CHRISTIAN PARENTS of ESTRANGED ADULT CHILDREN Community Group
Estrangement makes it difficult to talk about with family, friends, neighbors and church members. Christians are NOT immune to broken families. Talk about your experiences with those who know how you feel and get positive support through your Christian faith...."In these last days difficult times will come, for men will be lovers of self...disobedient to parents,...
I appreciate this is a support forum for parents. Please be assured I have no intent of imposing my perspective on other postings.
And if you want me to move along right now I will.
I am an estranged daughter seeking insight into and ultimately reconcilliation with my estranged father. I have read a number of posts here and hear you saying the sorts of things he says about me, that I venehmently disagree with and am hurt by and that hinders reconcilliation. So perhaps you good folk could explain some of these things to me from the perspective of an estranged parent, and perhaps I will be able to understand it better because I am not feeling defensive/hurt by the person Im communicating with.
A simple example to start with. Calling him by his first name. He said that was ok, so I did, and now he says how disrespectful I have been to be calling him anything other than Dad. I stopped using his first name immediately but I cannot bring my self to call him 'dad'. I feel it is disrespectful to me for him to insinuate he had that role in my life. He didnt, literally. I met him for the first time 2 years ago (I am 30 now). How do you reconcile a situation like that so both parties feel respected (so important in a healthy relationship).
This is a simple example of a much bigger more complex situation, but can you help? I could ask in an estranged childrens forum I suppose but I would likely just hear more opinions like my own, which is not progressing anything.
And if you want me to move along right now I will.
I am an estranged daughter seeking insight into and ultimately reconcilliation with my estranged father. I have read a number of posts here and hear you saying the sorts of things he says about me, that I venehmently disagree with and am hurt by and that hinders reconcilliation. So perhaps you good folk could explain some of these things to me from the perspective of an estranged parent, and perhaps I will be able to understand it better because I am not feeling defensive/hurt by the person Im communicating with.
A simple example to start with. Calling him by his first name. He said that was ok, so I did, and now he says how disrespectful I have been to be calling him anything other than Dad. I stopped using his first name immediately but I cannot bring my self to call him 'dad'. I feel it is disrespectful to me for him to insinuate he had that role in my life. He didnt, literally. I met him for the first time 2 years ago (I am 30 now). How do you reconcile a situation like that so both parties feel respected (so important in a healthy relationship).
This is a simple example of a much bigger more complex situation, but can you help? I could ask in an estranged childrens forum I suppose but I would likely just hear more opinions like my own, which is not progressing anything.
I am delighted that you are considering reconciling with your father. If your father is saying things about you that have hurt him, then I would suggest that you listen to what he has to say. He may be right or he may be wrong. At the same time, ask him to give you the same consideration; that you want to be able to express the hurts that he has caused you over the years. Both sides are going to have feelings of obligation towards each other, resentments over past events, and regret for mistakes that have been made that could have been avoided had more thought been put into what was best for each other.
Build on whatever you have that is of value to you and your dad. Unless there is a history of genuine physical sexual abuse, the first step I would suggest is to let go of old resentments that you both have held onto that really were not all that important. Keep it real. Truth flavored with kindness on both sides is important.
As a good start on your part, apologize for causing the estrangement if that is warranted. You can always say that you regret that things were not good in the past but that you hope it will change for the better in the future if you were not the cause of the estrangement.
As far as the first name vs. parental respect as "dad" goes, biologically he is your father and deserves that respectful title. However, since he has not appeared to have been a "father" in the active role then perhaps you could find a common ground until you get to know each other better. Personally, I am not keen on my son calling me by my first name but since you did ask him and he did say yes, then I would discuss it with him again and say that you are open to it for the future but not now? Compromise where compromise does not fall outside of God's 10 commandments would be a good basis to begin with. The Golden Rule also is a good guideline..."Treat others the same way you would like to be treated." Maybe if you asked yourself if you would like your child calling you by your first name. Maybe one out of a thousand may go along with it. (Just guessing).
I think you should both accept that your relationship might never be what either of you had imagined it would be or should be. Keep in mind that both parties have a "preconceived idea" at to what that relationship will be or should be in the future. Again, look for where you can meet each other halfway.
Take it slow. Don't expect things to be as if nothing ever happened. You have changed as well as your father simply because people change as they get older. Don't nit-pick at each other's wrongdoings but be willing to see things from each other's perspective. If things get too stressful, take a break from discussing the issues and do things together that are lighthearted and interesting to each other. Revisit the things that were important to each other at another time.
I take your comments on board. With regards to saying things that have hurt him....I would be interested in perspectives on a situation that reoccured constantly between us until it just broke down communication entirely. A super simplified example:
Him: why wont you skype me anymore
Me: because I feel you were nasty/lied/manipulative to me last time and it made me feel unsafe.
Immediately, every time, he drops his bundle and gets mad at me for being disrespectful, calling him names and refusing to answer the question head on. What on earth? This just is unfathomable to me everytime. My answer to his question is honestly that I feel he has lied or whatever it may be, and instead of treating my concern and fear with respect and compassion, and working to improve the situation, he berates me and tears me down as disrespectful etc.
I understand he is hurt to be called nasty/liar etc. But is it ok for him to treat me like that but I cant call him on it? Do I just put up with it? (I cant). I dont understand this one at all....help?
So, if he says..."Why won't you Skype me anymore?" you can say (with kindness) "I want to talk to you, and I am willing to do so as long as you are not nasty to me, are telling me the truth when I know THE FACTS, and that makes it seem as though you are being manipulative." If he denies it (and you know for absolute certainty that he is not being honest) you can say that you will be available when he is ready to do so.
As to the name thing, I am guessing your dad went along with you calling him by his first name because he wanted to get to know you better and if that was one way, it was okay. As you communicated more, he wanted to be your "dad" and if he has a strong personality, he wants his way.
So often, and I can say this from my own experience/fault, even though a child becomes an adult, in the parent's eye they will always be their child. And with that, I have had to work very hard with the one child who is still in the lives of myself and my DH to step back, stop giving advice and let him work through things himself, maybe wait for him to ask my opinion, not just give it as I would have when he was young. That is a very difficult thing for a parent to do.
You sound like a very wise and caring young adult. Pray before your communications with your dad asking God to guide you in the communication.
There's a good book on boundaries by Cloud. I know someone remembers the name. I don't right now. Sounds like that might be helpful.
Would like to hear more of your story.
The Golden Rule comes to mind. God bless you as you try to work out your relationship with your Dad.
Re calling him a liar, manipulative etc. I am completely convicted that those are factual matters. I could show you evidence, present witnesses, all that. But at the end of the day what does it achieve? As I have discovered, nothing. He is equally convicted that he has not lied. I speculate that he can't be honest with me on some things because he can't be honest with himself about somethings - it is perhaps to painful for him to admit some of those short comings. As a human being I can compassionately say 'ok' to that and have built successful business and social relationships with other people like that etc....but with this man....I can't help taking it so personally. I feel 'what kind of fool does he think I am to believe some of this stuff?' (ie it insults my emotions and my intelligence) and 'why is protecting his ego more important than being honest with and not hurting the feelings of his daughter whom he professes to love'. I wonder sometime if he is being malicious but deep down I think I believe he just cant help it. He just can't face those things at this point and I wish I could be more sympathetic to that but it hurts so darn much when he does it to me :/
So we have a situation where I'm setting a boundary 'Don't talk to me if you can't be honest with me' (a perfectly reasonable boundary) and he is setting a boundary 'Don't lie about me and call me a liar' (also perfectly reasonable boundary). We cant both be right and have a relationship. But to each of us, these boundaries are reasonable and critical components of our moral fibre and we 'can't' back down on them or one or both of us feels like a doormat.
We both believe we are right, and that the other is wrong. When he says that I am wrong about him lying, that offends and hurts me, and in my opinion completely dismisses my valid experiences and reality. It allows him to sidestep taking responsibility for and making improvements to his lying to me. It has recently dawned on me that he probably feels the same way when I tell him he is wrong re his position about lying.
Each mans way is right in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs hearts. Proverbs 21:2
So. It is easy for each of us at this point to sit back and say, well, my boundary is reasonable, it is up to him/her to respect it. And next thing you know I will be posting in 20 years time how my EF died and never 'came around'. I don't think he can, anymore than I can. So what do we do?
Rosearch I would be happy to share some of my perspective or experiences as an estranged child. What would you like to know?
My EF says these things about me too. He truly believes them.
I don't understand that. It's not true at all for me. Not even close to my perspective or my position. Can members here offer me some insight there? If I try and tell him otherwise I am 'in denial'. How do I get him to hear me? Hypothetically, could you ever understand that your EC genuinely experienced, in their world, the things they are accusing you of? Not saying that is actually the case in your situations, but hypothetically what would that take? How do I get that across to him? Is it even possible? I'm not calling him a liar to be mean or hurt his feelings, it is not a choice I am making to speak to him like that to disrespect him or push him away, it is what I really believe and the concern I need addressed to reconcile.
???
For most of us, the things that are said are simply untrue. For example it has been said that I hate animals. The truth is, I do not hate animals. I am indifferent to animals in general, but am afraid of large dogs for certain. There is a big difference. These are the sorts of things we are referring to, some relatively minor such as this, others more significant.