I absolutely wonder how my ES and DIL can call themselves Christian. My ES came to the Lord, and was baptized in our church, as a young teen. He was in our church's Youth Group for over 10 years. He and my DIL attend an evangelical church. My sister once wrote me: " I wonder what ( my ES and DIL ) pray for when they are at church. Do they pray for kindness, patience, understanding?" She said this because my ES and DIL are so unable to show any of the above qualities towards me, my ES's mother. Before they went away to college, and were boyfriend and girlfriend, the 3 of us attended the same church together for 2 years! So, I have absolutely no idea how they consider themselves Christians, when my DIL was made angry by something I did, which I don't really know what it was I did, and she won't tell me, and 3 1/2 years later she still hasn't forgiven me for what I did, that I don't know what I did. How is that Christian??!! It just really confounds me on an intellectual level. Clearly they have a very different idea of what being a Christian is. Or, more likely, for reasons that I don't know they feel completely justified in how they treat me. But how they could read the New Testament, and treat me like they do, is a mystery to me. As to their salvation, I just don't know. I guess I feel like really only God knows if a person is saved. It's hard to see my ES and DIL going against direct sayings from Jesus, from the Bible, but I guess I feel like I am not qualified to know if they are truly saved. But I wonder how they can call themselves Christians, when the word forgiveness is not in their vocabulary, that I wonder about a lot. I think that my senior pastor, who was my son's fantastic Youth Pastor, believes there is always a chance at salvation, as long as you are alive. I know he follows all of his youth on Facebook and prays for them, and tries to reach out to each of them periodically, even if they don't respond. He told me he had texted my ES, and my ES didn't answer, and I was just mortified, but my Pastor tells me it's not my fault my 27 year old ES didn't respond to him, and that he will never hold against me what my ES does. But yeah, I am constantly amazed that my ES and DIL can make the decisions they make and still consider themselves Christian. But I think re: our EC's salvation, all we can do is pray for them.

my daughter made a profession of faith at a young age, she was very active in church, played the piano, loved Tuesday night visitation time, helped lead a youth Bible Study, dedicated her life to become a missionary, applied and accepted into a Christian College, and then turned from it all, including her dad and I. I do not recognize my own child's behavior. She was my best friend. I miss her.

we now have a total understanding of 1 Peter 5:8, "Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour."

and we look forward to our Romans 8:28 moments for these children. "And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose."


This is from a site called got questions.org

Question: "What was the reason behind Peter's denial of Jesus?"

Answer: The story of Peter’s threefold denial of Christ is found in all four Gospel accounts: Matthew 26:69–74, Mark 14:66–72, Luke 22:55–62, and John 18:15–18, 25–27. But why would the chief of the disciples deny even knowing Him? There were two main reasons why Peter denied Jesus: weakness and fear.

Peter’s denial was based partially on weakness, the weakness born of human frailty. After the Last Supper, Jesus took His disciples to the Garden of Gethsemane to await His arrest. He told them to stay awake and pray while He went off to pray alone. When He returned to them, He found them sleeping. He warned Peter to stay awake and pray because, although his spirit might be willing, his flesh was weak. But he fell asleep again, and, by the time the soldiers had come to arrest Jesus, it was too late to pray for the strength to endure the ordeal to come. No doubt his failure to appropriate the only means to shore up his own weakness—prayer—occurred to him as he was weeping bitterly after his denials. But Peter learned his lesson about being watchful, and he exhorts us in 1 Peter 5:8, “Be on the alert, because your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.” Peter’s weakness had caused him to be “devoured” momentarily as he denied his Lord because he hadn’t been prepared through prayer and he underestimated his own weakness.

A second reason for Peter’s failure was fear. To his credit, although all the others had fled (Mark 14:50), Peter still followed Jesus after His arrest, but he kept his distance so as not to be identified with Him (Mark 14:54). There’s no question that fear gripped him. From the courtyard, he watched Jesus being falsely accused, beaten, and insulted (Mark 14:57–66). Peter was afraid Jesus would die, and he was fearful for his own life as well. The world hated Jesus, and Peter found that he was not prepared to face the ridicule and persecution that Jesus was suffering. Earlier, Jesus had warned His disciples as well as us today, “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first” (John 16:18; cf. Matthew 24:9). Peter quickly found he wasn’t nearly as bold and courageous as he had proclaimed, and in fear he denied the One who had loved him.

We might well wonder why Jesus allowed Peter to fail so miserably and deny his Lord three times that night. Jesus revealed to Peter that Satan had asked for permission to sift Peter like wheat (Luke 22:31). Jesus could have easily protected Peter and not allowed Satan to sift him, but Jesus had a higher goal. He was equipping Peter to strengthen his brothers (Luke 22:32). Not only did Peter strengthen the other disciples, but he became the pillar of the early church in Jerusalem, exhorting and training others to follow the Lord Jesus (Acts 2). And he continues to this day to strengthen us through his epistles, 1 and 2 Peter. As with all our failures, God used Peter’s many failures, including his three denials of Christ, to turn him from Simon, a common man with a common name, into Peter, the Rock.

Yes, we are human and we are not judging when questioning the salvation of our EC. The Bible tells us to try the spirits and we will know them by the fruits they bear. (shortened version)
We are from the "old school" of learning where we were taught to respect our parents, elders, etc. I am sure we all have tried teaching our children the same values. BUT, we are living in a different world thanks to laws regarding prayer, abuse, etc. and our ways are certainly not that of today's ways. We live in a ME generation.
Lately, I have been caught up watching reruns of the Walton's. In those days there was still respect for family and the Ten Commandments had not reached their expiration date! There are so many churches today trying to say because they are not in the New Testament, they are to be dismissed. God FORBID! I believe they are the foundation of our living a good moral life.
Sorry, got off the subject!
My response to you is.........Do not compromise and do not try and validate their actions. Keep the prayers going up and stand firm.
By the way, I do know how you feel...... My ES dissociated himself from me 3 yrs ago shortly after becoming an ordained minister and now pastors a church. He told me he has scripture to back up his actions for not wanting me in his life, but has never produced the evidence.
I often wonder what his sermons are about..... Forgiveness?? I have asked him for forgiveness not even knowing what I had really done wrong. Love? I don't think so. The list goes on and yet he believes he is in God's will. This only goes to show how powerful and deceiving our enemy really is.
If we do not question our children's actions and yes, even salvation... how would we know how to pray?
I choose to pray that his heart be softened and eyes opened to the truth. I pray for myself to examine my OWN heart and let me be convicted of any wrong doing or behavior.

Keep pressing forward . Jesus came to give us life and more abundantly. Satan comes to rob, steal, and destroy! In knowing who to blame, keep your eyes upon Jesus and he is committed to see US through.
AND GOD CAN DO ANYTHING BUT FAIL!
My prayer is..... May God Bless US all with a sound mind, a soft heart, and the love of God that we may hold fast on his promises and answer our prayers to restore back to us what the devil has stolen.

Just my youngest ever expressed an interest or curiosity about God. My middle son, who claims to be atheist, says he never believed & that I crammed Christianity "down his throat". He said he hated going to church. I have begun to think maybe its a brain abnormality from birth? He weighed 11 lbs when he was born & was a forceps baby. It took weeks for his little head to go back to normal. I have always wondered if something happened to him during birth. I was in labor for 72 hours & it took 4 hours to deliver him. This is why I demanded a C-section with my youngest. My middle son is also very intelligent, always got good grades, so Im not sure if my theory has any merit.

Gordos, you make an interesting point. I have four children, but I did have complications with son #2 (ES). I had a sudden, very bad hemmorage when I was only 8 weeks pregnant with him. The ultrasound revealed half of my placenta had detached and there was a very large clot behind it. The doctor said I would most likely miscarry, but if I DID carry to term, the baby would "probably be ok". Well obviously I had him, and he was 7 pounds, 10 ounces, and seemed normal, and went on to be very bright and so forth. But I have always wondered if maybe there was something defective and my body was trying to take care of it "nature's way". I know that sounds far-fetched, but I have wondered about it. I never had any problems with my other three.

Our ED made a profession of faith and attended many youth groups. She served the Lord on many worship teams and was a soloist. Sadly, the enemy snatched her away from God and the family. I know God used ungodly people, and the bad decisions of our ED, and even her mental problems but I really blame the enemy.

The question as to how our EC could do this if they are saved is one we leave to God. I do believe that doing what they have done to parents does not line up to God's Word and I do not see how they could be used of God during estrangement. Our ED (23) would not be permitted to sing in a church if the pastor of the given church knew the true story. Sadly, that happened with Her ministry after estranging. She lost it all. Of course, our ED and all of our EC could live a lie and not tell those they minister to the truth. Correct?

Holding on in faith that God is not finished with our EC, yet. God is able to do all things.

poodlegirl, I have always wondered if it's genetic too. My whole family, on both sides were Catholic. But his dad didn't really have any beliefs & never went to church. He bashed the Catholics to my 2 sons. I wondered too, if maybe blood flow was interrupted to a certain part of his brain during labor. I guess Im reaching for a reason to explain it. The sad thing is, my grandson will grow up in a house with no mention of God or going to church. I will do what I can to help, but there is only so much I CAN do. I asked my priest if he would baptize my GS, & he wouldn't. The parents have to show some effort to take the child to mass, teach them about God, etc..I cross my GS with holy water every time he comes to my house. I also think his dad's traumatizing him & treating him so badly is part of the reason he doesn't believe.

My ED followed the Lord all her life, and was baptized by her dad at age 17. She always participated in church youth events, went through a summer with Teen Missions at age 15, and following high school, completed the discipleship program offered by Youth With a Mission (YWAM). Today, she would still call herself a Christian, but has walked away from evangelicalism, calling it too restrictive. I believe, deep in my heart, that she knows the way she treats us in wrong. I believe that of all our EC, especially those who have a faith background. The Holy Spirit is in the business of convicting all of us of our sin and this Hound of Heaven is not about to let our EC go, regardless of whether they believe they are Christians. My ED's birth experience was totally normal. My first-born son, however, had a very, very difficult start in life and almost died the day he was born. He is our miracle baby. However, of our three children, he is the one with the greatest devotion to the Lord. Not saying a bad birth experience couldn't be a factor, just not in our case.

I often think of the Parable of the Sower from Matthew 13 in regard to our EC and their salvation/faith. The seed falls on all kids of places - the path, the rocks, the thorns, the good soil - but only took root in the good soil. The seed grew temporarily in the rocks and thorns but died off quickly. My EC fall into the category of the ones where seed fell in the rocks and thorns. Two of them at least have had times in their lives where they were serving the Lord gung-ho but their enthusiasm quickly faded and they fell away. I don't know what that means for their salvation. I think that in their hearts they still believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, but Matthew 7:21-23 is worrisome if you fall in that category.
I have an old friend who I used to pray with, do Bible study with and who used to lead worship and go on mission trips. I would only see her every few months because she lived 2 hours away. The last time I saw her she renounced her faith in Jesus being the Son of God and said she does not believe it. It was truly one of the biggest shocks of my life. She turned, and I do not believe she will be in Heaven no matter what previous commitments she made, unless she returns. I do believe you can lose your salvation, but I'm glad that God will be the only one to determine that. All we can do is make sure we do not fall into any "gray" area ourselves.

James 2:19 also...

My ES is not a christian, nor was he baptized as a child. I really regret not doing this. He knows the doctrine and who Jesus is. I hope and pray that the Lord can draw him in , and I also worry about my daughters and parents who are not saved.

This is, I think, the most heartbreaking part of all of this. Will I not see him in Heaven? I was brought up southern Baptist, and was taught "once saved, always saved". I now attend the Methodist church, but really deep down I just consider myself a Christian, not thinking "any one church" can save you. I wanted to get that right out there. My ES and DIL are calling themselves Catholic, but I go to a non denominational Bible study every week that has several Catholics in it and I know they believe in forgiveness and honoring one's parents. The leader herself is Catholic, and is the kindest, most Christ-loving soul I ever met. I wonder that since he obviously has mental problems, maybe God can somehow "fix" this and he can be saved anyway? This is just heart wrenching!

I do not think we will see those who reject Christ in heaven but I think we should still pray constantly for their salvation.

So true. We pray for those who need the Lord. Jesus saves!