Oh. JAw.Don't EVER feel obligated to move. Or, to join a church where they seem so closed minded. Go because you feel lead to. Don't fall prey to their pressure that you need to live a certain way because scripture says so. To often, a group will take only a portion of scripture, and make it fit their belief system .

My favorite example of this is people who say the Bible says not to drink alcohol. NO! It says:
Do not drink wine IN EXCESS, where in is drunkenness.

I do not understand you full situation. But, I think you are saying you would have to travel a far distance to attend this church. Don't feel obligated to do so. Find a church near you. Or, find a friend near you, and start a bible study between you. The early church met in homes. There were no church buildings at that time. Be bold! Be brave! They were. And thousands joined them daily.

May I ask what scripture they are basing their belief in?

Hello there! First of all: Many thanks for your reply!
They base one of their believes on this verse:

Luke 14:26 New International Version (NIV)

26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters—yes, even their own life—such a person cannot be my disciple.

They say that, you should put Christ above all and therefore I should move to their church because they think it is the best option and most practical (whereas it is far from practical for myself, but alright). Counting the costs they call it. From my understanding, Christ means to say that whoever rejects Him, should also be rejected in favour of Christ. Christ should be #1 and I agree really! If my mum were to tell me not to be a Christian then well too bad for her. As for denying my own life: I believe I am doing that every single day for Him. I am fighting and struggling for my faith. I bet there would be some extreme churches that say: crucify yourself to show that you care more about Christ than your own life. They do that in the Phillipines right? Yet it seems so accurate you knoww what I mean..? This passage also seems to back up their believes but they never showed me:

Matthew 19:29 New International Version (NIV)

29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

I think this is a reminder for all the people that those who have to leave all this for their faith, will be rewarded for it! But keep in mind: not everyone has to do this! For some their church/Christian community is at walking distance. So...

There was another verse about obedience which I could not find, but they said that based on that verse, I'd need a discipler. Pretty much someone who monitors my behaviour 24/7 to keep me away from the abyss. Yet someone like that was never obliged by the Bible as far as I know. I get what they mean I don't think it is a weird idea but moving for it? If my mum didn't work so hard for my future then sure I guess? Still very unpractical and it just hurts me, worries me and it makes me very anxious which stands in the way of my faith. They really give me the feeling I'm not good enough...

This is their choice for you, not God's. They are basically trying to control and run your life, by laying out the path they say God has chosen for you.

If I were you, I would run from them as far as you can go! Put them on physical ignore! Don't be around them by yourself.

In a word, they are a "cult." God never tells other people how you should run your life. Instead, he gives you the way, and if you pray, he will sometimes use others to confirm what God has already told you, or the Bible. NEVER does God say to someone else, something radical for your life, and then force you to do it, against your better judgement and wishes! Never!

You do need to follow after Christ. And you do need to put him first. BUT, you do NOT need a discipler! You need your Bible, the leading of the Holy Spirit and a Bible believing church.

"When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come" John 16:13

Notice it says HE will guide you. Not some intermediaries!

I am glad these people showed you the truth of Jesus, and you were saved. We can all rejoice in that. But you need to obey your parents, because you are under age, for a start.

For a second point, if those people knew Greek, the statement about "hating" your parents, really means, "despise." Jesus never tried to break families apart with his teachings. He was using an aphorism, to emphasize the need to put God first, which it sounds like you are doing!

As for Matt 19:29, who was Jesus talking to? Everyone? Anyone? In fact, he was talking to his disciples, and he was talking about salvation. He says in the verse before, that the "twelve" will sit on twelve thrones. He is not talking directly to you, but rather, Matthew is recording a talk Jesus had with his inner circle to reassure them for something they had already done - gotten saved! And not walked away from Christ, like the rich young ruler did, in Matt. 19:16-22.

Here are the verses in context - context means you don't just pick a verse, and not look at the verses surrounding it in the Bible.

"And Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly, I say to you, only with difficulty will a rich person enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich person to enter the kingdom of God.” 25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?” 26 But Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” 27 Then Peter said in reply, “See, we have left everything and followed you. What then will we have?” 28 Jesus said to them, “Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or lands, for my name's sake, will receive a hundredfold and will inherit eternal life." Matt 19:23-29

I am going to start a thread on the definition of a cult. I think you will find that the people who are pushing you to do these things that you know are wrong, fit this definition perfectly.

Thanks a lot for that reply that made me feel so much better wow xD Such a relieve... Yeh well I am not necessarily saying they are bad people... Or well I don't know if a Christian cult consists of bad people I don't think so since the Bible forbids that but... Yeh I do think this is indeed a way to control me. It seems very convincing... They are using Scripture somewhat the right way but in a way that it could possibly mess with lives. They are actually from the London International Christian Church which is a pretty big and famous one or so I've heard. They also have one in Amsterdam and such... I don't know if this is still a cult? I honestly don't know much about cults yet I think? Whenever I think of a cult I only have the satanic version in front of me... Can cults be part of such a big church? The man who brought me into this is the father of two very good friends of mine... Whom he abandoned for his church though and now the poor girls are living on their own and I'm trying to take care of them and help them where I can. Sure, the guy comes over once in a while but he really fails to be a good father at times. I am really confused... I should have sticked with my old church... They share the word but they aren't so hard on people... This was just devastating for me. Indeed... Christ and the Holy Spirit is all I need.

Jung Wan, please read through the other thread I started on the definition of a cult.

Here are a few things that the Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry says about cults. Does any of it sound familiar?

"New Teaching--has a new theology and doctrine.

Only True Teaching--often considers traditional religious systems to be apostate and it alone possesses the complete truth.

Strong Leadership--often an individual or small but powerful leadership group holds control of the group’s teachings and practices.

Asset Acquirement--often requires tithing and/or property transfer to the religious system.

Isolationist--to facilitate control over the members physically, intellectually, financially, and emotionally.

Controlling--exercises control over the members. Sometimes this is through fear, threatening loss of salvation if you leave the group. Sometimes through indoctrination.

Indoctrination--possesses methods to reinforce the cult’s beliefs and standards where opposing views are ridiculed and often misrepresented.

Cult ethos
Usually seeks to do good works, otherwise, no one would join them.

They are usually moral and possess a good standard of ethical teaching.

Many times the Bible is used or additional "scriptures" are penned.

The Bible, when used, is always distorted with private interpretations.

Many cults recruit Jesus as one of their own and redefine Him accordingly.

https://carm.org/cults-outline-analysis

Only True Teaching most definitely. I found it strange already that they called themselves a ''Bible'' church and that he never mentioned the denomination, even when I asked. On the other hand, they did say that they don't know if other churches were right churches but they basically said that most churches were doing it wrong and that my childhood church might also be wrong. That's why I kept thinking I had to move: They were the only right ones. The strong leadership is plausible: They pressured me by making groupchats and by adding people to it to show that they ''all share the same believes''. They were part of the same church. Isolationist I'd say. They wanted me to move there and leave my life behind. They wanted to pay for it for a big part even. Yeh controlling definitely. They really gave me the impression that I'd lose salvation if I were to do ''my own thing''. They also said that their interpretation is always right because they received it from God. Scripture was God-breathed so there was only one interpretation: That of God and they seemed to posses God's interpretation.
Cult or nah? :o

I googled the London International Christian Church. There wasn't much, but there is a google group, you might want to read.

This is the title:

Mind control cult "London International Christian Church" indoctrination procedures exposed. Here is a brief excerpt.

"Seeking God" redefines Seeking God in the normal meaning to actually
mean going to the church more "bible studies" and having them tell you
what the bible means. A visitor is programmed to believe "Seeking God"
actually means going to bible studies and doing what the church tells
you to do. The members have bibles giving the impression of legitimacy,
they call themselves Christians or disciples, they claim to be a church.
There is allot of subtle false assumptions our victim will make. The
cult gives a very professionally polished impression of a church.

In a normal church you don't usually have someone come up to you and try
to indoctrinate you with a very narrow interpretation of the bible, a
normal church tends to rely on the Holy Spirit and God rather than
indoctrination sessions.

Kip McKean has updated the bible studies to combat rebellion in the
ranks and to deal with his former cult, he makes a better mouse trap. He
refines the indoctrination programming mind control. The indoctrination
program is designed to try to combat the most common objections to the cult.

As I said earlier the cult has done literally hundreds of thousands of
these "bible studies" and hence can gauge peoples typical responses and
combat those responses with misinterpretation of scriptures or
reasoning. After doing a hundred "Seeking God" studies which might be
take than a year most cult members get to know typical disagreements
people might have and learn how to defeat those disagreements. The cult
members have the edge over the recruit overwhelmingly so add that to a
gang of cult members against one person and there is little or no chance
of any visitor making any point that disagrees with the cults
interpretation.

The cult claims they are converting people to Christ, actually they are
indoctrinating people to think like Kip McKean thinks about the bible,
it's nothing about Christ and everything about becoming a Kip clone.
They claim it is to unify solidify and multiply, it is to perpetuate the
cult and Kip and his staff get richer and more powerful by the day as
new cult members are deceived on in.

Often the cult member doing the study will open up about their life,
this is done to make the visitor open up so they can be exploited later
on. Member "I used to drink allot before I got saved" Visitor "I used to
drink too" Member some time later gets out bible and misinterprets all
the verses about drinking to come across as superior.

A visitor might be given a cheap bible, it seems like a gift, but the
first time they pay a tithe the cost of that "gift" is recovered. "

"Cult members in the London International Christian Church are told to
evangelise, there is constant pressure to perform by getting visitors
and bible studies. Each bible study is recorded on the cults "stats
sheets" and sent to Kip, the best "salespeople" get promoted to bible
talk leader or some other such man made title to make them feel good
about themselves supposedly all for God.

The visitor is led to believe it is from God and they are special, it is
purely a sales number game, recruit recruit recruit. The visitor thinks
they are being led to become a Christian or join a church, one of the
long term objectives is to get 10% of everything the potential recruit
earns by an out of context tithe scripture in Malachi 3. At the end of
the day nothing spiritual is going on, its recruitment with the goal of
getting people and money to power the cult.

The cult recruiters are not that much different from people on the
street trying to sell you things you don't want or need. With a cult
they don't just want you signed up to a charity they want the whole of
you as their mind controlled slave. Most low rank members might be
sincerely thinking they are making Christians, get behind the scenes to
staff level and it's purely about money and running the cult. It is
nothing about Christ and everything about keeping the cult growing.

The staff at the higher ranks get to live in luxury, the cult is like a
multi-level marketing scam, the people at the top are making massive
amounts of money. The members at the bottom of the pyramid often live in
near poverty funding the cult.

The visitor will know nothing of what goes on behind the scenes and is
simply presented the church as something from God. "

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/alt.religion.christian.boston-church/HUt9NxNe5qE

Juan, you have noticed some of the BIG characteristics of a cult, and sadly, it is with that church. I found a blog by someone who left, and it is all about how the church is a cult. They call it the LCC, but the leader's name seems to be the same.

"Basically, the LCC claims Jesus came, was crucified, was resurrected and ascended into heaven: correct. They then claim there followed early Christianity with the Church beginning at Pentecost with the sending of the Holy Spirit: correct. Now, when I really think about what I’m about to write, it comes across as the most absurd heretical teaching I can think of: that soon after the apostles died (up to 2nd century), Christianity entered a ‘dark’ period – there was a state of apostasy….many had tried to get back to the Bible during the Reformation period, but had failed. Suddenly, in 1979, the Holy Spirit came to Kip McKean – bingo – the true Church came home again after 1800 years! I don’t know whether to laugh or cry when I think about it, but at the time I just accepted it. Talk about a distortion of history.

"If you haven’t ‘repented and been baptised’ into the LCC then you’re not a Christian – you’re going to hell. There is no other way to be saved. This is the teaching. I know all the defences and responses a member would give to this: “But it’s biblical, we’re following God’s word, we’re disciples, the true Church etc…”. To that I would respond: Please humble yourself before God and perhaps consider that you (the LCC) may be applying your own interpretation to the Bible. Can you be absolutely sure that everyone else is wrong and you’re right? How can they claim to know the true interpretation of the apostles’ teaching after 2,000 years? How many of them have Greek as a first language in order to most effectively interpret the original Greek text?"

"On discipling, basically you join, you’re discipled (often by someone who’s not long been a member). They’re discipled by another who’s discipled by another until you reach the top (completely unbiblical). Result? A hierarchy of disciples, the ‘pyramid’ approach where advice travels down the hierarchical structure (similar to ‘pyramid selling approach’). Little room for Christianity is therefore left. Your discipler wishes to know everything you do. Once you become a leader, your discipler will be making even more decisions for you and excercising greater control over your life (often from instruction from above). You will be disciplined and rebuked by your discipler, confessing your sins to them and repenting your sins to them.

This is the effect of discipling, so characteristic of many cults: the individual loses their ability to make decisions and take control over their lives. They feel ‘God is in control’, but the reality is the leaders are in control of their lives. The discipling approach research has proved, causes unhealthy personality changes in people, trying to conform to their leaders, trying to be like what others are telling them to be like – totally unchristian. Where is your freewill and freedom in Christ? The Holy Spirit should be your ‘guide and counsellor’, not your discipler. Yes, seek advice from people, but not to the point where you’re turning to your discipler for decisions you should be making yourself."

http://tolc.org/mary

Okay so it is Luan LOL But it's okay and guys I am telling you: THANK YOU SO MUCH! I have been praying for this for weeks, I have been crying and the Lord finally answered me by guiding me here! I AM SO THANKFUL YOU HAVE NO IDEA! I am going to warn his daughters (who didn't want to join him anyways) and other people also! I am going to tell those people in a polite way that I am going to leave them, and that I don't feel anything for their teachings. I am going to seek the real God. Thank you guys so much! Thanks! You have no idea how much this could have damaged my life! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!

GOD BLESS YOU!

OMG GUYS THE BIBLE STUDIES' VERSES FROM MCKEAN ARE CONFORM WITH THE ONES I HAVE HERE! WOW.

I have tried a few times to write a response to what i am reading here. I agree with Marlene. The more i hear, the more I think "cult" . My dear, if it's "man made" it's so wrong.

This so reminds me of the Norman leader. He saw a vision from God. And, he felt like his was the only way to God. There are many parallels. Joseph Smith was so convinced his was a true vision from God, he created a whole new Bible. Sound familiar.

Here are a few scriptures I want you to look St:


John 3:17 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

17 For God did not send His Son into the world that He might condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.


Romans 8:1-3Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

8 Therefore, no condemnation now exists for those in Christ Jesus,[a] 2 because the Spirit’s law of life in Christ Jesus has set you[b] free from the law of sin and of death. 3 What the law could not do since it was limited[c] by the flesh, God did. He condemned sin in the flesh by sending His own Son in flesh like ours under sin’s domain,[d] and as a sin offering,

And, the need for a "discipler"......Jesus is your discipler.....we should model our lives after His example!

Yeh I fully agree... I thought this way from the start! But I really need your help... I am still a bit brainwashed and my head feels so strange... as if I can't let go of certain stuff... Do you know how I could fix this and... Do I just study the Bible from Genesis til Revelations? I feel so lost right now... Yet I want more faith... Do you know a way to deal with this? o.o

Luna, I was just telling my husband, that if I was in this forum for one thing only - to help you escape this cult, my life would be worthwhile.

And do seek the real God. Don't be put off by people who use the Bible as an excuse to control people, and ruin their lives.

Jesus Christ is real, he loves you, and he is leading and guiding you each step of the way. We need to praise God for bringing you to our group, and that he gave you the courage to post and ask questions.

"I always thank my God for you because of God’s grace given to you in Christ Jesus, 5 that by Him you were enriched in everything—in all speech and all knowledge. 6 In this way, the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you, 7 so that you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ. 8 He will also strengthen you to the end, so that you will be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful; you were called by Him into fellowship with His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord." 1 Cor. 1:4-9