Maria, I agree with your thoughts and ideas in some instances..... in particular,"forgiving" them "even if they haven't asked for it" and, of course,"loving" them (even when they are probably the most unloving and "prayer" is constant ("...without ceasing" as the Word says.

As we have said on these groups for years, although similar in many ways, our situations are all different, and along with that, our responses may have to be different as well. (not the "forgiveness" or the "love" or "prayer")

After many years of estrangement from my son, he recently crossed the line with his words about me in a truly hateful e-mail Calling one's mother "evil", a "cancer" and accusing me of being "evil" to my grands was definitely crossing a boundary for me. I was grateful that I was able to be in contact with Dr. Joshua Coleman (for the first time, incidentally) and he pretty much gave me a warning by his concern for my son's behavior and mental state, along with his desire to inflict pain and cruelty on me. Dr. Coleman advised me to be careful in any future attempts to try and contact him. Dear friends of mine had made similar comments after this recent e-mail and I recognize, now, that they were right and that I must stay away from my es and his family. Absolutely no more attempts at communication. I forgot to mention, that my es's comments came after my dd attempted to give my es gifts from me to his two children. My dd told me not only wouldn't es allow my grands to accept the gifts I sent, but dd said she saw a rage in her brother that she had never before seen.

So, even with regard to gift giving, we need to be careful and wise, especially if they are returned. Unfortunately, sometimes we just cannot "help in ways that don't enable" as you say. Only because each of our estrangements are so different and one shoe doesn't fit all. In fact, we could possibly cause our situations to become more severe and, possibly, dangerous if we are not wise.

My faith is strong and I love the Lord and seek Him in everything I do. There is no greater counselor for me. Once I feel God's leading, I wait for confirmation. I did receive the confirmation (which I already felt in my heart) through dear friends and then Dr. Coleman, after which, I knew that I should heed his advice. Unfortunately, the answers we sometimes receive are not always the ones we desire, however, they will get us going forward again and in the right direction.

Estrangement is the most painful thing I have ever had to deal with. Unlike death, it doesn't die, and in spite of what some people claim, the hurt is always there, it simply may not be in our thoughts all the time (which is a good thing), but it will never go away....until reconciliation or, sadly, death. And you are so right....most times, "we can't fix estrangement."

With all that being said, I know our lives are not hopeless and God truly does have a plan for us if we allow ourselves to be used by Him. That is what I am going to do. Lots of love to everyone here...........

Thank you for sharing Iron C. Yes, we all have different situation. I have learned that in all of our cases, it really isn't about us, but about our adult children and the issues they have that create estrangement.

Good posts all.

Maria, I loved the wisdom in your post..

I did send out Christmas gifts to ES, his wife and three daughters..not knowing what would happen. The day after Christmas I called his cell phone and it went to voice mail.. I just said I wondered if they got the box since it would have been delivered during the day when they aren't home.. he texted back and said yes they got the gifts, thanked me, and wished us all a Merry Christmas.. and nothing more was said. We did not receive anything from them but that's okay. A mother's heart wants to give gifts, and I am thankful they didn't send them back.

That's pretty good, Nora!

Alana2, it is good when I think of what some here at DS are going through...and then my estrangement situation doesn't seem so bad, it could be worse! And here I thought the fact that they haven't participated in any family gatherings for so many years was bad.. our hearts have been broken so many times. And most of the time we didn't hear anything when we sent gifts and cards so we wondered if they went straight into the trash.

Last fall DH broke all ties with ES, told him he's cutting him out of our will.. ES said he is NEVER EVER coming here to see us, and his daughters will not either.. I thought for sure that would be the last straw for ES but nothing has really changed.. he keeps us at a distance but usually does communicate a little bit, never more than is necessary. So I struggled about the issue of gifts, not wanting to push the issue further and knowing how devastating it would be if they were sent back.. it was a gamble but in the end I did send a small gift and a gift card to all of them.. (I sent slippers to ES, it felt good to buy them).. so there we are, nothing changed..

but we made it through Christmas.. WHEW!

ES's birthday is coming up next week.. I looked for a birthday card and you know how nothing really fits this situation? After all, we know nothing about him really, he's not kind and thoughtful "in so many ways".. and all that nice stuff.. So I found one has a cartoon character on the front, and it says "They say insanity is hereditary".. and inside it says.. "You are so screwed! Happy Birthday anyway" I debated about sending it to him or not.. but today I sent it out with a little *wink* ..

Getting daring in my old age :-)