I am not a believer that God designed estrangement. Do not fully understand why He permits it. That being said I do believe He is the only one who can bring healing and unfortunately for us it is in His way and time.

I agree it does seem contradictory.

I do think that there is nothing in this universe that God does not see... know... understand...even design and/or permit.

That is the very definition of free will and choice which God does give to all of us in order for us to have free will and choice there must be "good" choices and at the same time "bad" choices. We chose the path. God does not chose it for us...he shows us alternatives and differences and choices...and of course God knows there will always be consequences both good and bad for the choices we make. If we learn from bad choices then we are growing and changing for the better and then we make better and better choices.

God must permit evil and wrong doing to exist ...although they would not be His choice for us..he must allow us to choose or we are just robots in a world.

Our estranged children have chosen very bad/evil/dark paths...and they are hurting each and every one of us...their own children...and even themselves. There will be consequences. I know it...you all know it and of course God knows it...in the estranged ones minds (for whatever reason) they have chosen to hold themselves above consequences...they probably deny it even exists or accountability or personal/family responsibility.They believe themselves to be the center of their own little world/universe. It is a lie they tell themselves daily if not hourly.

God must allow all things...because he is God and can deal with all of it...nothing surprises Him he has seen it all...betrayal...lies...torture...death and then redemption finally for those who chose right and other consequences for those who chose wrong.

It is a perfect plan if you believe in free will from God to chose our own paths.

I pray every day for the right path to be shown to me today and then tommorrow I begin anew...God willing.

Blessings
AllK

Norske1, I understand your pain and suffering in longing for our prodigals to return. I believe that God's heart hurts, too, when our EC deny Him, just as He longs for all of His lost sheep to return to him. When I think about the scripture of the prodigal son, I picture the father hiking up his garment and running to his son with outstretched arms. Clearly that father, or our Lord, missed his son terribly and didn't care if he was acting I appropriately at the time by running to his son. God knows that we parents are suffering and miss our EC terribly, but his thoughts are higher than our thoughts and his ways our higher than ours. We must trust that He is in control in all circumstances and praise Him during these storms for what he is about to do.

My own pastor was a prodigal son. He left for college and turned to alcohol and disregarded his Christian upbringing. He had to hit rock bottom, which I think my own ES must do. God has a plan for all of our EC. The difficult part is that he doesn't operate in our desired timeframe, but his timing is perfect and he has a great reward for our EC when they return. It will be much more wonderful than we can imagine right now during their absence. There will be no other explanation for their returning to the fold...but God! Who will receive all the glory, honor and praise!

God bless your hurting heart and give you peace.

Thank you all for your responses. AllK - I need to read and reread your words often.

I certainly understand about the free will and that until our EC come to Him, nothing will happen. But I sure wish God, who knows everything and knows when and if our EC will return, would take the pain from my heart in the meantime.

But what about the EC who ARE Christians, who pray, who love, who live, who attend church, who treat all their friends in a Christian way, but just don't want anything to do with their parents? I believe that is my ES.

They really aren't prodigals. The prodigal son in the bible went off to lead a wild life. My ES did not do that. He just did what my DIL told him to do - estrange from his family. He continues to live a Godly life in every other way. He never drank, did drugs, slept with other women (his wife was/is his first) and they did not live together until they were engaged. I guess that is why my heart is still so broken after 6 years because it is hard to understand the power of a woman over a man -- but -- as I type this I reflect on the story of Adam and Eve and how Eve got Adam to sin. Gosh - I guess it goes on and on and on.....

So much has been shared already. We live in a sin cursed world and nothing surprises God. He is God. He said in the Bible that there will be tribulation in our lives. The promise is that He has overcome the world. We go through real pain. As Joni says there are broken necks(her), broken families, and broken hearts. The pain is real. I know it is for me. I know it is the hardest thing I have gone through. It involves so much emotion. There is betrayal by the very ones we did so much for. Jesus knows our pain.

I think estrangement takes place with Christian and non Christian EC. Our ED was serving The Lord when she left. I know the enemy plays a part in the destruction. He would love nothing more for estrangement to destroy us. It almost did me but for the grace of God to step in.

I understand more if our EC never knew The Lord. The Word says that believers are more accountable for how they live. Dishonoring and giving up your loving parents is not God's way.

I've said this here before but I was what some might call a prodigal. Never estranged from my parents, but certainly not living a life they would feel proud of..or that I was proud of.

My mother passed away about 3 years before I turned my life around. I wish she had been alive but that was not how it ended up.

It is incredibly difficult living without interaction with our EC and grandchildren, but I believe the answer is in trusting God has a plan for THEIR lives. Our job as parents is finished. We have to give them over to God and leave them there (I'm preaching to myself here). We serve a big God! What we cannot accomplish He can. His plans might involve our children coming back to us during our lifetime, but we don't know that. The best we can do is go on with our lives in a way that honours Him and will make our children and grandchildren proud of us, when and if they do choose to re-enter our lives. IMHO :-)

Norske.....even Christians still hold onto their "pride" to the extent that they are not prepared to humble themselves to submit to God's Word at this point in their lives. They are not different than any other Christian that has not given up their "sin" that feeds them with their personal desires over being subject to what God has to say about the family - at this time.

A much similar, but also very different thing happened in my life when I was a fairly new re-dedicated Christian. I smoked cigarettes. Eventually, I realized that it was not good for my health and that I should stop. But the thing that was really getting to me was that I found myself saying that I would not go to Bible Studies, pot luck suppers or to any thing that would go over an hour because I needed to have my "fix." What I finally figured out was that cigarettes were controlling me and preventing me from doing what I know God wanted me to do. It took a long time for me to set those down so that I could attend a Bible Study instead.

I see that is sort of what these kids are doing. They know what they are doing is wrong but they are getting something out of it and are not willing to be humble enough to put God first in that area right now.

In my situation, the "cigarettes" that my son doesn't want to give up for a reconciliation with his family is the dreaded pain and possible divorce his wife will cause for him if he does that.

I understand Norske, In our ED's case, what she would have a hard time turning from is all the lies and stories she has told against us. In her mind(and she believes her lies) she had to estrange from us. It is discouraging to know how many hurdles our ED would have to get over to reconcile ( with mental challenges included). This is where faith must step in. Humanly, it is impossible (and the enemy wants me to doubt) but I must hold on to "with God all things are possible".

Maybe we don't realize that God is possibly protecting us..(for whatever reasons) from our estranged children's unhealthy life choices.

I still don't understand how that would include my grandchild, however, God knows a lot more than I do about all the details. It has taken me a long time to accept that God's way of working in my life are just NOT my ways...I'm not supposed to understand everything. "not lean on my own understanding"...

sadmad, I believe you are right. We are not supposed to understand everything. As difficult as it is for me I just have to trust God. I believe that is what He is calling me to do. I am not a quick learner.