Wow, support, your father sounds so much like mine. I am so sorry that your visit brought you back down. I missed you while you were gone and prayed that you were safe and at peace.

It is so wonderful that you were able to be so positive and feel so good the first two days. That is a huge step forward. You didnt go into it with negative feelings.

I always found it extremely difficult to go home to visit. My father was very loud spoken and demanding. I was not allowed to have an opinion either. It was his way or no way. I always felt "worn out" by the time I left there. I think I can relate to how you feel.

These are some things that helped me:

I stayed with my positive affirmations and positive thinking

I strengthened my self esteem by nurturing my talents

I surrounded myself with positive people

I focused on "me" and what I needed to be happy

I distanced myself from toxic or negative people

I continued to build my strength, so that each time I went to visit it was a little easier. I could not change my father, I could not have my own opinion with him, I could not tell him how I felt. I spent my time there just enjoying my mother and letting my kids enjoy their grandparents as much as possible. When I left, I didnt feel as worn out as the last time. On the drive home, I would clear my head with good thoughts and remember that I am a good person and my fathers actions do not reflect on me. Those are his actions, not mine. Once I had my priorities straight, the visits were not so difficult.

support, I only ever tried to tell my father once that I did not approve of his behavior. My children were small and he was screaming and yelling at them and calling them names. I was angry and approached it wrong. He blew up and told me if I didnt like it to leave. I did. I never saw him alive again.

My biggest point here is YOU CANT CHANGE YOUR FATHER, he is who he is. But, you can change you and be the strong and wonderful person you are. Unfortunately, your father may never want to hear your feelings. I wrote alot of letters after my visits to my father telling him how I felt. I NEVER SENT THEM, but it was a way to vent my frustrations about not being able to be me.

support, you have done so well and each day you will get stronger. You are amazing to me, but be patient. You will not change over night. Be gentle with yourself and remember how amazing it is that you were so positive the first two days. Next time it will be three, then four, then a month until your life is changed and you are the happy person you deserve to be.

Hugs

I have such a hard time with the reality that people are mean. When I left for my trip to my dad, because of my feeling really positive, I saw the world a little more positive. I smiled and spoke to people at random and they were friendly too and I got to feeling that what I put out there I was starting to get back. Then I visited my father and the idea that what I put out there I DON'T NECESSARILY GET BACK hit me real hard!

I find it really hard to impossible to beleive that if you are being nice, kind, gentle, that the world will give it back to you. I have come to see, time and time again, that no matter how nice I AM, others keep on hurting me with their actions.

Support,

I think some of the hurt can be lessened by not expecting anything from anyone. I don't mean that we don't get a return from our kindness, but it may never come. When it does, it is precious. If we can remember those people who would never hurt us, we can sometimes make a bubble to surround us when we are in the presence of people we HAVE to see who take a toll on us. Unfortunately, family members are often the worse culprits. But when you're so loved by other people who really know you (sometimes our families don't) you know that there's good for others to see and it's who you are.

I won't tell you my own family story, but it got easier when I stopped wanting what would never be given me, even if I deserved it!

Z

Sorry guys but I understand exactly where support is coming from, what has happened to support, exactly the same has happened to me.

I have gone through and faced every fear that I could possibly dig up about myself I had reached up to the point where I was feeling supreemly tranquil within myself and yet with one single person who is of central importance to my life I feel powerless to do anything.

The problem is that just walking away is not an option, I understand that I CANNOT CHANGE the other person, I do not want to change the other person I accept them as they are and forgive in advance any harm that they may do to me, but the situation does not change.

I am not asking for a change in who they are, I am only asking for one small thing, "that they see who they are", not even that, "that they begin to see who they are".

In a way you see, I am an idealist, a dreamer, I identify with this DAPA group as being almost like a model for how human relationships should be 100% positive support and people discussing their ideas publicly and coming to an understanding of each others views.

But there is one massive difference between DAPA and the outside world which is that all its members come from DS and every person on DS came here because they were seeking help and support.

The question is how do we get people in the outside world to realise that what they may be causing mental harm to others.

(looks desperately around for a way to turn this into a positive)

Maybe support we need to somehow let them know that we really have some understanding of them.

And just maybe they will begin to have some understanding of us and realise that there is another viewpoint.
If you can't get through to them by speaking try a letter an e-mail or some type of gesture.

It is just like I said about depression you have to keep switching your approach again and again and again and again and maybe in the end you start to get through.

I really hope this helps you support. One more thing support whenever you get beaten down in the outside world come here and we will raise you up again we will always be your friends.

support, I think in some way we can all identify with your feelings.

You said: "I smiled and spoke to people at random and they were friendly too and I got to feeling that what I put out there I was starting to get back." This is so wonderful. It is a beginning and a change in the way you used to feel.

It is unfortunate that your father has so much power over your happiness. Mine was the same way, honestly. I felt like my whole world revolved around what he thought of me and my life.

My point was when I said I could not change him, was that I can only be responsible for me, how I act, how I live. My father had come to a point in his life where he wasnt going to see who he was because he didnt think anything was wrong with him. He definately thought something was wrong with me though.

I vowed to change myself so I would not be like him. I vowed to be the best I could be. I have succeeded. I did not carry forth my father's very dominant and hateful persona. Because of that, my children will not suffer as I did and they will not carry on his personality. They will have their own.

THANK YOU!! I am an idealist too, and I think that is why I feel disappointed by life and the way people treat eachother. I repeatedly see that the good guy finishes last and the louder ones get what they want.

The ABSOLUTELY MOST DIFFICULT thing for me to work on is how do I hold onto my ideals and the way that I treat people without feeling that I am taken advantage of and looked at as an easy target? People dump on me and never worry about what they say to me because they know that I am diplomatic and soft spoken and that I will take it....and if I EVER hurt anyone's feelings by mistake in the smallest way, they sure do let me know it.

Hello everyone,

I can also relate. I went home for my sister's wedding and stayed at my step father and mother's house and had to leave one day early and stay at a hotel the last night because I broke down in uncontrollable tears. It was not because I got into a confrontation with my step father. I don't talk about serious things with him. It was because of all the memories.

I told my mom I just had to go. The city I was flying out of was an hour away and while my mom understood why, she also reasoned that I would get a good nights sleep at the hotel and wouldn't have to drive before getting on a plane. I was ok with that.

I didn't mean to say all that, not that I didn't want to but I would like to add some positive points so I will do that below....

I understand how being raised like we were would make us very suspicious of the outside.

Support, for the last 6-7 years, I made it a point to talk to people in the halls at the hospital where I worked. I loved doing this as I knew it would bring a smile and help other people's mood. One day, I did the same, said hello and smiled, to one of the lab techs who was drawing some blood for a patient. I did not know this person but had seen him around the hospital a time or two.

He looked at me and said "Do you think as slow as you talk? You must not get anything done." Just to fill you in, I am from the south and now live in an area where most people here don't have an accent. I could not believe this. I thought at first he was joking. It did make me a little more reluctant to speak to people randomly but I later found out that he was a very miserable person and no one in his dept or any other dept got along with him. He left the hospital shortly after that.

What I am trying to say is that it is not your fault how other people act. It is not a reflection of you. It is ultimately a reflection of their abilities to relate to other people. There are tons of people out there that don't do it well. They are in essence miserable, or at least a lot of them.

I do believe that we can increase our success at dealing with those type of people.

My husband swears by the book VERBAL JUDO. I have not read it but he says that it teaches us "how to take negative incoming communication and hostility and neutralize it through the art of verbal deflection and in needed cases will take their argument and turn it back onto them using VERBAL JUDO." My husband is an amazingly calm person and an excellent communicator. When he was a regional manager, other managers as well as the HR dept would call him over to fire people who were difficult to deal with. He actually had someone thank him years later, who he fired, who at the time he fired them, called my husband "a piece of s---." Anyway, take a look at it.

I just want to add one more thing. I have tried to change people and then I realized that I could not. I definitely could not do the work that was needed to be done by that person to actually make it possible for them to change. I also realized that the way they acted had nothing to do with my worth. While I believe that there are plenty of reasons why my step father is the way he is, he is responsible for his actions. I could not make him see this. I do have control over the consequences of his actions which is one of the reasons I now live in another state. I did not leave to punish him but in reality, there is always a consequence to one's actions. So I don't mean it in a punitive way, but I have to take care of myself. I could not live near them and be healthy mentally. ALso, the money is great here. As far as he will admit, the $ is the reason I left. I did not tell him one of the reasons I left was because of him. I do not feel it would have made a difference. If he was a different person, I would probably still live near them and spend holidays etc. This is however not a reality. I'm not saying move away. But make healthy choices for yourself.

I agree with Shelly that writing letters is a great way to let your father know how you feel. He is then able to process it better than if you told him in person. He could refer back to the letter anytime he wants and really think about what you are saying. It may cause some changes in him.

I refuse to let other people make me feel guilty for their behavior or unwillingness to consider my feelings. I make choices based on the big picture but that includes taking care of myself, mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually etc.

I hope this helps someone. :)

I definatley need to learn to take care of myself. But does that mean that I decide not to express myself in front of people who I know will not respect me? It seems that I have to stifle who I am in order to avoid confrontations, which makes it easier on the loudmouths and harder on me.

Support - one day with my dad and I feel like a child. I go over feeling all grown up and proud about myself and he does something to bring up all the hurts from my childhood or something.
But the last time that we visited he told me that he knows that he brings this out in me or that I bring it out in him. He said "it is a crazy dance we do girl - but I love the hell outta you and I am very proud of you". So whenever it happens I think of what he said. I am sure that your dad feels like that too.

I hear ya Support.....Get the book VERBAL JUDO and any other that will help you be prepared for those kinds of people.

Hey Support I was just reading Gecko's post, I looked at your post and I looked at Shelly's post and one thing occured to me. I am exactly the same with my father, all I can hope is that when my son is grown I will continue to treat him acording to the age he is and with the respect he deserves.

One reason I submitted my earlier, you may say not wholly positive post, was because I am hurting in this respect at the moment. Another reason I submitted it was to illustrate to people who may be reading this thread that we know that in life things are not that simple.

It is easy to say some words but living the reality is a different matter it takes alot of hard work to reconcile ourselves to the fact that the world is not going to change over night. That we are going to meet many people who simply have no idea of the harm that they may be causing and refuse to admit they are doing anything wrong.

All that having been said Support, I regard your progress as amazing. I have seen you grow in such a wonderful way here and I think everybody can say the same. You have changed, you have become more self enlightened and that will never go away.

At home with your family I am sure you are a much brighter happier person than before, with your friends and also strangers you meet you are more open and friendly.

There always may be some people and environments whose power over you is so great that it can bring you down. The most important thing to understand is that as soon as you get out of this environment you can go straight back to working on your self enlightenment.

You don't have to go back to square one you can pick up right back where you left off.

Take care, Simon

Simon, your words came from your heart. I agree with Simon, support, you have grown and been enlightened. You are and encouragement for all of us.

The world can be cruel sometimes, and yes, I still find myself not sharing who I truly am. Even around my brothers who are much like my father. However, I knew my father loved me deeply and my brothers do to.
Sometimes, our trade off for avoiding confrontation is to be different than we would like to. I found that the confrontation was worse for me than not being myself for the time we are together.

Only you can decide what works best for you. There are many times in my life that I have had to pretend to be a different person, or be quiet about who I really am. I do it when I dont want my children to know I am suffering or when I am hurting at the same time a friend is and she needs me more.

Change does take a long time but is possible. My only suggestion would be this: If you truly want your father to understand, you are going to have to take the risk of telling him in person and with letters. But, you have to be careful not to expect him to change. Give yourself limits, and if he doesnt understand or acknowledge your feelings, let it go. Love him for where he is and who he is.

Really, in life, it is about acceptance. We have to choose what we are willing to accept and if we can accept the consequences of our acceptance.

Another thing that occured to me. As I was working on myself many years ago, with my father, I realized that because I "allowed" his behavior to affect my self esteem, it also affected how I saw other people. Sometimes the other people I thought were trying to walk all over me reminded me of my father and I resented it. I had to learn who was "toxic" for me and stay away from those kinds of people.

Support, you are a wonderful, loving person who deserves the same in return. Seek those kinds of people to surround yourself with. All the friends I have now treat me with respect and love. The family members that dont, I keep my distance from but still enjoy company with them when I can, when I am strong, when I am willing to "accept" them as they are.

Hugs