Hi again TTMS! Good to see ya again! So glad to see you are doing ok. Praise God for that!

hmmmm! What is it with that 5-year mark that seems to be so hard to deal with because today is that 5th year mark for my estrangement getting its legs going with my DIL's phone call filled with false accusations?

How sad that your son is not going to be able to see or know his sibling. How sad that your mom is so controlling and toxic to the point she cannot be a part of your up and coming wonderful event that God has blessed you with so abundantly.

Please let us know how things are progressing?
God Bless!

Thank you MattiesDay! Sad that today is the 5 yr anniversary of the day your world started unraveling. :-(

We are so very blessed that our baby is at 26 weeks and still growing. I am at 19 weeks of bedrest now, but it will be worth it. Our 3 yr old who has not met her big brother sang Happy Birthday to him at our family celebration of his birth. All that was missing was him.

I think the hardest part of all this is wondering HOW this could really be happening? Are we THAT despicable? Even if you take every single way we might have failed as parents and magnify it by 1,000, I can't imagine how this seems "justified" or right or excusable?

My only peace comes in knowing that this life is fleeting..and from Heaven I can pray for my ES's redemption and maybe we will get to spend eternity together? A mother can only hope. I am grateful for the 17 yrs I was blessed to have him in my life. He was a wonderful son and brought me so much joy.

Trying....I cannot bear to think that this will go on for another 5 years. I agree that there when families fall apart over such trivial matters, it cannot be because of anything we have done to deserve this kind of treatment - abuse, molesting, addictions, yes, but not because your DIL says so. Why is it that they cannot let their DH's and GK's have a relationship without her if she doesn't like us? That is the part I cannot accept.

I am so sorry for you, trying. I think the way you worded your plight was perfect.

"I regret deeply all the time I allowed my mother to be an influence and poison in his life. She was never 'secret' in her disdain for me...even when I was "in the family" so her derogatory comments about me were a fundamental part of his existence. "

I think many of us can relate to that statement, not necessarily with our mothers but with other influences in their lives. Thank-you for using words that are so real.

Thank you ladies for your thoughtfulness and support. I have never known other Christian families with an estrangement, except related to addictions, so it is such a blessing (in a tragic way) to know other people are in a similar position. People find it hard to understand that, even after 17 yrs of poisoning, my son would walk away from us with hate in his heart. But sons and daughters do it for a lot less toxic exposure, don't they? My son's counselor had told us that the most powerful influence in a young man's life is a female "love" figure (normally a wife). My mother had crossed the lines in some sick ways with my son, so that she sort of filled that role for him. It wasn't overtly sexual, but there were many twisted things that blurred the normal boundaries of grandmother/grandson. I tried having my mother attend counseling sessions with my son to have an outside person explain, from a Christian perspective, why she should not caress and kiss the neck of a 13 yr old boy...or send him letters with her lipstick and perfume in them...or bears with a bottle of her perfume so he could sleep with "her" next to him...etc. All to no avail. She used the counselor as further evidence of how 'evil and twisted' I am because I was trying to use the counselor to pervert their "special and unique" relationship. I could never win.

I understand addictions, as we have a complex history on my husband's side with addiction...and all of them tend to disappear when they are in their worst times. My husband prays against addiction and worries just when he LIKES COFFEE too much. LOL As much as he gets teased about his overly-aware nature, I do love it though! You can never be too careful to make sure something you enjoy isn't becoming 'too important' in your life. But he uses the same logic about our estrangement with our son. Meaning...pray all you want...but he cautions me against making it the center of our world...or letting it overtake my thoughts. I do try hard to keep memories positive and when my heavy heart tries to suck the joy out of life, to surrender it to God...again...and again...and again.

I guess it will be a refining experience...one about surrender and trusting in the Lord...and tremendous grief.

When I mentioned about addictions that "all of them tend to disappear when they are in their worst times" I meant the family members battling addiction seem to go "underground" for a while. I might be wrong, but from my experience with my DH's family, those estrangements are always sporadic and even though they might last a while, they are intermittent...the people surface when they get in trouble with the law...or need money...or go through a "clean or sober" spell...or there is a death in the family, etc.

It just seems different than a toxic separation where you become dead to your child. There is not a word...not a shred of news or anything. Is that just our family? Even when a friend of mine had a son living on the streets doing heroin and then meth, he would occasionally pop up on the radar screen. She would sometimes get a message from him or a call. Is there anyone else here who is DEAD to their children?

Trying, sorry you have this much pain coming from two generations. Prayers for you.