how about going to the pastor? he may mediate.. i agree , his credentials look perfect,, how many others r in the church with continuing secrets,, i think i would say something,, do u think God can honor a church or the leader if he ignores dirt? doesnt Paul write on the qualifications of church leadership?? i am so sorry, i know how maddening this is..huggs Robin

obviously he believes his actions are correct and you and DH have no merit...even narcissits.sociopaths can call themselves christians...the question is ...Can he walk the truth walk and not just speak words to others...and in this case it appears he and many others cannot...

Putting on a mask to convince others while treating good parents horrid.

In view of his above story I would personally show him the consequences of his actions...no car...no insurance...no help with college...no gifts...no calls...You are allowing him to continue his path of disrespect to you and DH while he gets everything he wants and needs...including treating you both horrible...and you say thank you and continue to give to him

He might never call or contact you again or act loving and respectful to you both...but let me ask you...is he now???

We teach people (even our kids) how to treat us...when we accept ... we teach...

AllK

Seems strange, but be encouraged he's in the Word. Maybe he'll do a lesson on the Prodigal Son.
We're all sinners. There are things we do too, but still follow God.
I don't know if my ED has given up on her faith in God or not. It's hard to believe you can follow God and live a life of sin

No one can follow God or Gods word...and live a life of sin

We all do sin as we are not perfect...but we ask forgiveness and try to change sinful actions or words...that keeps in the true path of God's word.

Hearing God's words and commandments and willfully choosing not to follow those words and commandments...while operating under the pretense we are to other people...thats totally wrong in my eyes...someone is lying someone in that scenario..and as I believe God knows our hearts...then he sees and knows the liars...the pretenders

AllK

sovery, I relate so much with the pain of your post. One that is front and in leadership should be an example of what Jesus would do. Our EC are not good examples for others. They are not living the Word they are teaching. When our ED first estranged 2 years ago she thought she would continue to sing on worship teams, solo, and even continue to be in a Passion Play. She saw no wrong in continuing to "serve" God while treating her parents like they did not exist. Once some of the churches where she was actively serving heard that she left home at age 20 and that it was for a bf gave, they gave her up. Quite honestly, others did not care. Some did not want to get involve which is all to common.

glazzbird is right. A church is accountable as to who they put in leadership. Sunday school teachers are accountable. "To whom much is given, much shall be required".

Your son is at a Christian college. Is the leadership strong? We were disappointed in some of the leadership at Christian colleges. Once again, it depends on who you are dealing with. If your ES is an adult they hesitate to get involved. I think you ES is 21 which is an adult.

AllK, I agree with you. DH and I pulled financial help from our ED right away. That is how we felt led to do it while always letting her know there was an open door should she choose it.

I agree that a talk with his pastor might be in order - but I stress "might" because I am not really 100% sure that is the right thing to do. What might be the consequences to it if it did not result in resolution? Stepping into his/their shoes, if I was not ready to face the truth about my actions, I would get really, really upset and possibly cut off entirely for shaming me with my pastor.

On the other hand, if it works, then kudos to you! (I'm rambling on here so my thoughts may be disjointed)

Yet, what does Matthew 18 say? It says that we are to go to the one who has offended us first and alone. Only after using the first two options, are we to take it to the church - in this case the pastor.

BUT, if you are not of the same church, how is his pastor going to view you coming to him about members of his church? Hmmm, I had an experience of sorts about that. The pastor of our ES and DIL set up some counseling sessions with him (per their request) but then had to turn it over to a female member of the church due to illness that day. She had also had counseled other members before. To make a long story short, when we were to have a second session with them and her, they backed out because the first did not go so good for them because it went well for us. Rather than give the true reason for their canceling out, she lied to us about the reason for it. (We had traveled 500 miles just for these sessions)

Because of the lies that she had told us and the true reasons for ES and DIL backing we felt confident that going to the pastor to ask him to talk to the counselor about her inappropriate behavior. He sided with her and said that since he knew her so well he was accepting her side of the story.. Her actions that weekend did absolutely nothing but drive a wedge further and further into this estrangement. Our son and DIL now had another two enablers to hide behind. But why did he do it? My GUESS is that it is a problem that is going on in every church today - loss of membership = loss of funds = loss of job.

In his heart, your ES's pastor may know you are right in what you say, but the unknown factor is....who will reign in heart when it comes to dealing with them? Will it be Jesus that he will take a stand with or will it be the "god of membership counts?"

Please understand, I am not trying to discourage you at all if you feel led to do this. You need to ask God for the Wisdom to know what, if anything, to do about this first before acting. You know the players best in this and how they might react and where their hearts may be at this time.

Please keep us posted. We're here for you no matter what you do.

Had to chime in. Our ED was barely 18 and moved in with a man 10 years older who had months before divorced his wife to target our daughter. He was supposedly a new christian and attended a different church than we did. When we heard news that our ED and this man were put in leadership positions in their youth group while living together out of wedlock, we were astounded! Our elder, who knew the situation and we thought at the time was advocating for us, seemed to drag his feet. Their pastors literally turned a blind eye. We decided to contact the head of this denomination for our state, and tell him the situation hoping he would intervene. After a month of no response, we contacted him and he curtly told us to "move on, everything was fine." Have no doubt, your name and reputation has been slandered to justify the estrangement. We have no way to prove it, but why else would leaders of God's people be so willing to enable sin amongst God's holy people? My heart goes out to you. It is so frustrating but I personally don't think you will get anywhere with confronting this church. It's true, it's all about membership these days and keeping one's salary. God will deal with them all someday. Makes me look around at young people I see serving in our church.

AllK, Just to clarify. I believe we're all sinners. We all do things that we know aren't right, but keep sinning. I have a short temper and I know sometimes I'll say things I'll regret later. That doesn't mean I don't love God. My sin is no greater than children not speaking to their parents. God doesn't see our children's sin as worse than anything we do.Sin is sin. I've taught my ED to follow God's teaching about not living with bf before marriage and she would think that God would not like her not speaking to us. The question is, is she somehow justifying her actions and isn't totally convicted in that area yet, or is she giving up her faith for pleasure?

Why don't you find out what time and where he teaches the Sunday School class and attend it. You could tell the children that you are ES's parents and very proud of him for teaching and want to join the class. Just a different thought....