Very on point. The fact that AA is a "recovery" program where nobody actually recovers is pretty telling. Being told that you were born an alcoholic and will always be an alcoholic besides being horribly disempowering, is also a lie.
Seriously, what kind of recovery program doesn't have an exit plan or the goal of putting your dependency issue behind you and moving on with your life. Only one that I know of. AA has no end game.

The 12 Steps are the religion of the AA church. You can waffle on about the it's "spiritual" not religious thing all you want but it's just an exercise of spin doctoring. You don't have to any further than Steps 3, 6 & 7 to see how absurd that is.

Not only is AA nothing more than faith healing through petitioning the Lord with prayer in the aforementioned Steps 6&7, it's conditional at that. You have to "practice these principles" in all of your affairs forever and ever and then on top of that, are expected to do missionary work to increase the size of the flock or herd. Principles? What principles?
Oh, and everything is only a "suggestion"...Really?
How about this gem from page 174 of the AA instruction guide, The Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions; page 174; "Unless each AA member follows to the best of his ability our "suggested" Twelve Steps to recovery, he almost certainly signs his own death warrant." !!!!!!! Really?
Sure, they're only suggestions, as long as you don't mind DYING!!!
And what "recovery" everyone is conditionally "recovering" "One day at a time" for ETERNITY.....

Pshhhh, People deserve and are capable of so much more.
Rant over.
Peace out,
Rolf

That's why I like Smart Recovery!

The people who rant about AA and how you aren't sober if you are not working the steps are people who need to hang on to something or they will fall back into the crap they are trying to drag themselves out of. I rarely go to meetings and I am still sober after 7 yrs. I used AA to get me a life where I could be a contributing member of society. I was an atheist before AA, and I attend church regularly. Pg 174 is a reminder to me that if I start drinking I could be right back where I was. In my early sobriety I would have given anything to be able to drink like a normal person. Right now I am sober, clean happy in life and I don't worry about the death and dying they talk about in the book of AA. I am working on my future with hope of a good life and faith in what I have learned about myself. My mind was a terrible thing to live in. Now I'm not so bad!!!

It seems to me that part of the issue some people have with relapsing is that they too are thinking they would "give anything if I could drink like a normal person". Once I looked more closely at alcohol addiction I came to the conclusion that there is no such thing as a "normal drinker". There are people who drink less, and there are people who drink more, but they all drink for the same reason.... they drink to feel drunk. They are all normal people when they start drinking, and they are all normal people at every stage of their addiction. People get addicted to alcohol because generally speaking, most people enjoy the feeling of being drunk. And some of us like the feeling so much that we keep drinking to the level of seriously poisoning ourselves in an attempt to keep feeling that way. Very much the same ill logic that keeps people addicted to a variety of substances. The big difference with alcohol is that our western society condones and actually encourages the use of it.

After a while I wasn't drinking to feel drunk, I was drinking to numb my self from myself. I have found that when most peoples lives suck they do something to make themselves feel better??? Get drunk, high, do something foolish, buy stuff, put other people down in an attempt to feel superior. I also did not take responsibility for my life. I drank because I was me. People drink or take substances in most every corner of the world. Mongolia uses fermented mares milk. Yuck. You are right about society condoning alcohol, it's a big money maker.

Buckstag- I do not agree that people all drink for the same reason and that is to feel drunk. I know many people who have one or two glasses of wine for the social aspect of it and has nothing to do with catching a buzz. It is us problem drinkers who think like that and that very thinking is the problem!

I'm not in AA and never really connected with that program. But I can't "pile on" and talk in negative terms about AA either; because it works for a lot of people. But one size does not fit all.

I've never been very good at being absorbed by groups. But I know people who's lives have been saved by AA.

True enough Rick- most people can have a drink or two and that's enough. Then there's those of us who feel the need to "keep going" because if 2 is good, then 6 or 8 must be MUCH better!

Rick 8, when you say many people drink for the "social aspect" of it, what exactly does that mean? If it is not about the alcohol in the wine, then why don't people fill their glasses with un-fermented grape juice and socialize that way? The fact is, the alcohol in the wine relaxes people and acts as a "social lubricant". It is this feeling of inebriation that everyone is seeking when they ingest alcohol. Sure, the alcohol contained in a couple glasses of wine will do little if any damage to most people. But I still maintain that the person who drinks a couple glasses of wine to become more "social" is using alcohol for the same basic reason everyone else does.

I know some people who can drink a couple and then leave it alone for months on end and be okay with it. I think those people would be more in line with whom Rick 8 is talking about. I also see your point of view in stating your position in that a couple of drinks is indulging in the effect of inebriation, how be it, to a lesser extent than the majority of us problem drinkers. I think where a person stands on how alcohol personally effects that person s the best gauge in determining whether they are better off without it or not, even if it is1 or 2 drinks.

Buckstag- How many parties, weddings, etc have you been where they offer grape juice? You may say they can have water. I have met many people who will have 1 or 2 glasses of wine. Many times with dinner, etc and it has nothing to do with the alcohol effect but the "ritual" so to speak.

Interesting perspective. I'm also suffered from an eating disorder as a kid. Anonymity would have allowed me to seek help; had I really believed in it. So the anonymity of any 12 step program; or group; AA or not; to me is a key factor.
As to the "cult" rhetoric, I havent found anything cult like at any of the thousands of AA meetings I've attended over the years.