Hi Natasha,

If my time on here has taught me anything it is that there is such a wide range of responses and experiences with infidelity, and that there are no steadfast "rules" or right or wrong way to feel or respond (with the exception of violence, abuse, or manipulation - that is always wrong, both from the CS and the BS - and not what I include in my sense of "respond") to the discovery of an affair. I have also learned that there is a selection bias on this site, where the folks that are prone to come on here to discuss on the infidelity group and sometimes in the CA group as well are more often those who carry the deepest hurts and wounds and struggle the most to heal or move on.

So, with that long caveat, I see you need some major support as you are going through a really hard time and it really seems like your husband is very confused in his own right, and may also be leading you along, and on an uncertain path to boot. A lot of people seem to be busy or slow on here lately, and I'm sorry you haven't gotten more of a response. I saw in your other posts that you also asked about "closure". I think closure is a wonderful thing, and should be attempted and allowed more often as it CAN do a lot of good, BUT it is also confusing to attempt, I imagine, as feelings are still so strong and unsure, and often the BS (or BSs) are so hurt and stunned that they can't process it either. If a CS and their AP are sincere about ending the affair then closure, (I define it roughly as talking once or a few times for a very short period of time to be civil people and end things/say goodbye/commit to NC/etc.,) not only could be hugely beneficial, it could set the stage for more prompt healing. In reality, not many people could handle the idea, (I know my BS couldn't and I am pretty sure that my AP's BS couldn't either) and to be fair, when an affair comes to light so suddenly there is a serious sense of confusion and no one involved knows what to do (didn't learn this in school, nor did we plan for it!). Going strict No Contact seems to be the most accepted method, and that doesn't provide guidelines for or a option for "closure". So, I wish it were possible, and I can see how it could help everyone (CSs and BSs) on the path to healing, but it is more likely a rare thing in the world, and even rarer to read about on this support site.

In your case, with this new post, it doesn't seem like your husband really wanted closure after all. You mentioned the idea of "having your cake and eating it too" and I really dislike and disagree with the use of this phrase as something that is always negative - Yes, people can be selfish and uncaring to those they "say" they care about, and that is not good, but at the same time is it possible to have a win-win situation for all? And the key word there is "ALL"! In general, we are taught that there is only one person for us, but in truth that isn't the case for everyone, or even most people, and is it really fair to ask one person to be everything, always, to just one person they commit to? So, enough philosophy, your husband is torn with his desire for you and for the OW. The OW has made it clear (are you sure?) that she is not interested in sharing him, and you are tinkering with the idea of an open marriage but made it pretty clear that you really don't like the idea or aren't comfortable with it for the sake of your heart and pride. Bottom line, if you aren't comfortable with it, then don't accept it from him. For me, I know that my heart is big and I can love, and still do love, many people, my AP included with former ex's prior to my marriage, but they are no longer in my life. I will always love them. I often imagine and remember and find joy in my time with them, including sexual memories. I would love to have an open marriage where I remain fully committed to my husband, for always no matter what, but where I could still love my AP or anyone else that I grew close to (though, I do agree with the cultural expectation somewhat, it is hard to find someone that really loves you and where you really love them deeply - very very rare, but still not confined to one only). BUT, I won't pursue that, unless and until my husband is comfortable with the idea (which I doubt will happen, because the affair hurt his heart and pride so much, and because sex was always tied to insecurity for him).

I will say that the idea of "his need to connect with his AP has nothing to do with his love, commitment or desire for me" is something I can relate to. For me, the affair was separate and apart from my relationship with my husband, although my AP was also like a relational counselor to me and actually was helping me with my marriage, and I with his - though post-affair, that is actually a sore spot and hard to believe since the affair itself is against the marriage by definition, but though the contradiction appear there, the truth in intent and partial effectiveness is still there. So, my story and experience is different (no two are alike!), but hopefully it gives you some sense of understanding.

I will say that in your case, your husband does sound very confused and may not be being honest with himself, you, or the OW. Though he said some of things similar to my experience, I am not as confident, given how the OW has reacted and how he is treating you, that all is ok here. Keep talking with him, but YOU have to ask yourself what YOU need and want, and can he provide that you? Some folks don't have open marriages, per se, but have complete acceptance of spouse's lovers - is that something you can accept? Be open to listening to him, loving and understanding with him; be open to new ideas and growth for yourself; but above all, be aware and don't let him hurt you more or walk all over you. We at this site can offer ideas and experiences, but only you know what the full story is and what you can handle and what you want!! - and yes, be kind to him but please still put yourself on a pedestal (not the "I'm better than you" self-righteous one, but the "I'm wonderful, and valuable, and not going to let anyone walk all over me" pedestal) and stand tall on it through this difficult time. If your heart is in a good place, a loving place, then you can follow that. Ask of him, is his heart in a loving and good place, and maybe he can love more than one person and is just really really loving, or is he being manipulative and selfish or caught in lust? or some version in between those two? Be careful, too, as you ask those questions. This isn't easy, and falling into judging will do no one any good.

I wish you the best, stay strong, and move forward with a loving, though healing, heart.

Thank you Peace! Great advice.

What I’m struggling with the most is understanding his perspective. And whether he’s playing me or sincere. A few times since day he’s made comments about feeling trapped in our marriage - an awful thing to hear. He’s back tracked that since, but the sting lingers.

He is extremely confused and stuck. Got himself into a situation that he can’t seem to correct.

Super difficult to be your loving, best self when you feel rejected, hurt, and “not enough”. I’m trying to think differently and keep an open heart and open mind, but it’s tough.

I’m happy to hear that others share his perspective. That he
might still actually value me, respect me, love me, and might care if he loses me.

Thanks again for your encouragement. Have a wonderful holiday!

I didn't read all "Peaces" comment but I'll throw in my 2 cents. To put it simply your H is in what we call "the fog". Unfortunately you have 2 choices...#1, wait around until the fog lifts & he realizes what a stupid idiot he's been. #2, force the decision....it's either you or her. That's it! He can't have his cake & eat it too which may send him running to her but eventually he will come back to you. The question is....will you want him back. He has to understand you have a choice too.

He must think he's some kind of god to think it's up to him. Sorry, but I'd kick his ass to the curb.

Yes, he is very fogged up and in the end this will run it’s course just as Clove says. I remember having some crazy fantasies like being able to “be friends” with Exow and seeing her every once in awhile. Ha, Once you go in as deep as he I did, you cannot just be friends. But the fogged up head is talking to the rational head. Eventually, he most likely will get to where I got. He will not want her, even as a distant friend. But, that’s for him to get figured out. I think you have put up with his arrogance long enough. Stay the 180, let him know you have options and you are watching for signs that he is hard at work on working on his marriage and pleasing you.

Thanks for the insight and advise Clove and Leaving!

I agree he’s in a fog of sorts.
But I wonder about the language used around infidelity psychology... “limerance” “fog” etc.... I’m starting to think that these words only allow us BS’s to think about the CS mindset as something other than straight up desire and/or love, same as when we all fell in love and got married. So we can tell ourselves that their new relationship is not real love and/or desire. Or at least not as real or special as the love/desire in our marriages.

But sadly I think it is the same. At least for my H. He allowed a close friendship to grow into passionate love, and is now in passionate love with two great women, and is now suffering the consequences - because his sadly monogamous, not-mormon, close-minded wife is upset. And now his OW is getting pissed that he’s still married...

So the poor guy now has to deal with 2 upset women. And asking his wife to allow him the time and space to work it out on his terms. Otherwise he won’t really be able to get over her in a real legit way. Essentially saying, I can accept his needs at this time or walk. AND, can I please stop harassing him with my annoying emotions while he works this out as he needs to. My upset-ness is only making things worse, harder for him, so can I please just chill...? Why isn’t his presence, and the love and attention I do get from him, enough??

Jeez man... really?

I only have a minute, but awhile back I posted an article that I found helpful - gave me some perspective about the emotions that both the BS and CS are working through at this time. This is hard.

What was hardest for me is that I was/am in a marriage with a really wonderful man, and while I love him, we spent many multi-year long periods of no physical intimacy, despite both of us being passionate people, because we don't have a strong physical chemistry together. So we love each other, but I am lacking in strong "sexual love" department for him, and that has always been the case. My affair came about because it was a lesson that I wasn't a dried up prune and that yes, I could feel passionate love again. So, my situation is very complicated. But the article helped.