I know what you mean. I wish I could help. That's a good point I think mine will find a way out of it as well just out of spite. I too would rather have no connection........what to do what to do

The financial decisions that you make in divorce are forever. Soooooo.....try to do what makes the most sense to you. Get advice from your lawyer but ALSO from friends, family, and folks on here too.

I settled for a lump sum. It seemed like the most logical thing to do and allowed me, as you are also indicating you would like, to break ties with him. So I did it and it's done.

That said, I want to share with you that I've suffered from depression and unemployment. I'm 50 now and having trouble finding a 'career' (read well paying!) job again. The divorce and healing time I took - and needed to take- took it's toll on me. So I'm separated three years, divorced 1.5 and.....not working and HE is making his 6 figure salary with great benefits and living with his new wife who makes close to what he makes and.....I'm frustrated as hell right now.

Soooooo, I'm thinking maybe I made a bad choice. My lawyer, my family, everyone told me to take the lump sum. So I did. But I've depleted it enormously living off of it for the past year and a half. Maybe I got bad advice? Maybe I made a wrong choice? Or maybe I've just had bad luck in my private life not finding work and not being willing to 'settle' for part -time or low wage jobs. Who the heck knows! Do you have a career? Will you be okay if you are unemployed? Do you truly feel that he'll find a way to stop paying you if you do take support? The best advice that I can give you is to trust your gut on this one. I didn't. My ex would've paid, I know it. But I never anticipated being long-term unemployed either....so really try to project how you can best protect yourself in the coming years.

Ya gotta make a decision. Is there a RIGHT one? Well I just don't know. I'll be curious to find out what other might say to this and your conundrum. I wish you luck and peace with your decisions. It's tough. (())

Goldengirl you have been tussling with this lump sum vs. alimony question for awhile now. I think I was at least one person who told you that you CAN MAKE THE ALIMONY AGREEMENT IRONCLAD and told you how to get it done.

I never thought or worried about "being tied to" the X in any way even though I got hefty alimony for 6 full years after the divorce was final. I looked at it as "severance pay" and the documents were tied up so tightly, he couldn't have lowered the amount or stopped paying without having to go back to court WITH ALL ASSOCIATED COSTS being HIS RESPONSIBILITY. That definitely kept him "honest" and he was only 2 days late ONCE.

One last time I'm going to say that this is the MOST IMPORTANT FINANCIAL DECISION you will ever make. Fight for what you want, but be willing to compromise. You won't get EVERYTHING that you want, but you can get everything that you need. Your life isn't over and you don't want to waste any more precious time being angry that things have changed. That will only make you old and ugly before your time.

Pull up those big girl panties and hang tough!

Cowgirl I know I laid out how to do this several times. I think dairytech did too. She's not open to what we have to say because she is set on lump sum. Golden should be asking for alimony until she can collect her full SS not until she is 65.

IF she lives in SC she has already lost a year of temp alimony. That credit card she's living on will probably be hers to pay off.
Her financial planner has already told her alimony is the way to go with this. This is one time she shouldn't listen to her gut. I'm not volunteering anything else because she so obviously doesn't want it. Golden wants lump sum and doesn't have any other income coming in. I hope this works for her. I just know that I would not have a way to make any money if I had taken lump sum. I would be broke by now instead of working to take care of myself.

I have to do lifetime alimony because if I lose my current job and I have only had it nine months. And I would have to get minimum wage. I can still afford an apt. So that is my current thinking.......

Cowg and Trish -

I've understood all that you've said. And your advice is quite sound I'm sure and it worked for YOU. I'm glad you both had such a successful outcome.

So, as I said above, lump sum is a no go. He doesn't have enough money. STILL, my gut is telling me to get away from this guy financially or he will find ways to continue the financial misery in one form or another that he's caused for 23 years. You don't know my H. He wiggles out of everything. Even with all the right /tight language in the settlement - and we have all that - what if he loses his job? You can't pay alimony with money you don't have. Perhaps a judge would request that he use money from assets to pay me but surely he'd reduce the amount. I just see problems ahead. I don't want to be in and out of court with him. I want to be free of him forever. Do you understand?

Trish -

I have asked my attorney over and over and over again about temporary support. She wouldn't do it! Kept thinking we'd have our agreement by now. Well, we don't! I'm so damn frustrated by that. It has been a nightmarish experience to say the least. Visa bill is up to $14,000 now and H has agreed to pay most of it so good news on that front at least. Ugh.

If you had to go back to court your alimony would not be reduced. The ex poor mouthed and tried that twice. The first time he had to come up with over 24,000. The third and last time he had to pay me almost twice that. My alimony couldn't be reduced because of that non-modifiable clause.

I can understand not wanting to deal with your ex but we all have to do things we don't like. Its not easy going back to court. I hated doing that but I refused to let the ex try to put me in the street. At the time we divorced I was getting a third of his net pay. He made poor decisions after the divorce and thought he could cover his mistakes by not paying me. Like Cowgirl that alimony was "severence pay" for years served.

I truly hope this works for you and you don't regret your decision. There is no do over in a divorce.

There is no reason to feel tied to your ex through alimony, you do not ever have to even talk about it to him. The state can remove it from his check and deposit it into your account, no muss no fuss and no discussion, just done!

iammine - just reread your comment…you asked if i am employed and do i have a career…here's where i am with that…i was a publicist for many years and then stopped when my daughter was born 20 years ago…since then, i've had a couple of $10/hr. jobs to help my H with the bills but both were miserable experiences for me…it's sooooo difficult to go from a professional career where I was making $90/hr. to being a minion at $9/hour. But I did it anyway to help out. So, at this time, I am not working…just very busy with many of the things required to split up…have our house on the market now, thank goodness, took forever to get it ready because i'm doing it by myself…hopefully, it will sell soon…have also been busy trying to find a new place to live…deciding where i want to be, whether to buy or rent, etc. etc and seeing what's available. Back in May, I took a Digital Marketing and Social Media class at a college here in town for the purpose of updating my skills. PR isn't done the way it was 20 years ago! Completely different now. So, that helped but it was just a 2-week course. Now, I need to find an internship somewhere so that I can actually do what I learned. My across the street neighbor, who is the head of a very successful digital marketing firm here, has offered to help me so I'm very, very encouraged by that. So, SLOWLY but SURELY, I'm getting back on my feet. Desperately trying to avoid the $10/hour job, you know? Takes all your time, usually no benefits and nothing to show for it. So, that's my "career" update. After I sell my house and find another place, I'll be able to dive into the career search full-time...

Goldengirl -- You wrote: " Even with all the right /tight language in the settlement - and we have all that - what if he loses his job? You can't pay alimony with money you don't have."

IF your Financial Settlement Agreement is worded properly, it will be IRONCLAD and it MUST SAY "this agreement cannot be modified OR rescinded by any court." That's what was required in Maryland, and it's pretty "standard" legal language as far as I know. This way, if he loses or quits his job or just gets stupid, he is STILL LEGALLY LIABLE for the amount of alimony for the duration stated in the Agreement. Also included in MY FSA was the statement that IF the X decided to be stupid and stop paying or reduce the amount of his own volition, HE WOULD BE 100% RESPONSIBLE for any and all attorney fees and court costs FOR HIMSELF AND FOR ME. That language will keep them honest, for sure.

I know that Trisha's X wanted to play stupid games, but he's a special case. And she mustered the courage and tenacity to HOLD HIM TO THE AGREEMENT. That's the exception to the rule.

You also wrote: "Perhaps a judge would request that he use money from assets to pay me but surely he'd reduce the amount."

Re-read what I just wrote and the amount and duration is above the jurisdiction of the court!

"I want to be free of him forever. Do you understand?"
Yes, we fully understand, but you have to keep your emotions OUT of this and put your COMMON SENSE in the forefront.

That's the last thing I am going to say on this subject.

So, if the language is as powerful as you say, why is this board full of stories of women whose husbands didn't comply with the Agreement? Why is this board full of stories that involve women who had to take their husbands back to court over and over again? Why?

I'm nowhere NEAR being an expert on the legal 'stuff' being discussed in this thread,nor do I even live in the USA where most of the members here live! I DO notice that there seems to be a heck of a lot of variances state to state re: divorce laws but....I have to say that I concur with goldengirls observation in post 12.

Maybe "ironclad" in one state is...not that in another? No idea. Golden, isn't that a question that your lawyer could/should answer? And that said, in my experience, different lawyers have different interpretations of what can or can not be obtained in a settlement, or altered in an existing one.

MY lawyer told me NOT to go for support plus a lump sum (however small) because if the ex contested and we went to court, court costs would start adding up (I'd HAVE to pay my own no matter what) and the amount of support awarded would very likely vary from judge to judge. WHAT? I remember saying to my lawyer (asking really) that if I got judge "x" I would likely get a good settlement but if I got judge "y" he might say that I have a good education and some "career" level work behind me and that I should be earning a good income again in - fill in the blank - and award me next to nothing and/or limit me to a very short collection period? He even named the one judge who he'd had experience with in this regard, and when I said "well, I don't WANT that judge then"! This made him laugh...because, of course, it's not possible to pick your judge lol! I wish...

It's not cut and dry is all I'm saying. I think the uncertainty of what could happen is what is giving you pause for reflection here, or maybe even putting you in "freeze" mode, which I get! CGK has said on many occasions how great her dream team was, and that her lawyer was, smart, tenacious etc. but that is not always the case for many of us. How I wish that it was! I envy you folks who made out like bandits!

I was never fully confident about my lawyer, but I lived in a small jurisdiction and in fact he was highly recommended to me by a very successful in business friend soooooo.....I went with him. And I trusted him. And he WAS trustworthy and smart enough I suppose....my options just weren't presented to me as being as 'rosy' as I'd have liked. Was that HIS fault? HOW THE HECK DOES ONE KNOW?! I trusted his professionalism. He seemed kind and smart and...well he sure charged enough to be top tier lol!

In the end, unfortunately, I'm not happy. My life hasn't 'bounced' the way I'd hoped or, in fact, anticipated! My fault? Did I do the "wrong" thing? I'll never know, as I said before. I 'm sharing my story because I remember how hard it was to go through this negotiation stage. I't not easy, nor is it just a matter of toughening up. We feel weak, maybe don't even 'trust' ourselves in making sound decisions...and in the end it's just us doing that.

What is it they say about divorce? Everybody loses?! I'm happy for those of you who ended up with a good settlement (good for you - truly!) but it just isn't that way for all of us. Sad, but in my mind, true.

Goldengirl:
The only member on this board who had a "stand-alone" financial settlement agreement and had trouble with an X fulfilling that obligation has been Trisha, and WE ALL KNOW that her X is a classic Narcissist. Fortunately, Trisha had the legal wizard attorney and a lot of tenacity to fight for what was rightfully hers and she got it.

A large percentage of the "stories" you refer to are circumstances where the amount of settlement and continuing financial support was DETERMINED BY THE COURT. That's why the route to take is to get that Financial Settlement Agreement done as a legal agreement between you and your stbx OUTSIDE of court. If done that way, it will STAND no matter what happens!

I never had a problem collecting the Alimony, but it was WAR getting to the final Financial Settlement Agreement and I know he only signed it because he was afraid if we went to court, the judge would actually make him pay MORE. My attorney continued to encourage me to get the now-X to sign it BEFORE the TRIAL DATE because otherwise, he could quit his job, claim reduced income or just plain retire and then we'd be back in court. It's a common tactic in divorce.

Part of having that "Dream Team" is EDUCATING YOURSELF on divorce law in your state. I did this and was well-prepared for the long process. I also knew what would be considered reasonable in terms of a settlement and stuck to my guns with my attorney's experience and advice behind me.

Both Trisha and myself have encouraged you TIME AND TIME AGAIN to DO YOUR HOMEWORK. I even went so far as to suggest that maybe your current attorney isn't willing to go to trial on your behalf and that's why the "advice" you have been given isn't working for you. That was the MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION I asked when I was looking for a divorce attorney -- WILL YOU GO TO TRIAL IF IT COMES TO THAT? I was surprised by the number of attorneys who would NOT. The one I ultimately chose had tons of trial experience and was known to be a barracuda in the courtroom. She was also well-known as an advocate for women and the elderly (not that I am elderly). She was the ONE for me!

I agree with Iammine's comment that everybody loses in divorce and no matter HOW MUCH $ you get, it's never enough. Alimony across the board typically runs to be about 30% of the paying spouse's income. With the exception of a few remaining states, settlement of all other financial holdings (debt AND assets) is 50/50. Half of nothing equals nothing. The court EXPECTS you to at least make an effort to become self-supporting or at least to produce SOME income. Only in Hollywood do ex-wives live in the lap of luxury post-divorce.

Iam you are right on much of what you write. My Atty only does family law and usually only does research for the other Atty in their firm. I was so lucky to be led to this man. But you also have to be prepared to lose it all. I was willing to take that chance but I was so scared for the 19 months it took for my divorce.

Goldengirl lives in my state and that is why I volunteered as much as I have on how it worked for me. All I have done is answer the questions she has asked on here.

I had very little contact with the ex the last ten years of our marriage because he took a temp assignment overseas. Temp job assignments don't run into ten years. So I had the time to really make up my mind and give the ex time to come home. I knew I was done when he started treating me like a paid employee. Coming home with such hate in his eyes.

So many women have to go back to court because their exes think they can walk away and court orders don't apply to them. Some women or men won't push to get them back into court for many reasons. My ex is a Narcissist and rules don't apply to him. So he stubbornly kept testing our legal agreement. During our last three contempt hearings I was before two judges with tough reputations. The judge who granted my divorce was over the last two hearings. In fact I was able to request him because he was the presiding judge. I may only have a HS education but I know how to read to my advantage.

But in the end when all is said and done you have to make decisions and stick with them; right or wrong you set a course for your life. You have to trust that in the end you will be okay.

If golden will stop and think instead of all the what ifs she knows her ex better than anyone. While she knows how he wiggles to get out of things is where she sets limits in her decree. She also knows his weak areas and that can work for her.

This is getting much too long but I will add that I knew my ex would probably try to quit paying me and I prepared for that. All the money from boarding horses was set aside to cover the fees to get him back into court. Golden can hold whatever lump sum she gets to cover maybe going back to court. If her decree is well written her stbx would have to pay her Atty fees back to her. You can't run scared when you are seeking a divorce.

I've said this once and I will not reply to another post from golden. She obviously has problems making decisions and all I seem to be doing is adding to her what ifs. So I won't confuse her any more.