Maria....This is so good to read. It got me thinking too. When our children were young did we not teach them to not fight with one another in their neighborhood? Did we not teach them that fighting with their siblings was wrong? Did we not teach them to respect the authority of their teachers in school? And when they got their drivers license, were they not told to obey the laws or else suffer the consequences? Were they not told if they did not obey the rules of a baseball game they could not play in the game? So, how is it that they did not learn the rules of being kind to their parents or else suffer the consequences? Did we let them treat us differently than we let them treat others? Hmmmmm!

Of course, my situation is different. I spent my entire life pursuing whatever I wanted, supposedly devoted to ME ME ME. This only left me empty and hollow and broken because the Lord was not involved in my life (much) for the first 45 years or so. By the time I adopted ED, I thought my position needed to change to unconditional love for another and wow was that an about-face for me. I never fully achieved it, but constantly struggled to "love" in spite of the lies, stealing, and other more passive aggressive forms of rebelling against and hurting me. Little did I know that ED began our "relationship" most probably with the intent to never get close to me, to never abide under my "authority" as a parent......although she never openly admitted that, of course. Hence, I had a daughter who faked it for 6 years and all the while I was getting better at the love thing. My heart was getting bigger, although my reactions to the insanity just got more desperate and my yelling outbursts were probably more out of hurt and pain than anger.

It's time for me to try to do life the right way, with God at the center. Not me and not a boyfriend and not a child or other family member. Sometimes it feels like I am all alone in this world, but I want to get to the point where I no longer feel that way. God's presence is all around me and the HS is alive and well in many people I encounter each day. And He is perfect! He is worthy! And through Him I am worthy, too! Time to live the right way. Have a great day everyone. And thanks for the post, Maria!

This posting really provided a lot of food for thought. I had an only child and I know she knows that she is special. I put my needs on the backburner so she may have thought my needs were not important. I agree with you MariaStevie that God does have a lesson for me. Estrangement is a time to put things in perspective. Self-love may have been lacking in my case. Thank God for his insights as well as all of you on this site.

I still struggle a lot about this "respect" issue. There was a moment a few years ago, that I flat out requested that :"Please show me some respect son!" and he quickly responded that "You dont respect me, so why should I show you respect?" Boy, that was quite a blow. I never thought that I was disrespceting him. I am usually a very respectful person. In fact, I am known to my friends as being very respectful in my speech, because I was teased once for not knowing any swear words.

I still struggle a lot about this "respect" issue. There was a moment a few years ago, that I flat out requested that :"Please show me some respect son!" and he quickly responded that "You dont respect me, so why should I show you respect?" Boy, that was quite a blow. I never thought that I was disrespceting him. I am usually a very respectful person. In fact, I am known to my friends as being very respectful in my speech, because I was teased once for not knowing any swear words.

I still struggle a lot about this "respect" issue. There was a moment a few years ago, that I flat out requested that :"Please show me some respect son!" and he quickly responded that "You dont respect me, so why should I show you respect?" Boy, that was quite a blow. I never thought that I was disrespceting him. I am usually a very respectful person. In fact, I am known to my friends as being very respectful in my speech, because I was teased once for not knowing any swear words.

Thank you, Maria, for bringing this topic forward. We are in a place none of us asked to be. More than anything, we want the pain to stop. Finally, God gets our attention, and we shift our gaze over to Him, and ask what he has for us, what nuggets of gold, are there for us in this painful estrangement?

My ES is a physicist, and an atheist. As I was walking today, the Lord began to show me what this has meant in my walk with Him, with the Lord. I've had to learn how atheists think, especially scientists, I've had to learn about black holes, and worm holes, and universes and multiverses and immutable laws of science, and all this has only deepened my faith in God, as creator and sovereign in His universe. I can debate my ES, no one else in the family can, and I think this is partly why he avoids me. About a couple of years ago there was a family gathering on a religious holiday, and some of the family was discussing faith or religion. ES was in good form and in a sparring mood, and he said to me, 'Mom, I hate to burst your bubble!' Out of me flew the words, 'Oh oh oh Son! You don't have to worry, there is no devil in hell, no angel in heaven that could in any way limit or destroy my faith!' In an estrangement, we are in a spiritual warfare.


Maria, you said QUOTE: Now, I am finding that it is healthy for me to have needs and to expect my needs to be acknowledged and respected. God is teaching me that when I voice my needs to my adult child in a loving way, I am teaching my adult child that the world doesn't center around him. UNQUOTE Maria, I think you have summed up in one sentence the true way out, of healing, an estrangement.

Yes, Maria, it is healthy to have needs, because it is part of being human. Unfortunately, to expect our needs to be acknowledged and respected...well, we live in a fallen and wicked world today. We find out in a hurry that a lot of times, needs are not always acknowledged and respected, in fact, quite the oppostie. And it is not for lack of "not allowing" this to happen to us.
For many years, I worked as an educational assistant in the local schools. This meant working with many different types of children with special needs. The teachers, and parents, and all the workers who so lovingly helped these dear children did everything possible to not allow their needs to be neglected, but sadly, oftentimes, their needs were not always met and for sure, they were disrespected in many "subtle" ways. By this, I mean, that so many others in their world were cruel...and in quiet ways.
There are all sorts of mistreatments out there today. We can't always assume that the people being mistreated have allowed this to happen to them. Not always is there a choice...mistreatment happens, through no fault of our own. Sometimes even more mistreatment and disrespect happens when we try to stand up against it. That has been my reality. The more I tried to stand up for myself against my non-Christian family members...the more cruel they seemed to get with me. Trust me, I tried for years to stand up against them, it was not a lack of trying on my part.
A lot of parents who have these wayward and rejecting adult children haven't "allowed" it to happen...it just happened. Doesn't seem right, nor fair...but it is what it is.
God wants us to learn to leave the fight in His hands. I have learned to stop trying to stand up for myself, and to let Him do it for me. He is my defender. Just like David when he faced Goliath, the giant in his life, David relied on Gods help alone..the odds seemed to be against David, but actually, with God on David's side, Goliath didn't have a chance. Our battles are a lot like that.