Christian Support Group Community Group
This is a place for everyone who loves Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior (or those who are seeking Him), to come and discuss important issues in their lives and find support from fellow believers in regards to their faith and life. We uphold the Bible and living a Christ-like life, not as a way to heaven, but as a reflection of our love for God.
The wisdom of the fathers
Why do Brothers, who agree with me on the central truth of salvation, take up a completely negative attitude, regarding the Philadelphia-Church and the 12 Marks of Perfect Submission?
Answer: Man is, as the image of God, just like God Himself, a tripartite being; he consists of spirit, soul and body. At conversion and new birth the Holy Spirit takes possession at first of man's spirit, while the soul with its organs of feeling and thinking can still remain a hotbed of spirits of error. Therefore the confusion of doctrinal opinions with people of intellect, whose thinking is not controlled by the Holy Spirit; and who approach the Word of God with their natural understanding, while disputing the possibility of direct divine revelations, which they consequently not receive.
Such people are especially suited to be used by Satan as false prophets, without them being aware, of course. They think, no doubt, because they are converted and born-again, that such a thing is impossible. But this is an error, which is already the start of being a false prophet.
(by Christian Roeckle)
For now, we are being sanctified, and the Holy Spirit is doing a work in our hearts and lives. If we had to be perfect to be born again, no one would be saved!
I have lots of verses to support this, but I am traveling and in Starbucks, so it will take a while before I have time to post.
There is a big issue with the Greek. Some words, like telios, mean "perfect, complete, mature." But the word "perfect" differs from out modern and post-modern understanding of the word. There was no perfect accuracy. Even the Pharisees would probably not claim they were perfect. And if they did, well, you know what Jesus thought about the law-keeping, legalist Pharisees.
Surely it would be better to say we are becoming complete, or being mature, rather than perfect?
So tell me Walter, are you perfect now? Do you never sin, in thought word or deed? Because Jesus is the only perfect person to live. But how wonderful he chose us in him, and sent the Holy Spirit to do this work in our lives. The theological passive explains this, in Romans 12:2 and 2 Cor. 4:18, the word "transformed" is in the imperative passive. It is something God is doing to us, and he commands us to obey.
So we are to be obedience, and to seek God and his wisdom, love and help to become mature.