That's a very good point. I was too close with my son and told him things I wish I wouldnt have now because he told his gf, now wife, and her mother!!!! Private things that should not have left the family. He has really betrayed us... Too bad there arent do-overs...

chocolate, please remember no matter how we raised our children (adopted or not as our ED is) they are accountable for honoring their parents. This is God's commandment. We did not cause estrangement or poor treatment toward us. We did not do everything perfectly but we did what did our best at the time.

Yes, I can see that we may have given ES too much - attention, things, love and care. But isn't that what makes us a loving parent? There are plenty of children who get lots of love and attention but don't do this. They were brought up in the church and at least know and understand God's commandments. This is our EC choices. We need to remain in constant prayer for them and have faith that God is handling all things

Chocolatecat,

I think you may be right. This is a piece of my story that would support that conclusion. When ES#1 got married, due to he got "roped into a betrothal" agreement by lies and manipulation from our at that time Pastor who is now ES#3 FIL...and the girl's family also knew ES was on the rebound due to Pastor's lies that broke up a previous serious relationship, the marriage got off to a rocky start from the honeymoon due to ES and DIL not a good match.

First indication of this was they were back a day early from honeymoon, and at our home from that point on due to living close by. After 6 months of having DIL in my home 3 days a week because she was "lonely and crying for her sisters and her mother" all day while ES was at work, she did not drive, so I had to go get her at the request of my son and he would come by after work, I'd feed them, they'd lay around and watch tv while I cleaned up the dishes and then control the tv and life in general at my home for 6 months.

DH and I were learning the ropes then of being FIL and MIL and enjoying having a daughter in the family, she was also pregnant soon after marriage, and you all know the rest of the story...I was too afraid of offending them to speak up that yes...they were way too "familiar" at our house and not leaving and cleaving like the Bible says they were to do...I see now that God had a good reason for that verse too!

When DH finally suggested the verse that says to leave and cleave...because DIL is one of 12 kids and they all live in each other's back pocket 24/7 and DIL's father and mother get to control every aspect of their lives....DIL took what we did and ran to mommy and daddy and end result was that I got a 2 hour lecture from DIL's father about being petty and small and DIL started her campaign with ES of lies of how badly I had treated her those 6 months while he was a work and the first period of estrangement was birthed with the spirits of strive and division being planted in our family in that marriage.

So yes, for me "familiarity" was a huge factor in our estrangement with ES#1.

Very good point Chocolatecat and food for thought for my day!! God bless you for sharing this!!

Paws- that is what we experienced too. Our ES was so quick to betray family confidences, and looking back we were too trusting of him. We only feel that way about this EC and not the other two. He always wanted to be in the know about everything and we entrusted him with too much. He's used some of it against us now for the past year with gf, siblings and other family. We always thought we had his loyalty but he turned on us so quickly. The biggest problem is that he misrepresents us and our intentions. He never matured to the point of understanding our heart on matters. We always thought he did/would. Our mistake.

lindajoan - this is such a huge learning curve for me! I think I'm trying to figure out what not to do in the future so we/I don't repeat the same mistakes. Not that we can go back but going forward we will always be much much more guarded about what we tell friends and family. Much more!

whyonlychild - this is the totally confusing oxymoron of this whole situation. Your kids are your family. Family is the inner circle, they are supposed to know how much you love and sacrifice for them and have your back to others when others don't understand you or your family. We are supposed to defend each other to the outside world. How many times we did this for our EC. They were like aliens when they became our children and we defended them to everyone. Explaining their behavior or not explaining. Holding their bio family secrets for them from all inquirers. I could go on.....I guess this is why it might be so hard for me and DH right now too. We defended and protected them like bears when they came to us and for years and they turned so easily and quickly on us. I do believe the weight of it is on them because they did not have to go this way. Just a big aftermath to deal with now rather than the big happy family we thought we'd have. :(

lostall3 - I had the thought a few weeks ago something like "they don't want us to interfere, but then they are upset if we are not involved". Kind of darned if you do, darned if you don't. You were there for your ES and DIL and they totally turned on you. I am learning from your story and mine that what ever happens in the future we are going to keep an arms length between us and our kids/EC. Now I know that ours will turn on us so quickly for gfs etc. I always thought we'd be really involved with our adult kids in the future but now all we would even want is a polite relationship. We just can't trust them and have been burned, like you.

I am trying not to turn completely cynical but something struck me in the past year. We moved to an urban area. We encounter homeless people daily here. We decided to keep a stash of fast food gift cards to give to folks on the street who ask for $$. 99.9% of the time, these dear people overflow with thanks and God bless you's when we hand them a gift card. It became such a sharp contrast to how our ECs responded to us for buying them plane tickets to visit, holiday gifts, meals out on us 100%, etc. We could barely please them at all with all of our efforts. That was a rude awakening to us. We were/are empty-nesters and they birds returned to the nest were so rude. I'd rather spend the $$ on the truly hungry people here who it matters to and who appreciate it. Not that we do it for the appreciation but I can see that it actually blesses them and brings out gratitude in them. When we give to our ECs it brings out an entitled attitude and rudeness. We cut that out about 10 months ago now. Lessons learned.

Bottom line, our kids are spoiled ungrateful brats!

Chocolate, thank you for reminding me of something precious...my DH and I had been doing the same for homeless people we encountered back in PA before we moved home. You are so right in how much we were blessed for it. I remember one homeless vet especially that God told me to tell him God loved him when I gave him money. The look in his eyes made me cry, even now, I am crying thinking of him. My heart broke because I knew he felt like no one cared or God would not have told me to tell him that. We do not have any homeless here where I am now. I need to make it a point to find another need here and try to fill it for someone!

Paw4it, you said a mouthful....they are indeed ungrateful!!

Even a huge bag of dog or kitty food to the human society or dog pound helps.. just saying

(hugs) ladies

Our ED was very quick to turn on family with betrayal. That included family information as well as lying about family. I still can can understand it. I am not sure I ever will. Thank God for His grace to us

Paws - we've used that description many-o-time! I used to volunteer at the ASPCA and loved it.
Lost- I love supporting the vets too. Near and dear to my heart with several in my family. I'm going to keep an eye open for that opportunity too. There are also volunteer opportunities to do from home if you don't live close to the need you'd like to support.
lindajoan - I don't know which is worse, not having a relationship with our ECs or dealing with the lies and misinformation they spread about us to others. At least we have the hope of Heaven because I'd really like a re-do!

We do have eternal hope but God still has a plan for us us long as we are here. He will show us we seek Him first each day. We are not giving up hope as we desire and pray for reconciliation. We are just detaching and letting God work in His way and in His timing. Only God can change others.

Yes, indeed, lindajoan, best case scenario is for all to truly serve the Lord here and now and be a testimony to the lost. I don't know how we'd do this without the Lord.

lindajoan, that hurts so much. My son told things that he had no right to tell. I cannot believe the betrayal. I never would have believed he was capable of such cold hearted actions.

chocolatecat, I am glad you feel that way too. People seem to want to send their money thru the mail when the local animals need their support.

(hugs)

I agree Paws. It is so hurtful what our EC have done. The behavior of our ED to us in the past few years has been total betrayal to the people who did everything for her. Where is the gratefulness? I don't think our ED has a guilty conscience about it , either.

God has to work in our EC's life in His way. Only He is able.

I do believe God pulls their heart strings when we pray, but He is a gentleman and wont force them... Sometimes I wish He would.
They are very ungrateful with no conscience. I had a good son, but something happened when he laid with that girl. I guess he let the enemy in his life. She is evil.