This is tough as you dont know both sides of the story...I would not offer advice but if asked might have some.

I personally dont know how "good" it is for young children to see a grandparent for the first time that is in the "dying" stages. I would not want to put my grandson thru that and I had a loving relationship with him for 8 and one half years. I would like for him to remember as I was... not that the end result of his mother estranging us is seeing me dying...just does not seem right to me ...JMO

gordos, I think AllK has some legitimate thoughts I would say. But, it is a sticky situation for you to be in too.

You ask whether or not either parent deserves to see their kids or not based on their past behavior. Based on that alone, probably not. However, I feel that since death has total finality to it, it is time to set things aside and do what is right. Perhaps he wants to see them to apologize because they have realized how wrong they were in the past. That is not uncommon at all. After all, one only has to look at the thief on the cross that repented and asked Jesus for forgiveness. But, the reality is that only one of the thieves repented - the other one didn't. You just don't know which those two parents are sorry for their actions at this time.

But it is really your son's and your DIL's choices to make. Since this is the son that treats you so badly, (if I got it right) then he probably isn't going to listen to you.

If you are on good terms with your DIL whose father is dying, and she does bring it up then I would suggest that she visit the father alone first and then see how it goes. IF it goes well, then since the grandson is so young (7-8 mts if I recall correctly) then I don't see any reason not to bring him. If he were older, it might confuse him and therefore a photo would do just fine.

I really feel that it would be best for both to go, whether or not you have any influence with them or not, because she/he may regret it later on as they get older and it will be too late to do anything about it at that time. That also happens quite frequently. Perhaps at this time they do not have a grasp of what God's forgiveness really means but will later on. Usually, if and when that happens, that is when they regret THEIR treatment of their parents.

These are just my nickel's worth of thoughts.

I agree with GuelsMom that for the adult children to see a dying parent at the parents request is neccessary for the adult child to do so that their are no regrets and/or guilt later...perhaps they do want to apologize and/or see the error of their ways.

I was thinking only of the grandchild and was not aware he was so young...at that young age I do not think the child will remember good or bad about the visit. I apologize for giving an opinion without cking the age first. I was letting my personal feelings sway my answer to you.

I concur with Guelsmom better to have done and have no regrets than to have regrets later when impossible to undo....But most of these kids dont see it that way...that is why we are on Estrangement sites after all.....

You are always in between a rock and a hard place when offering opinions to others I would still wait until she asks for your opinion

AllK

I had a sister that while growing up I was averagely close to and into when she got married and had 2 kids. She got divorced and married a truck driver. No one in the family liked him very much because of his arrogance as well as his language. Him and I never clicked from the get go.

As soon as we met him it was clear that he had an adverse effect on her personality as she began to act and talk like him. Sis and I drifted apart and only saw each other at family get-togethers, weddings and funerals. I was a Christian and she was not and any time I even mentioned the word 'God' then I was told to keep my religion to myself.

Eventually, most of the family accepted him and his mannerisms and they became close and when I got married, DH and I drifted further and further from 'the clan.' I/we were the outcasts because we did not drink or swear and committed the worst sin of all in their eyes....we even went to church.

When my sister was around 65, she had a serious stroke and yet was able to be at home with the help of her DH who did take good care of her. However, because she was severely impaired physically, all her friends and everyone in the family stopped associating with them and never once visited her in their home - except me. When she had the stroke I was the only one that went to the hospital. I was the only one that visited her when she went home. I was the only one that called and talked to her on the phone. I was the only one that cooked food for her and brought it to their home.

Then she got seriously ill and ended up in the hospital. Still no one visited - but me. Her DH really never changed but he did treat me respectfully because he saw that the ones he "thought" loved my sister, were not there when she needed them. Only the sister that had been treated so poorly and ridiculed was there at the end of her life.

When she died, I can say that we were closer then than we ever had been. All that "stuff" was no longer important. She was my sister and that would never change.

I say this not to brag about myself but to say that there comes a certain time in life that I think God really puts us to the ultimate test of setting aside past grievances in order to do what is right for those in need.

When all was said and done, it was I that could live in peace with myself.

CM

She did ask my opinion. I told her the same thing I told my son "try to go see him, & reconcile before he dies, or you may regret it later on..Now its a moot point. They moved her dad to Denver & she & my son cant afford to go see him. She also fell down today & broke her arm :-( There was a sheet of ice all over town & several people fell & injured themselves..ahh, winter, gotta love it!

Sad but very moving and poignant story, Carolina, similar to me and my sister, but she is saved.

I believe that forgiveness is the best gift you can give yourself. They obviously didn't live honourable lives as Dads, but their were sperm donors of sorts. And they didn't get to enjoy their children throughout their lives.

I don't think its fair in a way to bring the child, I wouldn't even if a child was close to the grandparent depending on the state of the stage of their ailment.

I think that their irresponsibility was anything to be respected.

But in the end I think none of us deserve anything. Mercy and grace given so it is received. My sister and ES have slandered me and if asked I would go to their death beds and I don't wish them any sickness.

Its not an easy situation, but they may not be the strong independant young men they used to be but frail, and weak.

My mother's husband of 33 years was an atheist (still a decent person) and in the end came to Jesus and after many years of arguing with me he said the sinner's prayer with me. I was the one who was there often to care for him in his last days.

So as it goes hate the sin, Love the Sinner.

But Gordos I can appreciate how it hurts as a mother when we do all of the work and they float around like disney land dads unaware of all of the hurt they leave behind.


Best wishes,
AlienatedM

"Hurt" is putting it mildly. He totally traumatized & dismissed thier feelings as if they werent human. My daughter in law, less than 2 months ago, BEGGED her father to come see her & his grandson. He didnt even have the decency to reply..so NOW he wants to see them..Im sorry, but I totally know how she feels. I went through the same thing with my mother. When someone repeatedly rejects you, it doesnt make you feel "warm & fuzzy" about them.
That being said, I DO believe in forgiveness & have done alot of it in my life. My sons have referred to thier father as the "sperm donor" before. I have advised them to forgive thier dad, that's all I can do.

Life is complex and difficult often, I hope you all find consolation for the pain you've been through.
But men not to excuse them don't process feelings often like we women do, so maybe finally the light bulb went off for him. I know justice delayed is justice denied, but I think its more of a selfish thing for her to see him. That she is the better person and think he just might feel ashamed of himself for once. When he see's all of the beauty and goodness he has been missing.

Alienated.

I'm in the pro-visitation camp. There is a deeper issue here, namely, the dying individual's relationship with God. Reconciling with a dying individual who desires it, even if the individual was horrible and does not deserve it, often eases the way for the individual to similarly reconcile with God on his or her death bed.