CHRISTIAN PARENTS of ESTRANGED ADULT CHILDREN Community Group
Estrangement makes it difficult to talk about with family, friends, neighbors and church members. Christians are NOT immune to broken families. Talk about your experiences with those who know how you feel and get positive support through your Christian faith...."In these last days difficult times will come, for men will be lovers of self...disobedient to parents,...
What should "normal" realtionships with our adult children be? What does a real relationship look like versus an illusion of a relationshp with our adult children?
Estrangement isn't a normal part of a relationship with our adult children. In order to have a real relationship, both persons must be fully willing to participate in it. They must be willing to work things out, to acknowldge what they did wrong and to make amends.
If our adult children are IN only when they want or need something and then OUT when they got what they wanted, this is not a real relationship - it is a self-seeking manipulative behavior and we are being used. They are giving us the "illusion" of a relationship long enough to get what they want.
Not being there for us and not demonstrating any love or caring for us, is not a normal part of a relationship with our adult children, We can't expect our adult children to fulfill all of our needs and to make us happy, but we can have reasonable expectations of them. Expecting them to call or visit us when we are in the hospital is reasonable. Expecting them to be there for us when we are ill or when we have emergencies, is reasonable. Maybe we can't expect birthday cards or mother's day cards, but if we are acknowledging their b-days and other special days, we could expect at least a thank you. Expecting them to treat us respectfully is reasonable.
There are books/websites/shows about estranged adult children claiming bad childhoods and about how we as parents needs to acknowledge their feelings, but there isn't much information about how we as parents deserve to be treated by our own children. I believe estranged adult children can work out their feelings of having had bad childhoods without usng it as an excuse to abuse us.
So what can we do when we have an illusions instead of a real relationship with our adult children? We can start by getting real. We can acknowledge what is and let go of what we wish it would be. That's our starting point to begin to heal ourselves. Then we can lay down the ground work for what kind of a real relationship we will accept with our adult children and put into place healthy boundaries. If our adult children can't respect our healthy boundaries, than there is no real relationship.
Illusions look great for a moment. Illusions mesmerize and make us forget what is real. Illusions keep us chasing after them when they disappear and reality sets in. It is better to have something real than to get lost in an illusion
Estrangement isn't a normal part of a relationship with our adult children. In order to have a real relationship, both persons must be fully willing to participate in it. They must be willing to work things out, to acknowldge what they did wrong and to make amends.
If our adult children are IN only when they want or need something and then OUT when they got what they wanted, this is not a real relationship - it is a self-seeking manipulative behavior and we are being used. They are giving us the "illusion" of a relationship long enough to get what they want.
Not being there for us and not demonstrating any love or caring for us, is not a normal part of a relationship with our adult children, We can't expect our adult children to fulfill all of our needs and to make us happy, but we can have reasonable expectations of them. Expecting them to call or visit us when we are in the hospital is reasonable. Expecting them to be there for us when we are ill or when we have emergencies, is reasonable. Maybe we can't expect birthday cards or mother's day cards, but if we are acknowledging their b-days and other special days, we could expect at least a thank you. Expecting them to treat us respectfully is reasonable.
There are books/websites/shows about estranged adult children claiming bad childhoods and about how we as parents needs to acknowledge their feelings, but there isn't much information about how we as parents deserve to be treated by our own children. I believe estranged adult children can work out their feelings of having had bad childhoods without usng it as an excuse to abuse us.
So what can we do when we have an illusions instead of a real relationship with our adult children? We can start by getting real. We can acknowledge what is and let go of what we wish it would be. That's our starting point to begin to heal ourselves. Then we can lay down the ground work for what kind of a real relationship we will accept with our adult children and put into place healthy boundaries. If our adult children can't respect our healthy boundaries, than there is no real relationship.
Illusions look great for a moment. Illusions mesmerize and make us forget what is real. Illusions keep us chasing after them when they disappear and reality sets in. It is better to have something real than to get lost in an illusion
The relationship that I had in the past and now in the present with all of my children..it was and IS REAL...not an illusion..sorry.
My relationship is estranged with my own Mother..but she has never acknowledge any part in the great harm that was done to me..I would need her to acknowledge this and at least ask forgiveness..say "I'm sorry"...I am desperate to hear this from her. She has enabled my oldest son to turn his back on me as well..she has been a part of my present estrangement with my oldest son. I fully understand BOTH sides of estrangement. My Mother doesn't want to accept any possible part in the harm that all of this estrangement has done...she's forgotten to acknowledge my other two adult children...the ones that currently treat me with great love and respect. I have forgiven her in my heart..God has made it clear to me that I need to do this...if you lived my childhood and knew the depths of abuse I survived, maybe you would understand that I'm not wanting to let go of my own son's relationship that easily. He really was never told about the details..I protected my children growing up. I wanted them to be free from the harm that was done to me..they didn't need to know how bad it was for me growing up. Now that my ES (now 30) is fully grown..it's his own decision who he wants in his life. He has chosen to toss out the Lord Jesus..who I faithfully taught him all about during his growing up years...it's his decision to make. Even though I don't presently have the connection to my ES, nor does he to his father, nor siblings....I will never give up and say that his relationship is an "illusion" simply because he has chosen to ignore us. We still have a REAL relationship...I know it's supposed to mean a connection and regular contact..nonetheless it doesn't make it an illusion simply because there's a break in relationship at this present time. The connection to us is permanent..regardless...we will always LOVE him...always hope for reconciliation...that's no illusion.
The enemy would like us to believe the lies that I'm no longer an important person to my ES..only God knows his heart, and deep down in mine..I know that he thinks of us...the connection is still there.
It wasn't that long ago, that I was still in close contact with my elderly mother..however, because she has encouraged my ES to turn his back on us..this has made it quite difficult to accept on my part. I pray for all of my family..sisters, mother, and ES..all of whom choose to treat me like I am invisible. It's o.k....God knows that I am not...if anything there is someone in the world still praying for their souls in spite of their choice to ignore this fact. Many people today choose to ignore God..and turn away from HIM...but rest assured..His relationship with them is still there...by HIS love and grace...it is REAL...God is NOT an illusion in spite of a great deal of the world ignoring Him today...He IS REAL...my relationship with my ES is broken..yes..but it is NOT an illusion at all. Hope you understand, I choose not to describe estrangement this way. These are my personal opinions. I pray every day that God will bring about reconciliation..at least to Himself...my ES needs to get back to God. That estrangement is a much more serious estrangement, than the estrangement with me. I live in reality...that's not an illusion...it is FAITH in God.
Fighting over definitions isn't what I think she meant nor to diminish the truth of your relationship with your son.........I hope your prayers are answered but God has his path for us and we must accept God's way, not ours.
Thank you for bringing this up. I have been thinking off an on about this very issue. I think it is difficult to even have an imagination of what it would/could be like with them in our lives, how it should have been ( in our minds eye) and to imagine a restoration, it is nearly impossible to not fantasize about how it would be, in terms of contact, respect etc.
yes there are plenty of woeful websites about how children are treated, but much less if any about how parents are treated. So odd.
I think that I have actually put more thought into, what i will not accept, when and if, this resolves. Because I need to not be so needy when it happens, to accept any and all treatment, but to set up my own healthy boundaries. But, in thinking about what the context/instances would be, when all this comes about. I think there is a great risk of being in an 'illusion'-'dis-illusion' of what it "should" be.
My illusions have already been shattered as to how I would feel when my Son announced his engagement, his wedding day and the birth announcement and arrival of my first grandchild.
It ,
The grand illusion, has all been shattered, and the shards of it all, have been used to cut deep furrows into my heart.
SO On that note. I don't want to be under any illusions as to how things will be/ should be.
In my mind Upon a Reconciliation.
Because I would be at great risk of getting hurt again. IE: If I think, because they live 5 miles away, that I would see them once a week, I will likely be very disappointed when / if that didn't happen. Etc. Holidays, Birthdays etc.
So to not set myself up for another great fall. I think it's best, for me, to retain an uncluttered open mind.
That [something] is better than this....... nothing.
And not get caught up in Fantasy / Illusions of a Grandeur relationship.
Is this what you are trying to say.?
Because the Illusions I once held in the past, are in the past. They hurt me when the Estrangement first started, but This present reality is a wake up call.
As far as expectations of actions/ attitudes in the eventuality of Hospitalizations etc.( been there done that....completely ignored and alone) So. I truly think the healthiest way to approach any relationship from here on out with them/ or anyone for that matter. Is to have NO expectations at all.
Only enjoy the surprises.
Like I said, I think a healthy boundary is akin to laying down expectations, in that ,
I am not going to tolerate disrespect and battery anymore.
Expecting respect is even too much to expect, desire-yes, but not expect..
But Not accepting abuse is a fair attitude.
I think the reason I got "stuck" there is because of the word "normal." A "normal" relationship to one family may be perceived as "abnormal" to another. Normal and abnormal are subjective terms. The problem I have with the word (and it is not your topic, it's word in general) is that society has now tried to define what a "normal" family relationship should be or should not be.
I remember when I was younger and was watching the TV programs like Leave It To Beaver and The Nelsons and thinking....."Gee I wish my parents were like them!!" You see, TV started to define for me what a "normal" family dynamic should be. Problem was, I had been thinking my family was normal. Now I started to see all their faults that I had not seen before! In view of society's description of "normal" my family was downright dysfunctional.
I have to cut this short because I'm on my way out, but I think that a normal relationship is whatever each family defines it to be. What one will accept as a boundary another may think that is unrealistic because there are different personalities, different situations, different values and beliefs and even different intellects. I have clicked on the newest "must watch" TV program called 'Honey Boo Boo" and my stomach turns but then I say to myself...Ya know what, they absolutely love one another." Are they normal? By whose terms?
Sorry, just rambling here and probably not making much sense. I am not being critical. Please do not be offended. It is something that I have been tossing around in my head for some time now. Just haven't got it down yet.
I actually didn't get stuck on the "N" word, while reading it.
I read it to mean {and, mariasteve please correct me if I misread this] ,
Normal=not in an estrangement ,
Normal= everyday sorta life / minus estrangement.
I actually think the topic of Normal/vs/not-normal is , although, so relevant to what we at times are facing .
I also grew up with Leave-it-to Beaver [they were total dorks]
and the Waltons, who I wanted to be my family in every which way. ergo, my " issues" [but seriously they were dorks too ! ] lol
My atheist sister once used that word in connection to my faith...that I was absolutely "dillusional" believing in a God that was simply an "illusion" in my head!...so you see, this term tends to send me off into a high defensive mode. It makes me very, very defensive about my strong faith, in the Lord Jesus..the One who I simply love with all of my being.. for saving me from a life without God.
I kept thinking all day yesterday..."my goodness..why did that word stir up so much angst in my heart???" then God reminded me of that conversation I had with my unsaved sister..who to this day is extremely anti=Christian. Unless you have someone close..like a family member..with this type of real and raw negative emotion towards Christianity..you probably won't understand how I could get upset over a silly word.
So please forgive me if I caused any offense, because I never meant to offend.
I'd like to add the word "illusions"..into a scrap pile of other words that tend to bring back bad memories. Thanks for understanding..I hope you understand where I've come from.
The main expectation of DH and I would be to receive the honor and respect that God's Word commands. That would be God's way. That is His expectation for our EC and we must follow His Word. Other details could fall into place.
If we allow it then it continues. I understand the comparision to an illusion all too well from personal experience.
When we were children we acted like children and our children acted like out of control children at times as well.
Children can be cute when they suddenly spurt out an embarrassing word they have heard from the parents or reveal a private family event that was not intended to be revealed to outsiders. They do it because they have not yet mastered the art self-control and some never do. Yet, God acknowledges this as youthful immaturity and does not hold them accountable until the age of accountability - whatever that age is may be debatable. Until then it is the parents responsibility to maintain a healthy environment for their children while growing up by practicing self-control while teaching and reprimanding in love. Self-control is a learned behavior.
The mention of the term adult self-control usually brings to mind images of combating dominating bad habits while others may think of self-control that is used in dealing with an abusive spouse, parent, or employer. Adults need to deal with their own human tendencies toward losing control and becoming abusive with their children, unfriendly neighbors, the person who stole their parking space or just toxic people in general. But can't self-control be misinterpreted as "an illusion" if we refuse to partake in tit-for-tat exchanges with our Ek's or other obnoxious and disgruntled individuals that cross our path in life?
Self-control is very much an important part of maturity but some people never get there. Lack of self-control can manifests itself in hundreds of ways with devastating results on individuals, families, as well as in society at large. It can be said that Jacqueline Kennedy had the "illusion" of marriage because of Jack Kennedy's lack of control in his sex life. Yet, in many written articles, Jacqueline Kennedy ignored the indiscretions because she loved him and possibly because being the first lady was a status symbol. If Jackie was willing to put blindfolds on for the sake of the children or the marriage, then her marriage was an "illusion" by "normal" standards of what society says a normal marriage should be.
So what about the illusion of a relationship with our kids? Do we maintain the relationship with our kids for the sake of having a "tolerable" degree or resemblance of a relationship knowing all along that it is an illusion? Do we put up with the illusion of knowing that it is not what it should be according to our expectations or even according to the Bible's definition of proper family dynamics in a godly manner? I think this is where we have to define our own boundaries even while knowing that these boundaries may produce an illusion of a relationship. We do it because we love them. If we allow this relationship to be the way we have define it for our own situation, then is it an "illusion"? I don't think so. If I am fully aware of what is going on then I am not in denial. I am fully conscious of what my tolerance level is.
My son says that he "loves us very much." Yet, that love is not expressed in his actions or in his words because he is pacifying his wife. I do not want the "illusion" of the kind of relationship that has been offered us. I do not want the kind of relationship where he/they essentially say to us.."Stay up in the woods, do not call, do not visit, do not send gifts to your grandchildren, do not discuss this estrangement either with me or my wife, I will say and speak to you any way I want to and you cannot say anything about it, - but leave me in the will"...kind of relationship. Some would think that at least having a phone conversation would be fine in order to have the "illusion" of a relationship and if that is their boundary then that is fine. If it what they are willing to accept and it is not physically of mentally abusive to them then that should not be judged. It may be what they have decided the definition of keeping peace is for them.
Sorry for the length of this is Maria! I think I am getting there but I'm still working on it. :-)