There are definitely some people who take any criticism of the AA program as a personal attack. This board is not very active right now (understatement) but it has always been a place where people can discuss any topic about alcoholism without worry.

Let's see if we can wake this group up...

Yeah, and I only suggested that AA might be improved by revising and updating their 12 Step approach a bit. After all, even the Bible was revised once! I was really shocked to see how many people in the discussion group took the "I don't even want to talk about it" stand and go right to accusing me of attacking AA rather than wanting to discuss the actual issues. Seems more like a cult would react to any criticism. Now I can understand why I am seeing so many authors on the subject of alcohol addiction who take a negative stand on the AA approach.

I have mixed thoughts on AA. On one hand, I hate the dogma, think it is outdated, and that many members are fanatics. There also problems with the group dynamics -- IMO being an ex drunk does not make you qualified as a counselor, and that is the role many sponsors take. From a personal standpoint I find the meetings incredibly depressing, and if I thought that I would have to attend regulary to stay sober, I would rather drink. Also the 12 steps are in conflict with my personal beliefs. This all sounds like a pretty strong condemnation of AA. But it isn't. There's another side for me as well.

I have several relatives in AA and it is helping them. Having an in person support system can make the difference for some, and AA meetings are every where and easily accessible. Also not all AA groups are the same. I went to one meeting where I was totally creeped out and others full of reasonable and supportive people.

For the most part I am not that interested in AA, but I do worry that it is so pervasive and pushed onto so many, that if an individual sees that it will not help them, they might get discouraged and think they are trapped in drinking hell without a way out.

AA did not work for me and looking back at my experiences I really believe that AA kept me drinking. Not trying to lay the the blame on AA. I was the one that kept drinking. It was because I was trying to use a program that conflicted with my own personal beliefs.

Not all medications work for all people and some medications can be dedly to some. AA works for some but not for everyone.

Hello and Welcome.

I used to come here a lot when I was struggling.
It was always a great group.

I am sorry to hear you got beat up on the other board. Some old timers get very upset and protective of AA.
I was in AA a long time ago then switched to Smart Recovery.

I will try and pop back in her more often.

OTM

I have an old friend who credits AA for saving her life. While we really don't talk much about it, she appears to be very much bonded to the group. It seems as though if you attend on a regular basis for a long time and do attempt to work yourself through the 12 steps that you would be pretty well indoctrinated into the cult. And then someone like me comes along and shakes the very foundation!

Actually, I have read a lot of articles and books lately that more-or-less condemn the AA approach and credo as both outdated and demeaning to the membership. Yet they still seem to be the go-to organization when most people think about alcohol addiction recovery programs and support groups. I do like the idea of a place where you can interact with others and discuss alcohol addiction, but I have yet to find an organization or discussion group where the subject can be freely discussed without any sacred cows. Hope this is it!

Hi Buck

You might also want to take a look at Smartrecovery.org
Good things there too!

OTM

SMART recovery is pretty cool. It's almost 180 degree polar opposite of AA. It's based on cognitive methods, science and
common sense logic as opposed to faith healing. There are a few issues they need to work out but it's a good organization and they seek to learn more instead of relying on some whacked dogmatic text from the prior century. I've met some of the people from their home office and was interviewed by them for their fall on-line FUNdraiser two years ago. Nice people and their empathy, compassion and intent is where it should be.
They also have on-line groups as well.
Most importantly, they don't believe in "Recovering" "One day at a time" for ETERNITY!!!! They actually encourage people to recover, put their past behind them and move on with their lives....Who knew? LOL

I'm here. I also post on the other board just because this one seemed so dead. I've made a lot of nice friends there and if some of them got sober via AA, then power to them. I now try to let the heavy-handed comments roll off my back.

I was a problem heavy drinker for many, many years. I finally got sober on my own. I think alcoholism is a disease and vulnerability CAN be hereditary. (There is problem drinking on both sides of my family.) I believe in God and I have found DS to be a great source of comfort and support.

That all said, AA never appealed to me. Hell, I even got involved in Moderation Management online for a while before I'd go to AA. My bias against AA is that I feel like it "punishes" people for being ill (if you choose to believe that) or having a problem. I don't like labels and to be beaten into humility and reminded every week (or day or hour or whatever) that you are an alcoholic, weak, powerless, etc. I don't agree with a lot of (well most of) the 12 steps.

Somebody pointed out that just because somebody is sober doesn't necessarily qualify them to provide what I consider to be medical advice to other people. (I understand that AA frowns on people using mental health medications, pain meds, etc.) That's ridiculous and potentially dangerous. I think it's fine to share experiences, but give/take what you can, then MOVE ON. I see no point in sitting around hours on end rehashing the same old stuff. I guess that's what you do. I don't know, are there ever any successful progress stories? It seems like there is an endless supply of reward chips to keep you hooked into attending.

I am also a private person and don't like sharing or participating in large groups. I took my brother to an AA meeting last month (I know I've been posting WAY TOO MUCH about him on the other board.) If that was what it was going to take to get him to a meeting, I'd do it. (Also, my brother is an extreme extrovert and LOVES to talk about himself, so AA seems like a good fit -- for him.) Anyway, it wasn't AA's fault that nobody else was there and the one fellow who showed up tried to run a "first step" meeting. He immediately gave me the hairy eye when I told him that I got and continue to stay sober on my own. My brother is a cook and I thought the AA guy was going to crap his pants when my brother said something about hoping to get to the point where he would be able to add ONE can of beer (or wine) to something he was preparing and not be tempted to drink. (Note to brother: If you stick with AA, NEVER EVER make that kind of remark. You'll get burned at the stake -- or steak?!)

So, my point with that is I don't care for the "AA way or the highway" attitude and it's really irritating when it comes across on the other board. Just to be petty, I get very weary of hearing the cutesy sayings like "put a plug in the jug," "in the cups," "the (hallowed) rooms of AA." I also hate how the end of every post advises the person seeking feedback to "get thee to a meeting." (Well, I hate even worse, "get your ass to a meeting.") How inviting is that?

OK. That's my piece. Hope this board gets more traffic.

Darn. I just spent 30 minutes typing a very reasoned analysis of AA and somehow managed to erase the entire thing with an errant swipe of a pinky. Anyway, turning to the original question, in my mind alcohol addiction is exactly that. No different than any other drug addiction. It is no more cunning than cocaine, no more powerful than heroin, no more seductive than meth. If drugs were just as available, legal and socially acceptable, indeed socially mandated, as is alcohol, the addictions would be indistinguishable. Alcohol would no longer enjoy a special status compelling us to to consider we have a disease for which there is no cure and from which we are predisposed to suffer. Nope. We would just be drug users that progressed to addiction.

That is pretty much my perspective as well. How much do you think the alcohol industry influences the "safe in moderation" theme? It almost seems to me as though AA buys into that theme as well when I hear folks say things like "I wish I could drink but I know I can't because I am an alcoholic".

I like this AA discussion - and I agree, if it works for you then AWESOME for you!

That does not mean it will work for me and that does not mean I am in denial of my problem.

I tried AA and it felt like everyone one was pushing for me to label myself as an "alcoholic' and if I did not then I had no hope of recovery and I was "obviously" in denial.

I am sure that is not the experience of other meeting or other people - that is how I felt when I attended, whether that was intentional or not.

I agree with superstar on 2 points. 1- the magic pinky erase tactic always happens when you have made an amazing point (never when you are drunk emailing or Facebooking- just kidding) and 2- I see it as an addiction and like all addictions they are based in an obsessive/compulsive behavior.

I am not saying it is not a disease, I just think the disease is an extension of OCD... you obsess and then you compulsively do something.... right?

And for me, if it is just a behavioral disorder, then it can be corrected, by not drinking.... I think it is strange that use the term alcoholic - if someone has a peanut allergy we do not call it the "peanut disease"...

I think that we have a reaction to alcohol that makes us more inclined to abuse it, if we have OCD tendencies. And just because I don't label myself - does not mean I do not recognize my problem and want recovery and sobriety.

Just my 2 cents