was the burden, not you. You are the most together person I know right now, grabbing onto life and giving it a good shake, you have a wonderful life and career ahead of you.

Over time, you will start to look at the old memories differently. Some will be good because there really were some lovely times mixed in with the bad. When you first really see the bad things, it's like someone turned on a powerful light and you can't believe what you are seeing. It hurts like no tomorrow and you doubt your own realisations. It helped me to talk it over with my therapist, but it helped me more at the time to come to this site where there were so many people who had already walked in my shoes.

You are going to be just fine, PU. Getting angry is a good sign.

love and hugs
kamary

Hello pickingup (PU),
As others said here, it's normal to have the ups and
downs that you have. It's hard to understand why. One day good the next crying . in fact I still get a little down here and there., but nothing like it use to be.
Your stbx has something wrong with him. He's in anotber world. He has no reason to treat you that way. He's hiding something... FROM HIMSELF. I'm sorry, I have laugh again....he thinks this new relationship is going to last....sorry Charley... Not so ! His true self
" problem self " shows as how be treated you before and even now. His ways are not going to change with this new person...just a matter of time that this new person realizes this. Someday he will be in for shock......hes the one that will be crying...
You're doing OK. Just keep doing what you are...
Timeman.

Dear Kamary and Timeman (and everyone else) thank you. I now see I have to really work on not letting his opinion of me affect me. For example, I can't have HIS DEFINITION OF SUCCESS be mine. I was thinking what it would be like if I saw him 10 years from now? What if I look old and worn down? What if I don't get a tenure track job or I am just working at some job? What if I am alone? I picture him smiling and saying, see I told you so, she's a mess and a burden. I KNOW I HAVE TO COUNTERACT HIS DEFINITION. Maybe success will be happiness and so what if I am not at a high powered job? what if I am not some research professor? Success for me would be a full time job where I am independent. Don't want a lot of money; just enough for me to stand on my own two feet. Success would be getting into my car, playing music and going where ever I want. Success would be peace. Once I can get to a stage where I can define my own definition of success, I am going to be on the mend. I comfort myself knowing at least I am seeing some of this. You're right Timeman, he will never be happy because NOTHING is enough. He has a great job with colleagues who like him. Makes at least 70K (with built in raises); has a pension and gets at least 30K in the summer working with another company. I mean HOW MUCH MORE MONEY DOES HE NEED? The truth is it's never going to be enough. You've got to feel really sorry for that man for letting me go. One, when he laid down next to me HE KNEW 100% I WOULD BE FAITHFUL. I hear this is important to a lot of men, this kind of security (maybe you can tell me if I am wrong, Timeman) . 2) I WAS LOYAL. Do you know what it is like to have a woman stand by you? Willing to change your diaper when you get old? To have stuck by you through all of your health crisis (mental and physical)? I used to BURN my finger boiling a hot rag in water on stove and applying it to his sore back. You know what he said to me when I said that to show him how much I loved him and wanted to be there for him? He said, BIG DEAL! PEOPLE DO THAT IN RELATIONSHIPS. No they don't. They will give you a heating pad or maybe do it once. But me, I BURNED MY FUCKING FINGERS! and that bastard didn't care! You know what? HE DIDN'T GIVE ME THAT!

Roller coaster is a good way to describe the grieving process. You will get through it; it just takes time. If you have children together, you will be seeing each other during the year, whether he wants to or not.

For me, not seeing my ex is great. No more narcissist to bring me down.

Lynne

PickingUp:
You wrote - " His words to me: you're a mess; you'll never do anything with your life; you're a burden; you need serious therapy; you have serious character flaws; you're lazy; she's the opposite of you--easy going, tall, white, very pretty, nurturing. We have good time together; I can see us happily married with children; you are broken that is why you can't have children."

The truth of those words is this -- when HE says those hurtful and UNTRUE things about YOU, he is doing what a psychiatrist would call PROJECTING! He is so dysfunctional that he cannot or will not accept that it was his OWN inadequacies that caused the demise of your relationship.

That was probably one of the most valuable things my therapist shared with me during my own 18 Months of Hell. Just remember that everything the stbx says about YOU in untrue -- that he is projecting HIS own crap onto you!

Hugs all around you. xoxo

It is perfectly normal. We all thought it was abnormal because the pain was so horrific. But you're right, this sight will save your life. It certainly did mine. It helped me see I was normal. And I learned from those ahead of me and passed on to those behind me in this divorce process. You are among the most compassionate, knowledgeable people right here on DS. It is a long process so hurrying it up won't help. You have to work THROUGH it to get to the other side. Keep sharing, keep journaling, keep reading, and you'll be great in a couple of years. LOL.

BIg hugs